Post here if you were an idiot who thought we needed to run the ball more.
 

Particularly if you believed it needed to be done out of power formations LMAO

No, the Chiefs needed to execute the passing game. And they finally did. They fought their way out of it.

And now we are going to skull**** everyone with our goddamn elite QB.

I hate to break it to you but we rushed 23 times tonight and some of those short quick hit passes to the WR and the RB are effectively an outside run. Those are the plays we have been neglecting that open up the passing game. Not everything can be a vertical pass. You have to take the underneath stuff including running the ball and screens/swing passes.

Those were lacking over the last few weeks - almost like we forgot we had them.

Definitely wasn't me

The Raiders clearly watched no film. Hill was open all day. Kelce was open all day. Receivers were getting behind the Raiders secondary. Not sure what their defensive coaches did all week. The recipe for playing against the Chiefs wasn't followed well.

I love Andy and Pat, but those horizontal runs with Darrel were horrible, every single time.

They weren’t jamming Kelce at the line. That helped.

I'm only posting because of the first seven words in the title.

you are brain dead

Patrick seemed in sync more when he was taking those underneath options too. It was like his timing had been off on that for weeks. Today it seemed smooth.

Our offense looked totally different this week.

Reid always used short passes to the flat as a substitute for a traditional running game, and we finally brought back some of that this week. I feel like that really opened things up for us, cause Mahomes looked like a surgeon back there cutting up the defense.

I believe if they have a running threat the opposing D coordinators worry about PM's numbers would be record shattering year in and year out.

Glad to say not me!

Chiefs are a power running team now! Dumb****s

Because the players executed.

Short passes have been in the gameplan all year. Mahomes just wasn't hitting wide open guys. Particularly in the flats.

And tonight we not only hit most of those, Patrick hit the deep ones.

Playcalling was never an issue, only execution.

I'd like to us be able to use the I formation, even if we still throw it 60% of the time.

But now Williams carrying the ball isn't the answer to our problems.

Chiefs were way more creative about how they used him. Getting him out there as a blocker, lining him up as fullback. That seemed more about Andy making the right adjustment.

The “Run MOAR” crowd never understood it was, is and always will be the Chiefs patience and execution with the short passing game that will be their path to salvation vs the two deep safety defenses.

It certainly isn’t running right to Wylie’s side.

He was helping Wylie with chips quite often, which was a good idea.

i am an idiot.

i was thinking since defenses have been practically inviting the run game and throws to the backs, that it made some sense to try and take advantage of it. the main problem was, i didn't think the defense would be able to hold up their end of deal, and force enough stops or turnovers to make a ball control style game plan a viable option. but, the defense has been playing a lot better the last few weeks, and, as a result, it got me thinking the underneath stuff made more sense than i would have thought otherwise.

i am very happy to have been wrong, especially at the Raiders expense.

2nd Drive 11 plays (Tyreek TD):
P.Mahomes pass short left to Da.Williams pushed ob at KC 23 for 5 yards
D.Gore right guard to KC 28 for 5 yards
P.Mahomes pass short right to Da.Williams to LV 39 for 22 yards
Da.Williams left tackle to LV 11 for 1 yard

3rd Drive 8 plays (FG):
P.Mahomes pass short middle to Da.Williams to KC 32 for 7 yards
Da.Williams up the middle to LV 47 for 21 yards
Da.Williams right tackle to LV 33 for 1 yard
P.Mahomes pass short middle to Da.Williams to LV 22 for -1 yards

4th Drive 11 plays (Tyreek TD)
D.Gore right guard to KC 45 for 3 yards
P.Mahomes pass short left to Da.Williams to LV 7 for 3 yards
Da.Williams up the middle to LV 3 for no gain
Da.Williams right tackle to LV 1 for 2 yards

6th Drive 14 plays (Gray TD)
Da.Williams left tackle to KC 24 for 6 yards
Da.Williams right end to KC 36 for -1 yards
P.Mahomes pass short right to Da.Williams pushed ob at LV 32 for 17 yards J.McKinnon up the middle to LV 19 for 5 yards
Da.Williams left tackle to LV 11 for 1 yard
B.Bell up the middle to LV 8 for 3 yards

7th Drive 9 plays (2nd FG)
Da.Williams left end to KC 45 for 2 yards
Da.Williams up the middle to LV 49 for 6 yards
Da.Williams right tackle to LV 20 for -3 yards
P.Mahomes pass short left to Da.Williams to LV 24 for 3 yards

9th Drive 8 plays (Pringle TD):
D.Gore left tackle to KC 29 for 4 yards
D.Gore left guard to KC 41 for 4 yards
D.Gore up the middle to KC 45 for 4 yards
McKinnon up the middle to LV 22 for 3 yards



Balance....

Mike Leach says that screens and passes to the backs in the flat are just long handoffs.

You counting garbage time drives? LMAO

51 passes 23 runs...balance? LMAO

One of the strengths of the team is the interior line, so yes, I think they should run more in general. But not necessarily with Williams.

How can you say this?

HOW?

LMAO

How about only counting the series that resulted in a score eh? Try starting there.

I was on the let Mahomes be Mahomes train since the draft. Posted it a couple of weeks ago and got a lot of shit. Through this rough patch it’s still Mahomes that will get us back to the promised land. He’s not perfect. No human being is. But, you have to let him be who he is.

the passes that worked early were play action

reid did a great psyche job because everyone thought we were gonna run

so those play actions , screens and short passes to the flat worked

then when they blitzed, we torched them

That's probably about the right balance for this team, especially since the screens and flats were working today, those are like extended handoffs.

Wow. No. Just go away.

Yea sucks being good in all dimensions of the game. You should always want to be as one dimensional as you can

Direckshum said we are a power running team

Today was pretty perfect in the amount and efficiency of rushes. Williams is so slow, you can time him with a sun dial.

When you have Patrick Mahomes, you should throw more than you run.

At a disgusting pace.

This take > your thread

This is true but there is 2 ways you beat the 2 deep shell coverage and that is running the ball against a light box or the short passing game. For the last month Mahomes has struggled with the short passing game so in those instances we need to run the ball.

I thought tonight outside of running Williams on sweeps the run game was pretty decent and we had 23 carries. I think 23-25 carries is about right. Unfortunately CEH is back next week so we will start sucking again in the running game.

So ...you have no valid response, got it.

Here's my hot take: the Raiders threw out the playbook that was constraining our offense. I didn't see many two high safety looks. Also when you are down multiple scores, you basically have to throw the two high safety plays out.

Early in the game, Kelce was blocking, before releasing down field. That delayed release works like gold for getting a TE open.

Don't need one. Our run pass ratio was the same it has been most of the year. You are too much of a dummy dum dum to realize it.

Because passes on drives that end in punts should count. Okay :thumb:

It all counts.

No honey, the only stuff that counts is what leads to a score.

Yes, unsurprisingly passing with the most talented QB who ever lived proved a better choice than running with a bunch of fringe RBs.

You're going to lead this thread in posts, so good job following instructions.

Is this actually true? The entire first half we got the same 2 high safety looks we've been getting all season.

I did and still do. Our running games appeared to be an impactful part of the game tonight, instead of just going through the motions because we "had" to. Williams look good too. McKinnon was pointless but Gore can still run imo.

Williams appears to be our 3rd best WR. lol :)


fyi Kemp had another good game. Is that 3 straight?

It was good for like 70 yards before garbage time ROFL

That is no different than any other week.

Keep telling yourself that.

We used lots of dink passes that substitute for runs. Mahomes played dink and dunk early, then chucked it deep late. Short setup long.

Part of the problem is Patrick hates to checkdown and We weren't really running anything where the screen or flat was the 1st option. We need those plays or for Patrick to take the easy yards sometimes on 1st on 2nd down to keep the defense honest.

You know this isn't the same thing, right?

No one was ever arguing against that. ROFL

We should fire those hand it off to guys and bring in moar throw it to guys!

One replay showed that they tried. Kelce was just too good. I think another factor the past few weeks was that Travis was not healthy. He looks like he's getting back to healthy.

I wonder if certain DCs just simply don't like to run zones. And if a team doesn't practice much zone defense then they certainly aren't going to be good at it. Looked like the raiders may have run a zone early and then gave up on it. Didn't pay a lot of attention to that so I could be wrong.

I did notice the two deep a lot but they also seemed to change out of it from time to time. And those often times turned into big plays for the chiefs.

How's Daurice Fountain doing these days?

We do need to run more and we did and it worked.

Turns out we needed more Darrel running routes down the field.

You guys do realize that Patrick threw 4 TD's off of play-action, right?

You do understand that in order for play-action to work, you have to actually be a threat to actually run the football, right?

They ran just enough for the Raiders to respect it. Ok, cool. Some weeks it may take more. Some weeks it may take less.

Running the ball isn't just about YPC. It's about everything else that it sets up.

I don’t understand what that has to do with the price of tea in China. But really he was making the team over the rest of the available WRs. That was my only argument. The only reason he isn’t here now is Josh Gordon. So. Yeah.

The plays they made yesterday have been there all the time, including the games we struggled in. The difference was Mahomes staying calm in the pocket, reading the defense, anticipating throws, and making them along with getting the ball to the flats with more decisiveness to give time for the catch and run. There were multiple throws he made yesterday that he simply wasn’t doing the last four games even though they were available.

Shut up. You've been destroyed over the last month.

Compare rushing attempts and yards to passing attempts and passing yards in previous games and get back to me. :LOL:

I believe there's been enough studies to show actually running it doesn't really matter in regards to play action.

MOAR RPO!!!

Do you actually understand what play-action is? Because if a defense doesn't believe you will run the ball, there is literally no point.

The whole of point of PA is to freeze the linebackers and/or safeties for their run fits, making them late to adjust and make their coverage fits. If nobody believes you're going to run the ball, they just don't honor their run fits.

This is football 101, and it's not really any more up for debate than water being wet.

3.8 YPC is not good.

8.3YPA passing is pretty dang good.

I mean did anyone think the Raiders were successful running the ball last night?

Yes. And successfully running it or not has been shown to not effect play action.

I'm rather surprised to see you say this because analysis shows this to be incorrect. There is no correlation between how many times you run it and how effective PA is statistically.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...action-passing

YPC is not really always the point, as I've explained several times. It's what running the ball DOES in all of the other ways. It opens up play-action, which Pat hit 4 TD's with. It opens up the intermediate routes, as LB'ers have to honor their run fits first and coverage responsibilities second. And sometimes, all you need is a yard or two, so plays are designed to do that, such as goal-line and short yardage. These drag your average down but are not unsuccessful plays.

I'm sure Clay is howling somewhere the opposite, but I put him on ignore a while back so I don't have to read his idiotic drivel but he doesn't actually know much about football and specifically situational football or the chess match strategy of setting up other things. He's definitely more of a checkers man.

No. The Raiders look like a team who has had two players arrested and kicked off the team right after their coach got ran out of town...the sky is falling in Vegas.

Go read the link I posted. Running in fact does not open up play action.

Absolutely this.

IIRC, the Raiders play the least C2 of any team in the league. Not surprising that the offense "broke out" last night.

I don't think that study says exactly what you think it says, and it partially proves my point-success running the ball doesn't really matter all that much in relation to play-action passing. But you still have to do it some. You have to make the defense honor that fact that you MIGHT run the ball.

The study shows that teams that rarely ran the ball ( not at all in the previous 8-10 plays) were less successful in play-action passing.

So the 'never run the ball ever, just throw' crowd are missing the point too.

What that study is looking at is how effective running games are in relation to play-action passing, and how much do you have to run? The answers are: you don't have to be great at it, but you do have to do it enough to be a threat to do it.

That's totally in line with what I've been saying. Other people may have been wanting to go full on Barry Word style Martyball, but that's not me, unless you're talking about eating clock late in the game sitting on a large lead.

It had become pretty mind boggling that some of those plays aren't a weekly thing as long as the defense is giving them.... especially Kelce coming off blocks and letting him do his thing for yards. It's one of those things that seem to work for every team in the league, but the Chiefs outright ignore it.

In previous weeks that stuff seemed so forced, it was great to see the confidence and rhythm last night, and the team having fun, which of course has been lacking.

And I do think it would behoove us to run the ball a little more than almost 3-to-1 because we have a line that's built to do it; but I don't like running Williams outside. He doesn't have the speed for that.

Not just for play-action, but to pull those safeties up some and open up some more downfield shots.

God damn.

Where is Pete so you guys can have a buttsex orgy with Creed and Darrel?

Here's the thing though, nothing the Chiefs do in the run game is going to pull up the safeties. I know that's the normal mantra, but teams are just to afraid of last night happening that they're just content to sit back and die slow.

Yeah, the Raiders were pretty hard-headed.

They were still playing a lot of Cover 3 (the original "Mahomes Killer") and there's a that cover 3 can do to mess up those deep passes as well. But they were playing a cover 3 with Jonathan Abram who...sucks.

That said, the confidence that Mahomes was playing with last night was completely unlike anything we've seen out of him since the Ravens game. He was back to his old self.

So while the Raiders defense in some ways made things easier, the Titans defense wasn't exactly playing well out there, Mahomes was just missing. He was in a slump. He appears on his way to pulling out of it.

No, the answer is not running the ball 30 times a game. The Chiefs used the passing game to establish a lead and then took the air out of the ball late. They worked the underneath routes (those short crossers finally came back out again) to draw the safeties down and made the Raiders pay anytime the tried to cheat on them.

They handed the ball to the RB 20 times on the day (for the record, FAR too many of those were off tackle right on 1st down), 8 of those came after they'd established a double digit lead late in the 3rd and into the 4th.

It was EXACTLY how they need to operate moving forward. They're not a power running team with an elite quarterback. They shouldn't try to be. They're an elite passing offense with the ability to use their interior line to win situational reps. Their quarterback hit the first slump of his career and battled his way out the other side.

This is what they do and this is what they should be. Anyone trying to claim some level of vindication for a gameplan that featured 20 handoffs and 5 touchdown passes as proof that running the football was how the Chiefs needed to win simply wasn't paying attention.

Lol, establishing the running game set up a number of those big pass play's. We even ran some RPO's and the D actually bit on the fake. So if you wanted to run more, you were right. If you wanted to pass more, you were also right. It takes a balanced attack to keep the defense honest. So don't knock the running game.

Correct.

The Raiders didn't come up because they were afraid of the run. They came up because Hardman and Hill were beating them on crossers and Kelce was abusing them underneath.

And frankly, they still didn't come up that much or that often - Abrams is just awful.

This isn't a team that 'conventional wisdom' will work well in analyzing. And ultimately that's a very very good thing.