Hamilton
 

Currently out on Disney+. The film is performed my the original cast and was recorded in 2016. Has anyone here watched it? Thoughts?

I think that this is going to open a door for Broadway to make itself more accessible to the masses. How they took a stage production, put it to film, and still having the end product feel like a stage performance was outstanding to me.

As for the musical itself... I thought LaFayette/Jefferson stole the show. The dude was phenomenal in both roles and I hope he gets more opportunities in he future. The guy, who as my wife pointed out is apparently from Glee, was AMAZING as King George.

I found that Miranda's rapping and singing was the least memorable of the main cast. His story telling abilities, though, outweigh his deficiencies as a performer and I found his use of rap, among several others styles, to tell the story of Alexander Hamilton to be inspired.

I watched an interview he did where he speaks to how Hamilton's writing prowess has lead there to be more documents written by him than any other founding father. Rap has more words per measure than any other genre of music and he chose it so he would be able to fit in so much more information to tell a more complete story.

It was excellent and not at all preachy as you might expect from a main cast that is 87% POC on the subject of the slave owning forefathers.

It was ok. Not a fan of (c)rap

Having a good time listening to "the wokes" complaining about it not being "woke" enough

Watched it over the weekend. Miranda seems to have Hamilton be the straight man and let every other character outshine him in their turn. I think that’s his intention, but it also helps that he was probably a few years older than every other cast member too.

The policy-rap battles with Jefferson were a highlight.

It’s remarkable that something so popular in this era did not spend a significant portion of its story on slavery and the popular discussion of our time when it comes to the country’s founders. And it has gotten some flak for that, and I appreciated Miranda’s careful and classy response. I suspect it makes Hamilton more than a product of its time and will be enjoyed for generations.

Must watch again with subtitles.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/19d6...itemid=8765401

I'm glad I read just these few posts if only to learn that there is rap in this production.

And to ponder if every period piece in the history of mankind should include a portion of their story on slavery and the popular discussion of our time...because, like, you know. Woke.

It’s entirely rap with varying degrees of speed.

Jonathan Groff, who played King George, is also one of the primary cast members of the Netflix series Mindhunter.

So, I've seen it live, and I've seen the recent taped production. I did enjoy it, even though there's a little too much rap for my liking, but I get it: it's kind of the point, so having a black cast sing opera would be a little bizarre. And some of the songs have a catchy little hook to them, even if it's simply them saying "Alex-ander Ham-il-ton!" or "the room where it happens".

But, ultimately, I think the thing gets an unfair boost simply because of what it is. I get it. It's black people playing historic white roles. But is that alone a reason for something to be popular? Miranda's previous big work was "In The Heights", which is a fairly mediocre and forgettably typical Broadway production. I'm all for being woke but I want a musical that actually lives up to the hype as well. If this was a white cast people would be like, "Eh." I don't care if I'm watching a bunch of Mexicans do "Phantom of the Opera". Or two lesbians doing "Romeo and Juliet". (Okay, well, maybe that one I do care.) If the production doesn't live up to the hype... I can name a bunch of musicals I've seen that deserve more praise for having music and a production that lives up to the story. Obvious choices from old like "Jesus Christ Superstar" and "Fiddler On The Roof", more recent works like "Les Miserables" and "Phantom of the Opera", even more recent works like "Kinky Boots", "Avenue Q", "The Book of Mormon", "Something Rotten"... I just think there's a bit of 'Emperor's new clothes' going on with this thing.

It's good regardless. If you don't like rap music, you can still have respect for the skill and fluidity of the lyrics, similar to Eminem, Dr. Dre, Jay-Z, etc. Is it going to be your favorite musical of all time if you don't have an affinity for rap music? Probably not, but you can still watch it, enjoy it, and at least say you've seen it. It uses more intelligent language in the lyrics than you'll find in 95% of rap music I feel. It starts off rap heavy but eventually settles into more of a musical style with strong female lead vocal performances. Lin Manuel-Miranda gets upstaged by his counterparts because out of the bunch he's probably amongst the worst actual singers of the cast, and he portrays Hamilton as a brilliant, but imperfect man. When you look at the best characters of the play I wouldn't put the Alexander Hamilton character in the top 5 of things I enjoyed about it all. By the time it's over, it's really more a story about his wife than anything and what she goes on to do. People need to let go of their anti-wokeness, or whatever term they're coining these days as a term of fear of trying something outside of their comfort zone, and just enjoy it for what it is, a well written musical with strong performances that tells a good story by non-traditional means.

King George
Aaron Burr
George Washington
The Schyuler Sisters
Hamilton's posse

Why spend my money on something I inherently don't enjoy? You mention Eminem, Dr. Dre and Jay Z as people I should respect-- to my knowledge, and I am not exaggerating-- I haven't listened to even one of their songs in it's entirety.


ETA I just read the lyrics to 'My Mom' by Eminem. It does not instill me with respect for his skill and fluidity. In fact, it confirmed my previous thoughts on the 'art' form.

that's your eminem magnum opus, the one you're going to hold as what his wordplay does?

rap god (and his insane delivery) would be my choice. however, I find others are better with wordplay (love me some childish gambino)

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i usually can't understand what they're saying when they rap

i prefer traditional musicals, like The Phantom of The Opera

and before you accuse me of racism, know that I saw a production with a black man as The Phantom

hard pass

Anybody go see it when the music hall last summer?

Honestly, Lin-Manuel Miranda just cannot !@#$ing sing. At all. He's nasal and tinny and just not a good singer. He takes away from the performance in a big way, IMO. Joseph Morales played Hamilton in KC and he was a far better singer. Perhaps not as good a performer, but close enough.

The guy that played Burr in Kansas City was just bigger and more physically imposing. It gave him a little more power in his performance than Leslie Odom had in the original cast as Burr. It created a better contrast, IMO. Again - Odom was the better performer and actor, but I liked the size/presence disparity that the guy in the live version brought.

Eliza Schuyler, OTOH, just friggen kills it from the original cast. She's incredible and clearly a step up over the live version replacement.

Most of the others were not noticeable steps up or down either way. There's something strangely offputting about the high-angle, high-def close-ups that show them sweating buckets throughout, but there's pretty much unavoidable.

But otherwise - yeah...that's the play. And intermission was only a minute long instead of an hour long necessitated by a power outage during a massive rainstorm like the live version we saw, so that was nice. I preferred the live version and when it comes back through, I'd recommend anyone who enjoyed this to go see it because a theater show really does do better in a theater most of the time, but this was a pretty good recording and re-presentation. It captured enough to be worth the time.

It's incredible. But I'm a theatre geek and had seen it twice in-person, so this isn't a new opinion.

You really can't tell the story of Hamilton and his relationship with Washington without including John Laurens. Laurens was probably Hamilton's closest friend and confidant (and...maybe lover? Weird history there). Washington trusted him a great deal as well. Dude was a congressman in his mid-20s and had he not stupidly charged a foraging party after the war was over, Laurens could've ascended to the Presidency at some point. And if you're going to include John Laurens, you pretty much have to mention his abolitionist tilt. It was a damn big deal to him which was pretty incredible as the son of a wealthy slaveholder. There's no easy way to side-step that without botching that story.

There's really little 'woke' about Hamilton...I mean, apart from casting minorities in every major role and putting white dudes in the 3 'nerdy guy' spots like it's a Martin Lawrence movie.

But as far as the storytelling goes, it's not heavy-handed at all. There are a couple of moments where they speak to Laurens and his efforts and creating a black regiment and/or freeing slaves (I mean c'mon - the used 'manumission' in a wrap...and it worked) but that's really about it. There's a couple of 'woman power' moments with the Schuyler sisters but even those come and go in a hurry and the one little obvious 'applause moment' with Hamilton and Lafayette saying "immigrants, they get the job done..."

But shit, it's a 2 hour and 45 minute long performance with MAAAAYBE 2 minutes of wokeness in it. I'd probably let that slide, but your mileage may vary.

It's apart of Disney Plus, which is $7 a month, so not a terrible investment, worst case scenario is you can borrow your friends account to watch it like all streaming services, so your first excuse isn't really viable.

I don't inherently enjoy Country music or United States Women's Soccer, but I've been to concerts and watched games to see what all the commotion is about. I didn't turtle up in to a private safe space shell as to not offend my own outlook on the world and how I want to see it versus what it actually is. For every Beyonce song, there's a monster truck rally, I'm not going to rule out either just because I don't follow them.

You can have respect for rappers and other musician's even if you can't relate to their music. Does Eminem have some twisted lyrics about killing people, yeah, but I'm not going to say all his music is worthless and not worth my time just because I don't agree with one song. Life isn't always an all or nothing approach and shouldn't be treated that way. I care to experience most things life has to offer, but I was replying to the OP, not to your bubble.

Eh, I don't think that's accurate. There's plenty of rap, of course, but there are some pretty "normal" musical songs strewn throughout as well. I'd guess maybe 75% rap, 25% sung. Essentially no spoken dialog though.

I honestly felt it hard to follow because of the no spoken words part. As a guy who’s seen it in theatre, was it easier to follow there?

I certainly wouldn't say I picked up every word or anything the first time through. The plot overall is easy enough to follow, but if you're not used to the pace of the wording, it can be overwhelming. That said, I don't think you really need to hear every word to get the point. That's true of most musical works (even songs on the radio). If you really enjoy it, re-watching can bring a whole different experience.

Even so, my middle-class, retired, white parents from rural Kansas came to Denver and enjoyed it, so it's not like you have to be a rap fan to like it.

I don't mind the rap, I just felt that I had to pay more attention than I normally do during a movie. Just wondered if I would enjoy it more without the distractions in my home.

I haven't done it, but I've read some people the interwebs saying that they turned on captions and enjoyed that. I think I'd personally find myself staring at the words too much.

I didn't have too much issue following it but i listen to alot of rap to begin with.

I kind of view it as heightened language in this case. Similar to Shakespeare. I may not understand every word as intended but i can follow the story and it gives replay value.

You don't have to like rap but should be respected as an art form. It's just poetry.

If the captioning is the same as the version I watched a while back [cough], they were very helpful.

Prior remarks, here;

https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost...7&postcount=59

Do you listen to any rap music at all? Do you enjoy the genre at all? Did you enjoy Rent?

I think a lot of people are going to be put off this musical simply because they don't enjoy that style of music.

/though I'm fairly certain you aren't racist... I don't think you having watched Phantom with a black lead is going to grant you the absolution you seek had you been accused of being one. lolol

Just admit you have no rhythm and stop talking about a genre of music you have no clue about.

Personally I'm holding out for the hard rock version of MLK! starring Ted Nugent as King and Gene Simmons as Jessie Jackson.

Should be a hoot.

I think Lin Manuel Miranda and Leslie Odom Jr. have much more respect for the source material than Ted Nugent and Gene Simmons would have for civil rights. Might be obvious to say, but someone has to say it on this board from time to time.

I doubt if Nugent and Simmons actively support domestic terrorists, either.

Saw it last night with my wife. It was worth the 7 bucks easily. (Plus, now I can watch The Mandalorian...).

I enjoyed it immensely. So much so that a second viewing is not at all out of the question. I'm not a rap guy at all, but I do find myself enjoying some rap music. Most noteably Emminem. Not because he's white, he just has a voice and a delivery that I can't ignore. There are a LOT of catchy cool songs in this, and the delivery by the stage actors only add to it. There are a TON of lyrics of course, so I don't expect to know every word no matter how many times I watch it. So that makes it way different than say Jesus Christ SuperStar, which I pretty much have memorized.

As a conservative, I was not offended at all. Yeah, there was some "Women Power" stuff and some "immigrant power" stuff, but not much. I thought the way they handled Hamilton's death was maybe one of the best things I've ever seen from a stage production.

I found myself thinking how good this story would be as a Netflix series to really flesh out the history, which I'm mostly ignorant of. That means that it did its job, it made me curious and I now want to know more about the whole thing.

Lastly, I made the mistake of watching the woke ass 45 minute special with the actors afterwards. Mostly when they talked about the art it was fine, but my SJW radar was beeping through most of it. Meh. Just watch the musical. It's just really good.

Favorite Characters:
Elisa
Burr
King George
Washington
Lafayette\Jefferson
Hamilton

Yeah, the namesake was the weakest performer IMO.

Also though, it seemed this production was lip synced...is that correct?

I don't know exactly how they did it, but they did NOT studio record the audio and sync to that. The studio version is far more produced.

I THINK that all of the audio was taken from the live performances during the days they recorded (which I understand was two actual shows with an audience and one day of filming various close-up shots). It certainly wouldn't surprise me if there were moments when the audio was from Day 1 and you were seeing video from the close-ups, for example. So in that sense, it was probably synced a little, but definitely not end to end.

I read an article about whats considered "live" and whats not by whatever governing board, actors guild, union?


The gist is like in this case, they can take any audio or performance from those two days and mash them together, The comedy specials we see from everyone are usually recorded over two days and mashed together. But, if you say its live, you cant put studio recorded audio into the live broadcast.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!

Watch Angelica's dress and you'll have your answer....

During Speechless the flowers around her neck come and go.

Not lip synced, however, there were some moments spliced in that were done after the recorded performance. They were done without an audience and they were primarily for more 'intimate' close-up shots. It's still a 'live' performance and not overdubbed, but they did do some editing of a few moments here and there.

The microphones were all routed and recorded in Pro Tools while the video was recorded in Avid, where the final edits and audio mix was completed and rendered.

I haven't had a chance to watch it yet (my wife and kids have seen it a half a dozen times since last week) but once everything's benn recorded into an Avid rig and Pro Tools, anything can be fixed, from pitchy vocals to the overall live mix.

While I'm certain that there are different performances from the recordings 2016, the editor will pick the best performance and roll with it. So unlike a general stage performance, we're seeing the best possible performances edited together from many different nights (which is not unusual).

These performances were also recorded without an audience, making the audio editing (and probably the video editing) much, much easier than if there was a live crowd due to the silence in the theater.

That would also explain why some people have felt the edited performance fell a little flat as compared to the theater experience because stage actors really feed off of the audience and their reactions.

Slightly off-topic but I've been watching the Frozen 2 doco series on Disney+ and just as I had imagined, all of Kristen Bell's (and many of the cast members) had their vocals tuned because all of them were extremely pitchy when seen recording their vocals for the songs.

The show was edited together using more than a dozen stage recordings. I haven't checked around but I'd be surprised if there wasn't any overdubbing because that's generally easier than making vocally tuned tracks sound natural.

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Saw RIP HAMILTON trending ,<br>and said<br>that happened July 11, 1804. <a href="https://t.co/OPNjxNFX5s">pic.twitter.com/OPNjxNFX5s</a></p>&mdash; Kevin G Shinnick (@shinnick_g) <a href="https://twitter.com/shinnick_g/status/1282070267301376004?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 11, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

Calling MLK a domestic terrorist is coming from the same voice that shot him. MLK made more change in this world than you and your friends ever did or will, and they're far better men because of it. Have a little respect for a man who was assassinated for speaking for equality.

*Drama!*

I believe Frazod is talking about the current cast of Hamilton and not MLK. They support BLM which he believes to be, or has been infiltrated by, domestic terrorists.

/I could be wrong

Just two with an audience and one day for some songs without.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/m...streaming.html

Apparently reading comprehension isn't a part of your programming. :facepalm:

It is more spoken word.

One of my friends at Disney said the initial production company recorded as many as a dozen different shows, then edited them together.

The production company spent $10 million to produce and while they had to rent five cameras, a steady-cam and 100 microphones, that seems a bit expensive to record only two shows.

Someone grabbing their junk while spewing obscenities over a sampled beat hardly qualifies as "music", friend.

JESUS.

I finally watched it, and I thought it lived up to the hype. Very impressive performances all around. It seems that a lot of people in here don't appreciate how much skill it takes to write and perform a production with this much rapping in it.

I didn't realize you were the gatekeeper for what is and isn't music based on a, apparently, extremely small sample size (if that is what you really think rap music is about).

Tell me, friend, can you tell me a little about your experience with rap? Like, what songs or what groups have influenced your opinion on this music.

If you're over age 50 and someone said Hamilton, do you think of Milk Shakes or Rap Music?

https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...df&oe=5F33AF9A

Well damn. This guy has just solved why a genre has been around for 30+ years.

While I'll admit there is plenty of bad rap i can say that for any genre of music. True rappers are wordsmiths and there are a ton of different techniques and intricacies.

Before Covid they would have made $30-$40 million on opening weekend. Then the DVD money. Then to Disney+.

Was your people in the know surprised they went ahead and released to Disney+ instead of riding out Covid?

I had rumors about it for a while but from my understanding, the Disney+ deal didn't happen until after Bob Iger returned to his CEO post (after "retiring" for about a month).

I gotta hand it to Iger, man. He rarely makes mistakes and even when he makes mistakes (e.g., KK and Star Wars), Disney still earns a boatload.

The parks shutting down because of COVID has to be killing them. Their losses must be astronomical?

I enjoyed it very much, but was shocked by how much Miranda was overshadowed by every other person in the production.

This was in early May. I can't imagine how bad it got after that.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...as-hurt-so-far

I saw the pre-Broadway run of Spamalot in Chicago. Tim Curry played King Arthur, and I went in thinking there couldn't be a better choice to stand in for the late great Graham Chapman. But his performance was flat as a board; pretty much everybody else blew him off the stage. Especially David Hyde Pierce, who played Robin.

We get it you don't like the blacks. Just call it what it is.

He said that? |Marx|

I saw it for the first time. Liked it a lot. Lin-Manuel Miranda's Drunk History on Hamilton is also absolutely worth a watch.

Just happened to stumble onto this little song that got cut from the play (truncated to a couple lines in The Reynolds Pamphlet, more accurately).

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Couple of good lines in there - "You're the only enemy you ever seem to lose to" really needed to be in there somehow, that's an excellent summation of Hamilton as a historical figure really.

Curious if Miranda just couldn't make the story flow off it.

No it isn't.

I enjoyed the production. Very entertaining..

An insult to the Founding Fathers.

My daughter was a huge fan so I took her to see it on Broadway back in 2018. Great father/daughter trip. Went to The Met, MOMA, saw Book of Mormon as well (for the fifth time), enjoyed restaurants all over Manhattan, did some sight-seeing; good times. Nostalgia kicking in...