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He actually looks older than 44. |
What pushy messenging was supposed to be in this movie?
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Really good movie. Go see it.
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I enjoyed the film. Not what I would consider a 'must see' but it's worth a rental. It did have one of the funniest knock knock jokes that I've heard in quite a while but I'm kind of a sick puppy with my taste in humor.
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It doesn't make it crystal clear when reality is occurring and when its in the Jokers mind. You figure it out on your own but the Director assumes your an intelligent being and he doesn't have to put huge blinking signs up when we are in the Jokers mind and when its the movies reality. This is mainly a movie about one mans decent into his madness and what happens when he looses his grip on reality. It didn't have to be a joker movie. Phoenix's performance of that descent is why you go see this movie. Actors have said playing a crazy person is too hard because it either comes off as cartoonish or you back off and then it doesn't really show the depth and menace of mental illness. You WILL believe Phoenix is really crazy. Hope someone is checking on his welfare after playing this role. |
So I didnt enjoy the movie. Its not a movie that is enjoyable. Its fascinating? Maybe thats a better word but its a very sad dark film thats main purpose is to spread awareness of self pity and mental illness...and kind of championing it?
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https://nypost.com/2019/10/14/joker-...ture-releases/ |
Saw it last weekend. Films like this should wake people up to many things, to some of us it may very well have.
To others unfortunately it's just a movie. When you see a film where on one hand you can relate to the "bad guy" and on the other you wish this wasnt the reality for some people. This movie wasnt just entertainment, it was an outstanding film that hopefully means more going forward. |
I saw Joker today, I laughed a lot more than I thought I would at certain parts. With all the people in clown face mimicking his rebellious attitude I got the impression of V for Vendetta.
http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/me...x9le/giphy.gif I thought a better ending to tie into Batman would of been, when he was getting up on the hood of the police car and the crowd of people in clown face began to cheer, the next scene was the words "20 Years Later". https://wegotthiscovered.com/wp-cont...Accident-1.jpg Then the next scene is the bank robbery opening of Dark Knight (End of Movie). https://www.sideshow.com/storage/pro...cs_feature.jpg The story beginnings could of tied in more to Dark Knight. Let's say he had to apply for a job as a clown rather than being already employed, and he had a beard. They told him, to lose the beard. When he shaved, he had the scars on the side of his mouth that Heath Ledger had, and that's why he used the big red makeup to cover the scars. They did say his mother's boyfriend abused him as a child. I'm always thinking of ways to improve scripts or dialogue when I watch a movie. https://unbelievable-facts.com/wp-co...ath-Ledger.jpg |
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Is there a DC comics origin story for the Joker? Cuz usually when the movie veers from the heritage of the character the "true fans" go berserk.
I liked the film. Actually saw it by myself after dropping my kids at a birthday party and had a few hours to kill. Definitely felt sort of suspended in time while watching it. (maybe because I was stuck in the front row in recliner seats) I really enjoyed it. Can definitely see how people are concerned it might trigger people though. |
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Dollars doesn't mean it's a good movie. I always prefer to go by audience scores which in this case are crazy good as well. |
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Stars is a much bigger franchise with Disney marketing power.. it’s expwxtes to make money. Joker is one do the greatest films of this decade (before we start a new one)
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Saw this on Saturday night and really want to see it again. Excellent work by Phillips and Phoenix.
As someone pointed out earlier, it should wake some people up. Sadly, in this day and age it probably wont. |
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This is a world wide mega hit because of word of mouth, not marketing. |
Since popularity doesn't really mean it's a great film as far as the theatrical aspects. My favorite last big blockbuster was two years ago, The Shape of Water. It had mystery, intrigue, suspense, espionage, mayhem, sci-fi at it's best. Great acting from the mute played by Sally Hawkins and her opposite, the evil Michael Shannon. I always use IMDB as a base for whether to see a movie at the theater, wait to rent, watch on HBO, or don't bother. I found 7.0 or higher score is required to at least go to the theater.
The Shape of Water had 324,000 votes and a rating of 7.3 out of 10. Joker has 374,000 votes and a rating of 8.9. I very seldom see ratings in the 8's, to give you an idea, Forest Gump was 8.8 and The Godfather 9.2. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7286456...ref_=hm_cht_t1 |
Spoiler!
NSFW Ryan Reynolds congratulates Joker movie |
Kinda weird that this movie seems to hate the character of the Joker. Pretty much took the chaotic, psychopathic clown and made him a mopey, self-pitying loser whose only achievement is one of pure cowardice. Not saying I didn't think it was a good movie. Just surprised that it was basically a two hour take down of one of the most popular villains of all time. A pretty effective one.
Edit: I should say I also recognize the sad, mental illness side of his character was focused on as well. Even that aspect took an element that is usually used for intrigue and excitement and made it so pathetic that it practically shames the audience for rooting him on. |
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Getting close to a BILLION $’s now globally. That’s a ton of money to throw at Phoenix to reprise the Joker role.
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Very happy for the success of this film.
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@DEADLINE: EXCLUSIVE: #JokerMovie sequel news is mere click-bait. Insiders say Todd Phillips never pitched origin film series on other DC characters. Don't believe the hype just yet. https://deadline.com/2019/11/joker-s...ed-1202790774/ |
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This is true in any field. If there’s plenty of money to be made for everyone involved, it happens. |
I finally saw this. I thought it was pretty good- a fresh take on the Joker. Loved the delusion, hallucinations, and complete nosedive into madness.
Spoiler!
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I hope there isn't a sequel to this. I don't even know how a non-origin story would work with joker.
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Underrated flick. Here's hoping JP wins best actor.
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Watched it over the weekend. Found it quite disturbing in parts.
Very well made though. |
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Perhaps JP would still be THE Joker, just old and frail and operating from a secret location dictating operations. Bruce Wayne was very young in the film, so let's say its 20 years minimum until he is The Batman. That would put JP near 60 or more in that universe, and he didn't exactly seem healthy. |
If there is a sequel, I would like to see it tied into the Joker by Heath Ledger. Possibly a 20 year descent into crime related madness and the conclusion would be the bank heist that was the opening to Dark Knight.
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So how would he go on a 20 year crime spree and yet he's still a relative unknown in both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.
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http://cdn-static.denofgeek.com/site...?itok=453mdqzI Twenty year crime spree doesn't mean he pulling bank heists every week, it could be penny-ante non-sense, he's going mad, what does the level of the crime matter. Eventually he regains his senses and forms a gang, then comes the banks and the mob hits. Of course, he has no loyalty to his gang because he hires all losers. Anyone that gets in his way, hence the bank heist at the opening of Dark Knight and the killing of his gang members. https://static2.cbrimages.com/wordpr...op&w=798&h=407 |
That shit wouldn’t work. Now if you want to have it so that Heath Ledger’s Joker idolizes Phoenix’s Joker....then it might work. Your idea won’t work.
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Here's an old article, more like a blog, that I dug up while thinking about the timeline of the Dark Knight trilogy. I'll put the entire thing here in a spoiler tag so it won't be a giant wall of text in the thread:
Spoiler!
What do you think? Is this guy right? Can this be used to consider how Pheonix's Joker fits in, or if it does fit in? Doing a similar search I read that Joker is set in 1981. That would make the introduction of the character into the Dark Knight universe happen 27 years after the Pheonix Joker. So, suppose that Pheonix Joker goes on a domestic terrorism spree in the sequel during the 80's. Lots of material to work with there. He could take on the persona of a terrorist/serial killer/chaos engine and Ledger's Joker could be using that as an inspiration just as the Dark Knight uses fear to fight criminals. |
Yes, I said 1982 because they said “30 years ago she was in Arkham” and the clip board was dated 1952. So that’s the answer.
Not a comic book fan but this movie was excellent. It’s got heavy political overtones obv (with both alt-right and Bernie Bros claiming it as their anthem), and mental illness stigma. The scene where he aces Deniro was gripping: “YOU GET WHAT YOU FING DESERVE!!!” But I don’t quite understand why he killed his mom. Because he believed she lied to him about Wayne? |
Theres a scene with a theater marquee that says 'Blow Out' and "Zorro the Gay Blade'
Both released in summer of 1981 |
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In the style of Charles Manson he becomes a sort of insane violent guru. He moves from group to group inciting chaos and inspiring others to do the dirty work. The state and then federal authorities get involved but they can never quite pin him down, as he becomes well known among international terrorist organizations and organized crime families. Those groups use him to further their agendas and he goes along with it because he's just in it for the ride and doesn't really care what happens. One of the threads in the sequel could be conspiracy theory talk show hosts bringing guests on who claim to know of the existence of 'The Joker' only to be laughed at and dismissed by the vast majority. Leading to a scene where Pheonix shows up as a guest and purposefully kills any serious consideration of his existence by pretending to be caught out as a fraud. At some point the authorities get too close and he instructs those closest to him to go on divergent sets of missions to muddy the waters. He tells them that as long as they remain active then 'The Joker' will never die. Meanwhile he goes an an extremely violent suicide mission that he frames on a lead investigator leaving the authorities to wonder if 'The Joker' was one of their own or if he ever really existed at all. Ledger's Joker is a member of one of those cells started by Pheonix's closest followers. |
Yeah ...
Some version of a Joker Cult is the means to pull off a sequel if the intent is to maintain some semblance of continuity and "canon" coherence. I'm not sure a sub-Joker or copycat criminal emerging from the cult would fit neatly into the Batman story as most people know it, though. And it would negate the mystery associated with the original Joker's presumed origin(s) ... at least, to a degree. On the other hand, I don't see any other way to do it. FAX |
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It's an easy way to weave together various good Joker portrayals, and eventually dovetail into someone taking over for Batflek even. Multiple versions of characters has been done in the comics. Might as well bring that to the screen. |
This Joker is a stand alone movie, period. There should be no sequel, ever. At least in the Phoenix joker universe.
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However, it does seem like one of those "square peg/round hole" problems. And, undoubtedly, we've all had a few of those. First of all, I don't think people would be overly concerned about (or desirous of) a multi-film story featuring Joker had Marvel Studios not become more wealthy than 180 countries in a brief, 10-year span. Fans and producers might not even think about it. I mean, what Marvel pulled off was (and remains) somewhat unique in cinematic history. That accomplishment created a new context and fosters a new conversation and high expectations. One also has to keep in mind that, since the Joker character is so historic and so beloved and so significant (to so many fans), one has to tread lightly to avoid market alienation and the perception of artistic compromise. This film "might" serve as a foundational piece but I don't think it was intended as such and, therefore, isn't an ideal cornerstone. Not to say that it couldn't be done. I think we know that a film crusade akin to Marvel must be built on a solid substructure from the outset. The first movie has to resonate and the subsequent films have to both elaborate and enhance. You can have an occasional "dud", but you can't let go of the thread entirely ... else you lose the entire tapestry ... and the box-office. Ergo, the problem. Ledger's Joker is gone forever because Ledger is gone forever. Phoenix's Joker is essentially incompatible with an "Origin of Batman" storyline because the timelines don't sync and Joker would be 70 years old before his first Batman encounter. That won't fly. The only way to do this is to proceed with your suggestion. Yet, that leads to the potential of multiple Jokers emerging from some sort of Joker Cult or Joker Crime Family or Joker Fan Club which invalidates (probably) 90% of the fans' various preconceptions of Joker's history, background, and motivation. It's possible ... but I'm not sure the odds of success are all that great. I'd like to see them try, though. FAX |
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Sure. I'm just daydreaming about ways that they could keep moving forward with the various character's franchises and possibly weave them all together. Each one brings its own set of problems. You have Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman and she's great in the role - probably the best situation out of all of them and they're going to need to keep pumping out decent movies with her or they'll lose steam. Aquaman is surprisingly (to me) adequate and maybe they can sell him as Underwater Thor. The rest are, pretty much, crap on the big screen so far. They need a new Batman, or someone to start off as Robin and turn into Batman as Batfleck is dealt some sort of terminal blow onscreen - that might make a decent soft reboot if Cult Joker kills him and Robin becomes New Batman. Superman is a boring character and I don't know if they even have anyone to play him. Cyborg/Flash? Blah. If they are going push this Justice League idea then they have a lot of work to do, and it doesn't look good so far. As of right now I'd only be interested in these movies: Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. The Death of Batfleck. Aquaman is Underwater Thor. I think it's more likely that Pheonix Joker is either just a one off or will exist entirely in its own universe, unfortunately. |
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Is it that the whole thing was in his head? |
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This sucked. It desperately wanted to be a gritty 70s flick, but it didn't have the balls to do it right. The subways of this urban hellhole are menaced by gangs of low level white collar business men. The horror! Get your gun Bernie Getz, cause Biff Thorndyke and his BBA boyz are talkin' all kinds of shit about the Princeton rowing team.
spoilers So the Joker may be (but probably isn't) Batman's brother? One of the reasons that comic book writing is so terrible is that the authors have an obsession with small universe syndrome. Not really surprising to see it make the transition to the big screen. They at least managed to not make the Joker the killer of Bruce Wayne's parents, but they still managed to end up with them getting killed by one of his acolytes. The love interest was pointless and unbelievable. Joaquin Phoenix's acting as a person with mental illness - good. Joaquin Phoenix's acting as the Joker - terrible. Why so fem? The Joker doesn't need an origin story. Batman's parents should be killed by a random criminal. Not by Joe Chill and certainly not by the joker. Batman wages a war against crime, not a particular criminal. Why is the Joker so rarely funny? I think the character works best when he is darkly humorous. The essence of the Joker, imo, should be: you know you shouldn't laugh but you can't help yourself. I did like the scene where the midget couldn't reach the lock after witnessing a killing. |
The way I took it: he's definitely not Bruce's brother. His mom was nearly as delusional as he was.
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As kind of an aside to that I had an issue with this portrayal because the Joker isn’t just maniacal but, also a brilliant criminal. This Joker is just a deranged fool. It is a tremendous performance but, it just doesn’t quite fit as the actual Joker. IMO of course. |
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I agree, but even dangling the possibility is kinda annoying. Again, I don't think the Joker needs an origin story, especially a lame one where he's a bad stand-up comic with a medical condition that makes him laugh for God's sake. If you insist on making one and you want to go with a gritty 70s thing you have to go all out. You have to show the urban rot and degradation that we saw in Death Wish and Taxi Driver. You need racial conflicts too, but there is no way that would fly today. Don't stop with the Joker as Travis Bickle - go all the way into Joe Spinell in Maniac (1980) territory with a dash of the Scorpio killer from Dirty Harry. Oh, and make me laugh and then feel guilty about it. |
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it may be a small % but the video game players version of Joker is involved in here somewhere as well.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Joker 2 will reportedly be co-written by the original movie's director and co-writer Todd Phillips, who has struck a deal to return <a href="https://t.co/dCObfUy0hz">https://t.co/dCObfUy0hz</a> <a href="https://t.co/mhhvM0iEGQ">pic.twitter.com/mhhvM0iEGQ</a></p>— Screen Rant (@screenrant) <a href="https://twitter.com/screenrant/status/1398004508832288773?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 27, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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