Gronkowski announces retirement

[O.city]

Per his Instagram

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

Because Mahomes Bro

Who is Mahomes? We're talking about Gronk here!

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Dude, you've been here for 15 years, you're good.

It's the rest of your kin that wandered in here drunk before the family reunion in January that are annoying.

There a few from the Pioli era that get a pass too

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Dude, you've been here for 15 years, you're good.

It's the rest of your kin that wandered in here drunk before the family reunion in January that are annoying.

I know, but sometimes I can't resist. I really can't resist when a Chiefs fan tells me to GTFO but I see I've been a member for longer than him so I can call him n00b. Good times!

[RobertWeathers]

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

I'm speaking of 12 years in KC during his prime, since Gronk played 9 years afterall

essentially, you're saying you never followed Tony's career since you're going on sheer numbers and not continuity or issues of toxic environments

You brought up the lack of continuity at QB as a crutch and jumping to the conclusion it hurt his stats. I looked up the stats and disproved your assertion.

As I said earlier I have watched TGon play (I'm kinda old) and my conclusion is Gronk was a better blocker both run and pass and a more explosive playmaker.

You disagree with my conclusion and that is fine.

[RobertWeathers]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

So glad the Patriot fans have a place to talk during the offseason...

You guys are our #1 competition now.

The eyes of New England are now on you.

[RobertWeathers]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Only cuz Rice was stuck with those shit QBs like Montana and Young.

...and even Jerry Rice put up monster numbers with Steve Bono, Jeff Garcia and Grbac throwing him the ball.

Greatness always gets the ball .

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by RobertWeathers

You brought up the lack of continuity at QB as a crutch and jumping to the conclusion it hurt his stats. I looked up the stats and disproved your assertion.

As I said earlier I have watched TGon play (I'm kinda old) and my conclusion is Gronk was a better blocker both run and pass and a more explosive playmaker.

You disagree with my conclusion and that is fine.

Gronk better blocker no question, but all the rest nope .

essentially you're saying Gronks play wouldn't have faultered
if he went through the exact situation that Gonzalez went through.

Dude, you're deluding yourself if you believe he'd held in the same esteem and I've watch Gonzalez since college Football
and Basketball for draft curiosity.

If he did he'd be in the Antonio Gates or Greg Olson conversation.

[RobertWeathers]

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

Gronk better blocker no question, but all the rest nope .

essentially you're saying Gronks play wouldn't have faultered
if he went through the exact situation that Gonzalez went through.

Dude, you're deluding yourself if you believe he'd held in the same esteem and I've watch Gonzalez since college Football
and Basketball for draft curiosity.

If he did he'd be in the Antonio Gates or Greg Olson conversation.

My god. You make it sound like TGon played for the Browns.

So TGon is better than Gronk because he put up HoF numbers for crappy teams? Thats so arbitrary.

Are you saying Gronk's career was easy and without challenges and adversity?

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by RobertWeathers

My god. You make it sound like TGon played for the Browns.

So TGon is better than Gronk because he put up HoF numbers for crappy teams? Thats so arbitrary.

Are you saying Gronk's career was easy and without challenges and adversity?

If you watched KC in 98 to 2000 and 07 to 08 seasons Gonzalez did play with comparatively with bottom dwelling backup QBs and some shouldn't and aren't on a NFL roster.

Let see Gronk had Belichick and Brady. Brady winning a SB before the presence of Rob was on the team and when he was injured.

You can't specify that with Tony due to durability

the argumentative point has validity, and if you can't see that then you don't have the full details of each situation

[RobertWeathers]

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

If you watched KC in 98 to 2000 and 07 to 08 seasons Gonzalez did play with comparatively with bottom dwelling backup QBs and some shouldn't and aren't on a NFL roster.

Let see Gronk had Belichick and Brady. Brady winning a SB before the presence of Rob was on the team and when he was injured.

You can't specify that with Tony due to durability

the argumentative point has validity, and if you can't see that then you don't have the full details of each situation

I'm not arguing those teams sucked and he had a less optimal Qbs throwing him the ball.

What I'm arguing is when he did have very good QBs throwing him the ball he was statistically the same when crappy QBs threw him the ball.

When I watched TGon play for crappy teams he looked like the same player- which is a testament to his professionalism, leadership and work ethic.

Very good to great receivers put up the same numbers regardless of who throws them the ball.

Gronk - just like TGon could get open vs anyone at anytime which makes life much easier for an average QB.

To say Gronk had a more stable environment is true but it doesn't mean his degree of difficulty was easier or he was a lesser player. Thats crazy.

[Perineum Ripper]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Not going to argue whatever Robert Weathers is arguing, but in my view peak Gronk was the best TE there ever was. That combines not only his ridiculous pass-catching capabilities, his clutch performances in high-pressure situations, his ultra-elite end zone capabilities, as well as his terrific blocking capabilities which created matchup nightmares for defenses to deal with.

If you wanted to build a team to win one game, I'd have Gronk as my starting TE on that team.

If you're going to have me draft a TE and get an entire career out of him...well, I'm definitely going to have to think long and hard about whether I want Gronk, mostly, over 9 years, or 17 years or whatever of Tony G. That is, after all, a helluva lot longer.

One game I would take Gronk, but if I’m wanting a top tier TE for a season, Tony.

If Gronk could stay healthy I would say he was the best TE of all time, but he couldn’t. His availability is a huge factor to me on who is the best of all time. If you can’t stay on the field it doesn’t matter how good you are, you aren’t making a difference on the sidelines.

If we want to talk about who is the biggest impact per game, that’s one thing. If we are talking who is the best of all time, then availability has to be discussed as well.

[RobertWeathers]

Originally Posted by mac459

One game I would take Gronk, but if I’m wanting a top tier TE for a season, Tony.

If Gronk could stay healthy I would say he was the best TE of all time, but he couldn’t. His availability is a huge factor to me on who is the best of all time. If you can’t stay on the field it doesn’t matter how good you are, you aren’t making a difference on the sidelines.

If we want to talk about who is the biggest impact per game, that’s one thing. If we are talking who is the best of all time, then availability has to be discussed as well.

Thats fair.

[Best22]

I have no dog in this fight, but I think some fans underrate just how much Brady helps his receivers

I think peak Gronk was better, but we still have to account for superior coaching/quarterbacking and differences in the eras.

[RobertWeathers]

Originally Posted by Best22

I have no dog in this fight, but I think some fans underrate just how much Brady helps his receivers

I think peak Gronk was better, but we still have to account for superior coaching/quarterbacking and differences in the eras.

I agree and disagree. :-)

There is no question Tom made the mediocre receivers more productive.

But the generational receiving talents like Welker, Gronk and Moss made Tom's job easier. The with/without #s support this.

[Red Dawg]

I have just never been amazed by Brady. Non athletic and seems to have guys wide open a lot. He's a great leader and smart. Finds the right guy but he's had all the advantages you can have with coaching and a defense backing him up. He was awful this season and Bills defense and Fords stupidity bailed him out. Not many SB seasons were becaue of him. They were defense led.