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Direckshun · 05-02-2021, 09:02 AM

The idea that he has players in layered tiers is not new, of course.

But here's the problem with it: in any tier you care to look at, the most valuable positions get drafted first, because of course they should. Quarterback, tackle, wide receiver, passrusher.

The last players to be chosen in any tier are going to be the lowest value players.

Running back. Linebacker. Interior offensive line.

And here we are. That's been the Chiefs last four picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds of the draft.

It's just not a great approach when you're always at the end of the round, which the Chiefs always will be under Reid and Mahomes. You need to be able to be more flexible.

The Chiefs selected a linebacker (which we do desperately need) and a center (which we kinda needed) when there were really good players in a lower tier still on the board.

How much better is Humphrey going to be than Blythe? Really?

Because remember that when we struggle to get a passrush in December, January, and February. Remember that in the Super Bowl when the Bucs run out the exact same coverage that blanketed us the first time and we still don't have a WR2 that can break free of 1 on 1 coverage. Remember that when, god forbid, one of our corners go down with injury in week 7 and we have to watch Rashad Fenton get raked for 8 weeks.

That being said, the Chiefs did get better this weekend. They just could have gotten a lot better this weekend, with how sexy the board looked when they were up to pick.

Pick by pick reviews.

LB Nick Bolton, Missouri -- The Chiefs probably have the best linebacking corps now that they've had in a decade. Hitchens finally seems to understand the system, Gay looked really solid all year and came on until his injury, and Bolton's going to be really good. He's a smart player with limited athleticism, so really a perfect Spags linebacker. But he may be a two-down player, and I see a lot of Kawika Mitchell in him -- neither of those are deserving of the 2nd round pick we spent. C-

C Creed Humphrey, Oklahoma -- I think Humphrey has Pro Bowl upside, and honestly the Chiefs track record on 2nd round centers is stellar with Mitch Morse and Rodney Hudson. I think he's going to be a starter here for 10 years. I'd had preferred other players, but this was a good get. A-

DE Joshua Kaindoh, Florida State -- I really don't like this pick, and only talked myself into it the day of the draft because we are so desperate at the position. Kaindoh has every bit of the size you need, but he just has no feel for the game. This is a Demetrius-Harris-sized project. Harris turned out to be pretty good, but it took us four years to get there. Kaindoh may yield the same returns at a different position. D+

TE Noah Gray, Duke -- I really hope the loss of Anthony Sherman didn't mess with our heads badly enough to take this guy, as the team later was communicating he could be a flex fullback. It's hard for me to get too worked up about Gray, however, one way or the other. I think he's fine, but a poor fit, but the 5th round on was just garbage in terms of options. C+

WR Cornell Powell, Clemson -- The questions with Powell entirely will be between the ears. He is already physically maxed out and is pretty great with the ball in his hands. I imagine he will peak out in a couple seaons as a WR3 in our offense, but if the Chiefs continue to fail to find a really good WR2, he could ascend to a shrug-WR2, someone to play the position non-pathetically until we find the next Sammy Watkins. I think his ceiling is Chris Conley, which is nothing to write home about, but that's a really great get in a draft this garbage. B+

OG Tre Smith, Tennessee -- Home run. No question. This is why you don't burn $80m on a guard, or draft one in the 2nd round. Dorsey made his living finding really good guards late in the draft, and Veach has finally done it himself. Smith will not crack the lineup this year, but he's going to be our starting RG in 2022 -- bank on it. I have no idea how Veach landed this, when it was late in the 6th round and teams were just taking long snappers because there was no talent left on the board. A+

staylor26 · 05-04-2021, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief

I understand the logic, but you are missing part of the equation...Spags defense is hard to learn, who are you going to play at MLB next year to call the defense when we are forced to cut Hitchens?

Exactly. It’s easy to see why getting a year ahead of that made sense.

From December:

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

I don’t expect them to take a LB in the 1st either, but it’s still possible considering it’s still one of our biggest needs for the future.

Collins or Bolton just might be BPA.

The Chiefs, under Reid, have a history of drafting for future departures the following year. Remember, even CEH wasn’t supposed to be the starter this year. Replacing Hitchens is a lot on the mental side, so it’s possible that they could want to get ahead of it and draft their guy a year early. That way when Hitchens is gone, you have 2 good young LB’s. You could also play Gay and the rookie a lot more in subs so we don’t have to see Niemann on the field anymore and avoid Hitchens in coverage as much as possible.

Again, I agree that it’s unlikely, but it’s absolutely possible.

Honestly, I should’ve known it was more likely than I thought.

Rasputin · 05-04-2021, 11:58 AM

**** Veach for making us pick practically last in the draft every year

What the **** is his problem doesn't he know we get the best players by sucking and being at the top of the draft like when we got Eric Fisher?

htismaqe · 05-04-2021, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

Exactly. It’s easy to see why getting a year ahead of that made sense.

From December:

Honestly, I should’ve known it was more likely than I thought.

I tried to tell you guys from the second he was drafted - regardless of what he contributes in 2021, the guy is going to be your defensive signal caller in 2022 AND he's going to save the team over $10M in cap space.

I don't even care what he does in 2021, the 2022 upside was worth the pick.

staylor26 · 05-04-2021, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I tried to tell you guys from the second he was drafted - regardless of what he contributes in 2021, the guy is going to be your defensive signal caller in 2022 AND he's going to save the team over $10M in cap space.

I don't even care what he does in 2021, the 2022 upside was worth the pick.

You guys?

None of that was news to me. I totally understood the pick.

htismaqe · 05-04-2021, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

You guys?

None of that was news to me. I totally understood the pick.

I know. I was being somewhat facetious.

staylor26 · 05-04-2021, 01:38 PM

I guess Veach’s tier approach and our gaping hole at DE is why Direckshun has the Chiefs losing the SB again to the Bucs in his new mock!

htismaqe · 05-04-2021, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

I guess Veach’s tier approach and our gaping hole at DE is why Direckshun has the Chiefs losing the SB again to the Bucs in his new mock!

O.city · 05-04-2021, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I tried to tell you guys from the second he was drafted - regardless of what he contributes in 2021, the guy is going to be your defensive signal caller in 2022 AND he's going to save the team over $10M in cap space.

I don't even care what he does in 2021, the 2022 upside was worth the pick.

I'm not a big fan of our second round picks essentially redshirting, but this isn't a single year kinda thing so it makes sense. With a top heavy roster financially like KC has, sometimes, you gotta do certain things and this is getting ahead of that.

Chris Meck · 05-04-2021, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I'm not a big fan of our second round picks essentially redshirting, but this isn't a single year kinda thing so it makes sense. With a top heavy roster financially like KC has, sometimes, you gotta do certain things and this is getting ahead of that.

who said anything about redshirting?

I guarantee you both those guys play a lot if not starters day one.

When you literally have a perennial championship-caliber team, it's kind of hard to expect first year players to be day one starters; I mean the team is stacked, you're picking low in the round, etc.

But we look to have done exactly that. Humphrey will be given every chance to win that OC spot. Bolton will take Wilson's snaps, and a lot of Niemann's snaps, and next year, he'll take Hitchen's spot entirely.

htismaqe · 05-04-2021, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I'm not a big fan of our second round picks essentially redshirting, but this isn't a single year kinda thing so it makes sense. With a top heavy roster financially like KC has, sometimes, you gotta do certain things and this is getting ahead of that.

Bolton is going to play in 2021, and probably a bit more than Gay did last year.

Humphrey will likely start at least 12 games this season.

Not sure what the problem is.

htismaqe · 05-04-2021, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Bolton will take Wilson's snaps, and a lot of Niemann's snaps, and next year, he'll take Hitchen's spot entirely.

Gay is going to take Wilson's snaps. I'd be willing to bet at this point that we see a lot more of Niemann than most here want to see.

But Bolton is going to play.

kccrow · 05-04-2021, 07:56 PM

I'm in alot of agreement with RunKC and a little disagreement with staylor here.

I'm a huge proponent of drafting based on production. If a pick comes down to a player that produced versus a player that has all the athletic traits but didn't produce, I'm going to take the guy that produced every single time.

It's a reason I was much higher on guys like Joe Tryon and Ronnie Perkins over guys like Odafe Oweh and Kwity Paye. Tryon and Perkins don't lack athleticism, they just don't show that "supreme" athleticism that you see with Oweh and Paye... yet both were far more productive than either, and, really, both combined.

I want football players, not track athletes. That's one reason I gave Bolton an A grade and have been high on him through the process. Bolton is a football player. He makes the plays and the hits, he aligns and diagnoses, all that. He doesn't run a 4.40 as an MLB but he's ahead of the curve with a 4.58 as an LB.

O.city · 05-04-2021, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Bolton is going to play in 2021, and probably a bit more than Gay did last year.

Humphrey will likely start at least 12 games this season.

Not sure what the problem is.

Unless Humphrey starts the season at c I doubt he plays as we know Reid doesn’t change unless injury.

I’d imagine he starts the season out as the starter. He’s already so good.

We just seem to have a history of “he needs time to learn” picks recently in the 2nd round

**DaneMcCloud** · 05-04-2021, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Unless Humphrey starts the season at c I doubt he plays as we know Reid doesn’t change unless injury.

I’d imagine he starts the season out as the starter. He’s already so good.

We just seem to have a history of “he needs time to learn” picks recently in the 2nd round

Mitch Morse started immediately and I expect Creed Humphrey to do the same.

I'm looking forward to the battle for right guard between LDT, Long and Smith.

staylor26 · 05-04-2021, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

I'm in alot of agreement with RunKC and a little disagreement with staylor here.

I'm a huge proponent of drafting based on production. If a pick comes down to a player that produced versus a player that has all the athletic traits but didn't produce, I'm going to take the guy that produced every single time.

It's a reason I was much higher on guys like Joe Tryon and Ronnie Perkins over guys like Odafe Oweh and Kwity Paye. Tryon and Perkins don't lack athleticism, they just don't show that "supreme" athleticism that you see with Oweh and Paye... yet both were far more productive than either, and, really, both combined.

I want football players, not track athletes. That's one reason I gave Bolton an A grade and have been high on him through the process. Bolton is a football player. He makes the plays and the hits, he aligns and diagnoses, all that. He doesn't run a 4.40 as an MLB but he's ahead of the curve with a 4.58 as an LB.

I think you need a combination of the two. It’s not an either/or thing for me whatsoever. When you’re picking at the bottom of every single round, you sometimes have to take big swings on guys like Kaindoh, Gay, and Oweh if you want blue chippers. No risk it, no biscuit.

I’m also more comfortable doing that when you have a great coaching staff like we do on both sides of the ball.

05-02-2021, 09:02 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch	I am not a fan of Veach's "tier" approach. The idea that he has players in layered tiers is not new, of course. But here's the problem with it: in any tier you care to look at, the most valuable positions get drafted first, because of course they should. Quarterback, tackle, wide receiver, passrusher. The last players to be chosen in any tier are going to be the lowest value players. Running back. Linebacker. Interior offensive line. And here we are. That's been the Chiefs last four picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds of the draft. It's just not a great approach when you're always at the end of the round, which the Chiefs always will be under Reid and Mahomes. You need to be able to be more flexible. The Chiefs selected a linebacker (which we do desperately need) and a center (which we kinda needed) when there were really good players in a lower tier still on the board. How much better is Humphrey going to be than Blythe? Really? Because remember that when we struggle to get a passrush in December, January, and February. Remember that in the Super Bowl when the Bucs run out the exact same coverage that blanketed us the first time and we still don't have a WR2 that can break free of 1 on 1 coverage. Remember that when, god forbid, one of our corners go down with injury in week 7 and we have to watch Rashad Fenton get raked for 8 weeks. That being said, the Chiefs did get better this weekend. They just could have gotten a lot better this weekend, with how sexy the board looked when they were up to pick. Pick by pick reviews. LB Nick Bolton, Missouri -- The Chiefs probably have the best linebacking corps now that they've had in a decade. Hitchens finally seems to understand the system, Gay looked really solid all year and came on until his injury, and Bolton's going to be really good. He's a smart player with limited athleticism, so really a perfect Spags linebacker. But he may be a two-down player, and I see a lot of Kawika Mitchell in him -- neither of those are deserving of the 2nd round pick we spent. C- C Creed Humphrey, Oklahoma -- I think Humphrey has Pro Bowl upside, and honestly the Chiefs track record on 2nd round centers is stellar with Mitch Morse and Rodney Hudson. I think he's going to be a starter here for 10 years. I'd had preferred other players, but this was a good get. A- DE Joshua Kaindoh, Florida State -- I really don't like this pick, and only talked myself into it the day of the draft because we are so desperate at the position. Kaindoh has every bit of the size you need, but he just has no feel for the game. This is a Demetrius-Harris-sized project. Harris turned out to be pretty good, but it took us four years to get there. Kaindoh may yield the same returns at a different position. D+ TE Noah Gray, Duke -- I really hope the loss of Anthony Sherman didn't mess with our heads badly enough to take this guy, as the team later was communicating he could be a flex fullback. It's hard for me to get too worked up about Gray, however, one way or the other. I think he's fine, but a poor fit, but the 5th round on was just garbage in terms of options. C+ WR Cornell Powell, Clemson -- The questions with Powell entirely will be between the ears. He is already physically maxed out and is pretty great with the ball in his hands. I imagine he will peak out in a couple seaons as a WR3 in our offense, but if the Chiefs continue to fail to find a really good WR2, he could ascend to a shrug-WR2, someone to play the position non-pathetically until we find the next Sammy Watkins. I think his ceiling is Chris Conley, which is nothing to write home about, but that's a really great get in a draft this garbage. B+ OG Tre Smith, Tennessee -- Home run. No question. This is why you don't burn $80m on a guard, or draft one in the 2nd round. Dorsey made his living finding really good guards late in the draft, and Veach has finally done it himself. Smith will not crack the lineup this year, but he's going to be our starting RG in 2022 -- bank on it. I have no idea how Veach landed this, when it was late in the 6th round and teams were just taking long snappers because there was no talent left on the board. A+
Posts: 59,260

05-04-2021, 11:58 AM	#122
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Rasputin's Avatar Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks	** Veach for making us pick practically last in the draft every year What the ** is his problem doesn't he know we get the best players by sucking and being at the top of the draft like when we got Eric Fisher?
Posts: 54,959	1 0

05-04-2021, 01:38 PM	#126
staylor26 In Search of a Life staylor26's Avatar Join Date: Oct 2007	I guess Veach’s tier approach and our gaping hole at DE is why Direckshun has the Chiefs losing the SB again to the Bucs in his new mock!
Posts: 48,207	2 0

05-04-2021, 07:56 PM	#132
kccrow MVP kccrow's Avatar Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan	I'm in alot of agreement with RunKC and a little disagreement with staylor here. I'm a huge proponent of drafting based on production. If a pick comes down to a player that produced versus a player that has all the athletic traits but didn't produce, I'm going to take the guy that produced every single time. It's a reason I was much higher on guys like Joe Tryon and Ronnie Perkins over guys like Odafe Oweh and Kwity Paye. Tryon and Perkins don't lack athleticism, they just don't show that "supreme" athleticism that you see with Oweh and Paye... yet both were far more productive than either, and, really, both combined. I want football players, not track athletes. That's one reason I gave Bolton an A grade and have been high on him through the process. Bolton is a football player. He makes the plays and the hits, he aligns and diagnoses, all that. He doesn't run a 4.40 as an MLB but he's ahead of the curve with a 4.58 as an LB.
Posts: 12,622