ChiefsPlanet - I am not a fan of Veach's "tier" approach.

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- - I am not a fan of Veach's "tier" approach. (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=338150)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15658656)

I’m just saying. If I was a Cardinals fan...I would be pissed at the Zaven Collins pick right now.

They are. GM Keim is an awful drafter. They have wanted his head on a pike for years now. Year round Keim hate is literally the foundation of local sports radio.

Compounding the LB/LB on back-to-back years in the top 16, they did the same thing previously with QB/QB. And 2017 was Hassan Reddick, another LB (really a DE they played out off position...).

Obviously the switch to Murray from Rosen was the right move, but they've had questionable positional decision making 5 years straight related to their 1st round picks. That statement is made agnostic of the actual players success.

Another year and yet another shitty draft evaluation by Direckshun.

For as many mocks as you’ve done over the past 15 years, it’s clearly evident that you haven’t learned a goddamned thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 15658685)

While the PFF and AP idiots are overly concerned with positional value and trading draft picks away, the Chiefs have completely rebuilt their OL into a strength.

They said paying a G like Thuney was bad.

Trading away picks to pay Orlando Brown was bad.

Drafting a C at 63 was bad.

They ignore the overall picture and results in favor of their “rules”.

It’s ****ing dumb.

I agree with the premise of not paying guards that much, but it still depends on context. A team like Jacksonville perhaps shouldn't give that contract to Joe Thuney. He's just not going to make a significant enough difference to matter. A team like them definitely IS better off using the draft and other forms of young player development to gradually improve it over multiple seasons, because it's going to take that long for them to start competing.

The Chiefs had the resources. They had the money. They needed the help. And the help is going to significantly make a difference.

So pay the ****ing money.

It's not hard.

The Jaguars paying Andrew Norvell was dumb. They didn’t have a franchise QB or great tackles or even a great running back.

The Chiefs paying Joe Thuney was smart. He’s a multiple Super Bowl champion who blocked for the best QB in NFL history and checks all of the boxes in terms of leadership, pass blocking, run blocking and experience.

As early as next season (and maybe even this season), Thuney will be the most senior of all of the offensive lineman and the Chiefs are smartly paying for a guy who’s been around the Super Bowl block and help to mold these guys into consistent champions.

He’s worth every single penny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 15658839)

Another year and yet another shitty draft evaluation by Direckshun.

For as many mocks as you’ve done over the past 15 years, it’s clearly evident that you haven’t learned a goddamned thing.

"I'm not a fan of Veach's tier aproach"

-hosted 3 straight AFCCG
-won SB54
-went to back to back SB's
-wiped out all team weaknesses in 2 months
-team is well set with the cap situation for the forseeable future.

Yeah, Direckshun

Thanks for weighing in! :thumb:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 15658784)

Oh man. Where to start with this post?

Let's start here:

1)99% of the mock drafts and 'expert analysis' bullshit we see is based on rumors and guesses by people who are not and never have been NFL scouts. Most of them are no more qualified than you or I to run an NFL draft room; and you or I are absolutely NOT qualified just because we read what these guys say and watch some YouTube videos.

2) The concept of positional value above all else ignores CONTEXT. Judging an individual draft by that that concept ignores so many variables that are really important like:

A)team needs, which include cap situations regarding veterans going forward, the depth chart and whether this position is likely to see the field any time soon

B)Scheme fit- sure that player may be EDGE RUSHER #6, which is excellent value in the late 2nd round, but he's 245 lbs. and best suited as a 3-4 OLB, and is likely to ONLY be successful as a situational pass rusher in a 4-3 base/heavy nickel like we run here. So no, he's not as valuable as a guy who may play 60 snaps plus a game at a less 'premier' position of NEED.

3)Your premise assumes that there is a huge difference between, say, WR #8 and WR #16. The reality is, because of scheme fit, differences of opinion in scouts rankings, and such WE have no earthly idea who WR #8 even is to any specific team, and the difference between WR #8 and #16 may be a big difference or very little. A lot of times, guys are bunched in very similar talent groups and you don't know what variables make the fit a good one or not. Maybe WR #8 is faster, but he's dumb as a rock and unlikely to be able to digest an Andy Reid playbook. WR #16 is super smart and a better route runner which allows him to play 'quicker' than his 40 time but he played in a dumbed down offense in college so you and I don't know that, but the scouts do and he's a better fit actually than WR #8.

So do you reach for WR #16? You could, and then everybody talks about how stupid you are, because that guy has a fourth round grade, and this guy you passed over was a clear second round talent, yadda yadda yadda. So you wait and you take him where it makes sense to, and in the meantime-

4) KC is picking at the back end of every round. IF they stay with the so-called 'higher value, premier positions' they will forever be drafting lesser talent. This is a formula for a declining team. The system is literally set up that way-to encourage parity and discourage dynasties. If you keep your board open to any position that is a scheme and need fit you can get elite players albeit at 'less valued positions'. Having young, cost controlled elite talent is the key to keeping this SB train running as long as we can with Mahomes. You fill in what you need to in free agency, but the draft is still the foundation.

So, you take WR #8 in the second round, and end up with IOL #30 in round 6 and hope he can be a good starting Center in a couple of seasons because positional value! .This is how you end up with Reiter and Wylie.

But WR#16 was actually an equally good fit for the team and you could wait and grab him in the 4th because he's a really SPECIFIC good fit for this offense more so than some others and your scouts just love him. So you take the LB and the OC in the second because they fit perfect and you can greatly improve two separate position groupings from good to elite.

That's of more value than WR#8.

We need elite young cost controlled talent for now, and for the near future. You don't get that by drafting lower rated players at higher rated positions according to unqualified draftniks.

We got EXCELLENT value in round 2 with late first/early 2nd rated guys at positions of need; and the Offensive line has gone from our biggest weakness to an elite group for this season and seasons to come. The LB corps from our biggest defensive weakness to one with great promise for this season and the near future. We made our team weaknesses into strengths.

Well. This post perfectly encapsulates everything that needs to be said.

Shut it down. Turn out the lights. Nothing more to see or say.

Basham is a nice player but he's not a great fit here.

Can play DE early then kick inside later.

I think Buffalo took him to play some 3 Tech because Oliver might be a bust that they took top ten.

Creed all the way over Boogie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15658636)

Who? Basham?

Ronnie Perkins.

And, yeah, Basham.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15658639)

Except they might not have seen Basham as an A pass rusher. We don’t know how they had him valued.

I don't really care -- I know how I had him graded and that's what's informing my opinion.

If every conversation is just going to devolve into "we should all defer to Veach in all things," then we have nowhere else to go. Because I still remember him as the GM responsible for the 2018 abomination. I may be the only one left, but I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 15658640)

If you want a legit DE, you’re either gonna have to go the frank clark route and trade for one or take one likely in the first round.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15658644)

And a ton of those guys went late first. No way were we trading up that high to get one of the bottom. That’s how you get Speaks 2.0.

Ronnie Perkins was at the top of my big board when 58 rolled around.

We passed on him twice, if my memory is correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15658652)

Everyone okay with the Cardinals taking two LBs with back to back top 20 picks?

heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll no

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15658669)

Bolton is worth the fact that when Hitchens gets tired or hurt....we won’t have to see Niemann come into the field at MLB.

Hitchens never gets hurt. He's missed like 1 game, I think, in three years. Dude plays through everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 15658685)

I'm not interested in defending the AP guys, I'll just defend myself.

I don't think there's any doubt that the Chiefs had tunnel vision this offseason -- they used all three phases of the offseason to improve the OL almost exclusively.

As a result, we are now shallow everywhere else. We were willing to obliterate our capspace for Trent Williams.

We have no starting DE. We have no WR. We are skinny at literally every other position.

There was a middle ground here. We know there was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 15658689)

This.

You just got a guy that was projected to go in the 30’s at 58 and he will be responsible for almost $10M in cap savings next year when they can let Hitchens go. It’s absolutely worth it.

I believe cutting Hitchens in 2022 will only save us $6m.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 15658700)

When you’re a team like kc and you don’t really have a gaping hole and have a super talented roster, you take good football players that fall for dumb reasons

The ones that did for the chiefs may not be at high level positions you’d like but really you don’t get to make that decision unless you wanna trade up

We had holes everywhere.

Still do -- we have at least two holes open at starting positions.

Guys, if Frank Clark goes down, which he has every year we've had him, we're going to be starting Taco Charlton and Mike Danna. And rotating in Tim Ward and Kaindoh.

You guys aren't grasping how big of a hole that is.