Still looks like a Sutton Defense...
 

Preseason, yes so not going all in on this but right now it looks like teams will own the middle of the field on us. Hope that changes come week #1

Run D looks much better though

Youve done this every week. Preseason doesnt matter and it's pointless to draw any conclusions.

INB4VANILLA


Spags sucks.

How does the run d looks much better but it still looks like a Sutton defense?

OMG the defense hasn’t gone from worst to first before the season even starts! Spags sucks!

****ing moron.

I might think that, too. If I hadn't actually, you know, watched any of the first half.

Its preseason.
If Jacksonville runs a train on our defense, then you can start worrying (and even then, it might be too early to fret.)

Based on preseason it won’t matter because KC only does 3 or 4 play scoring drives

at least we can stop the run now, even if the pass D is the same (it won't be, it will be better IMO), that's still a HUGE improvement from last year.

It's better than Sutton d.

Sutton d gives up pass plays while getting shredded through the a gap for 10 yard gains on the ground.

Anyone expecting this to be a Top 5 defense is a fool. They could be in the 20s and still be significantly better than last year. Folks need to stop overreacting to a meaningless preseason game.

Also this time last year the Bears second stringers murdered our defense. Remember?

It’s way better than last year already in preseason

Yes. Bob Sutton's in season defense was a shitty ass plan and simple pre season defense.

Spags said himself it would take awhile to get the new scheme. He actually said the first quarter of the year is about getting comfortable.

Tonight we saw a rookie safety look like a rookie safety. We saw a breakdown on some blitzes and a coverage miss TD. Give it time.

The biggest thing this team had to fix was the run defense so teams couldn’t run time off the clock. It looks like they fixed it.

Yep. All the Chiefs defense needs to do is be able to get a couple extra stops per game. They'll be able to with an improved run D.

Looks exactly like a Sutton D...

Except there's, you know, four down linemen...

Except the linebackers are all attacking downhill...

Except they look intense and aggressive instead of confused and thinking about where they were supposed to be on the last play...

Otherwise exactly like Sutton.

They do (still) need to shore up some of the tackling in the secondary, and DB is just as shallow a position group as we all knew it would be, but none of that is scheme.

And we haven't seen much of the style of attack the d-line will purportedly use. No surprise there. Why put it on tape?

We still can't cover anyone. We've changed a lot of our secondary personnel but still can't cover or tackle. Yuck.

The Sutton part is not getting off the field on 3rd down.....just frustrating to watch, even in preseason

You're a clown. The starters did great tonight. Run defense looks vastly improved.

No, not as bad as Sutton's D.

Much better tackling, not as many wide open guys and overall improved.

If there was such a thing as a "Sutton Thread" this would be it.

Way better than last preseason as ridiculous as that sounds.

Maybe during the very brief time our starters were on the field but our backups are gawd awful. What is really disgusting is that our backups this year were are starters last year. Yikes.

Our defensive coaches better get their shit together, our players look confused.

Such a Pete thread. Surprised he didn’t complain about the officials in there somewhere too.

Pre season doesnt count dumbass

That's in chat.

Eat my turds and drink my piss

Yes, eat all of our shirts!

Its pre-season LMAO

I still hope we add a CB and maybe even take a shot at Clowney.

May have been a communication problem or something that will change by the season if they play Lee more but on the first touchdown, brieda goes to line up outside and Raggland is on him. Ragland let him go as if he had help. That is the stuff that looked like Sutton but can be cleaned up or teams are going to expose that.
This isn’t on Spaggs yet but the concerning thing is Ward in Man on 3rd and Long. He doesn’t want to get beat (had no help on the play as we blitz) so he gives to much room. He is never close on out routes. As a D coordinator now that it’s obvious, the calls on third and long need to plan for that, at least until MO is able to play.
I don’t care about it right now but if I see mistakes like those two in the season I’m going to be concerned about Spaggs. He has several times he needs to know what he has to work with it and he will call the D off that. Sucks he will have to dial back what he would like to do but it’s the right move. I have hope that by mid season everyone is in better sync and guys are playing well enough that he can get more aggressive but I except the D won’t be what we hoped, at least early on.

I don’t see that happening at all. Definitely not clowney. A CB is possible but who? A waiver guy or the guys like Ward you trade a late pick are no better than what we have. Chiefs only have one pick in rounds 1-5 so you would need to give a pick for a player that another team thinks they don’t need which is unlikely at this point. I think they are hoping Breeland can stay healthy and they feel okay about him and Mo.

still looks like the overreaction planet.

I think some of you guys were just raised to whine and bitch.

Without Honey Badger out there to help the rest of the secondary, I was pretty damn impressed with how well the defense played, actually.

Remember, this whole defense is brand new. Tons of new players. New scheme. New techniques.

They will make mistakes and have communication errors early in the season...but as the season progresses and the guys learn the scheme and build chemistry with one another, this defense has a chance to be very very good the second half of the year.

Possibly dominant.

I don't even want Clowney for what he would cost, he's overrated.

I highly doubt Veach has any interest in Clowney.

2 weeks ago: https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=324402

Can you just stop making reactionary threads after games?

I saw our dline **** up their oline so not sure where this is coming from

PETETHINGS!!!!!

The 49ers couldn't run for shit.

This D is light years better.

Our starting 11 handled business against the run. The rest not so much
But it's encouraging. One thing I am certain is that they will get better. Sutton never made them better during the season
Spags will.

I usually wouldn’t worry but this was against Jimmy G who just got destroyed last week.

I watched 2 plays with Henne at QB and changed the tv. There was no point after that. Even on Defense, it was alot of back ups. No fun for me in that.

I'll start worrying after the JAX game. But even then if I see progress and fixable mistakes I'll try to hold judgement.

I think mid-season - also after 4 weeks of Claiborne - is a fair time to judge if our D has really improved or not.

We would have stopped them on the 1st series if it wasn't for a holding call. The run defense is much better. That's what killed us last year.

The defense swarmed to the ball and there weren’t as many missed tackles as we have grown accustomed to. So, that’s nice.

If he can stay healthy, Chris Jones is going to have a massive season. That dude did whatever he wanted to do out there. It was great to see. He looks improved from an already dominant player.

This team is going to win the super bowl.

The most important thing go to me is Spags clearly understands how you beat Tom Brady in big games - you gamble and hope your guys get there.

The fact that we have Mahomes makes a gambling defense soooooo much more of a good strategy. Think about it - late in the game if we gamble and lose - quick score, defense not exhausted, and maybe we can score last. If we gamble and win - game over.

Sutton was a master at setting up his defense to give up the slow, clock-eating, soul-destroying drive late in the game. No big plays though! He was such a pussy when it came to any kind of blitz or gambling defense. He kept pretending he had '85 Bears talent, and was too old to adapt. His defenses played not to be embarrassed.

but yet even avoiding embarrasment, that backfired :thumb: :D

Long season,but I think people around here are expecting too much from this defense. If they're not in the bottom 1/3 of the league I'll be surprised. Just don't be in the bottom 3. Yanno?

As it usually does.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like a big improvement.

I saw nothing tonight from the 1st team that reminded me of Sutton's defense. Except, of course, for the fact that Sorensen was very active and near the action most of the night (and certain obvious elements of the pass defense).

There was no Dee Ford or Justin Houston, but I can't say they were particularly missed. It did seem a little strange that Scandrick and Nelson weren't grabbing guys downfield all night. In fact (while the 1s were on the field), I think the only defensive holding call we got was on a backer who tugged the tight end's jersey as the enemy was making his primary cut.

The run game defense looks improved (again, just talking about the 1s here) while the coverage was generally poor (which was the only stark similarity I perceived). Pick plays and the short-to-intermediate throws remain problematic, apparently. One would hope that the communication on the back end would be better.

Overall, I think it's fair to say that the defense plays with a noticeably different (and improved) attitude. The fact that Honey Badger wasn't on the field is important to remember.

If we can fix the communication problems among the backs and backers, we'll know more. As of now, however, I see no reason to compare this outing to the defense we fielded last season. We may be worse or we may be better, but (other than blown coverages and our difficulty dealing with intermediate crossers) we are not the same.

FAX

The 1st team run defense sure does.

Excellent points, Fax. I just see a lot of not getting off the field which I guess is what gives me flashbacks of Sutton. Especially conversions over the middle. Everyone knows the LB spot this year is questionable. I do think they are different from a speed and attitude perspective and as I said in the OP, the run D looks better.

Imo until MO and HoneyB are starting and getting regular snaps, we won't be able to see the defense at it's full potential. Those two are vets who have seen everything the NFL has to offer and that experience will be vital to how far this defense can go. The run D and pass rush looks very decent imo so we just need the secondary to at least perform at an average to decent level.

People have to understand improvement won't happen overnight. This will be a work in progress, and what counts is where we are by the time the playoffs start.

If we're better against the run (which early indicators say we are), and have a decent pass rush (Clark, Okafor, Jones and Kpass should be good), we'll be better overall than last year and get a few more stops. That's what we need.

I'm not expecting the 85 Bears' D. I am expecting a top 15 defense by the playoffs.

The defense looks like an actual NFL defense this year. Not elite, but not a a dumpster fire either. Just a typical NFL defense. Last year was BAD. I think people are forgetting how bad that forecast looked this time last year.


-Scrambling for Scrandrick around this time.
-People still were hoping Eric Berry was going to return early in the season (LOL)
-They begged Ron Parker to come back AND HAD TO START HIM even though everyone on Earth knew he was done/terrible
-Sorenson broke his thigh.

The whole thing really revolved around "Oh Berry will be back, early, week 3, then week 6, then week 9, then maybe playoffs." This time last year he was "Day to Day"

Just like the Colts did now with Luck. "Oh it's just a calf issue, we are optimistic for week 1." Oh really, you are.

You don't have any of that this year with this defense. Your prized FA high paid cornerstones are all healthy and PLAYING. Once they all start flying around and figure it out they will be okay.

Honey Badger >>>>> Berry

Thornhill > Lucas

Breeland + Mo Claiborne > Nelson/Scandrick

Frank Clark + Okafor >>>> Houston/Ford (against the run)

Frank Clark + Okafor = Houston/Ford (pass rush)

Hitchens in 4-3 > Hitchens in 3-4

Spaggs > Sutton

Kpass in 4-3 >>>>> Kpass in 3-4



I really am expecting significant improvement as the season goes on. What matters the most is how these guys play once January begins.

I think we need to change our lens here in terms of what we’re seeing the defense or what we think the defense needs to be.

This is an offensive juggernaut and the franchise is built around the offense. They aren’t going to be nor do they really need a dominant defense. It’s just not gonna happen.

But, they’re trying to really develop a different defensive mindset which is the beat thing they could do. Play fast aggressive physical football.

They aren’t gonna be the 85 bears. That’s fine. Force turnovers, get some stops and be aggressive

If you give up some scores, shit happens

The main thing I'm seeing is this D still likes to give away third downs. But it's still stronger than a Sutton defense

Just had a chance to watch the game, and while I always treat pre-season as a glorified practice, I actually am encouraged by what I've seen.

Since everybody is vanilla (offenses and defenses), the only thing I really take is how a team rallies around the ball. When the opposing offense runs, I've seen a lot of red jerseys holding the point of attack, and basically man-handling the opposing line. Run defense is about toughness, and this team has shown that.

In regards to the pass defense: I can't definitively say at this point if they will or won't be better. But pass defense should get better than what we've seen so far due to scheming better. There's definitely not as many wide open receivers, so again, encouraging to me. Perhaps they can shore up the third down issue once they go through an actual game plan and install period.

With all that said, there are definitely good signs that this defense can make some improvement and give our offense 2 - 3 extra touches a game

Also note that, as soon as Mahomes leaves the game, our offense goes 3 and out....that's not going to happen too often in the regular season. We'll have many sustained drives, which will give our defense a chance to rest, recover, and adjust to what the other teams are doing.

In short, I think we'll be OK

This.

Looks different but the results are similar.

The DL and LBs are collapsing running lanes which is a nice shift. Guys are flying to the ball carrier, not as many missed tackles.

Less pressure on the QB and the secondary is still garbage. Breeland is trash and Thornhill has a ways to go. Any veteran QB is likely to eat us alive.

3rd down defense still leaves a lot to be desired.

It's preseason, though. I remember being worried about the offense after last year's preseason and look how that turned out.

I think this D has some issues that they need to address, but in NO WAY do they remind me of Sutton's D. That’s just a really poor take.

100% Truths

I think that they will gel into what we need.

Biggest hurdles? Getting off the field on third down, and good run defense. We can't allow sustained drives that keep PM on the sidelines.

See first half of the AFCCG.

BINGO!

If we had the 30th ranked defense instead of 31st we would have probably played in the Super Bowl last year. Holy crap, if we even move up 3 or 4 spots we have chance to go all the way. I'd be happy if they could just be in the upper half of defenses instead of the bottom two. Also, **** you grandpa Bob ****ing Sutton.

I'm a little worried about stopping crossing routes or throws to the TE on 3rd and mid. I don't think Spags has shown many blitzes during pre-season. It's been pretty vanilla. If two or three games in we're still allowing a 50% conversion rate on 3rd down, I'll be worried. I think Frank Clark will be terrific as an edge rusher. He beat Staley like a rented mule in the sack he got last night. Staley is a future HOF tackle.

That's where those two interceptions that Speaks had on Maahomes can come into play. The surprise drop of a d-lineman into that crossing route on a zone blitz an sometimes catch the offense by surprise.

The run defense has greatly improved compared to last season. I liked Thornhill's play. He got beat a couple of times but it was more him covering two guys at the same time since the cornerback was out of position. I also liked Claiborne's play. He looked solid and created little separation with the opposing receivers. Breeland was decent as well. You add Fuller to the mix and our corners are not as bad as some here think. Ward did look awful though.

This. The defense does not need to be great. Mediocre will be good enough.

I'm not worried at this point:

A: Generally, across the NFL, offenses are ahead of defenses. Defense is de-emphasized by today's NFL rules. Even in training camp, the rules limit certain skill needs for actual games, like live tackling. Communication on defense is slower to develop especially if 1. a new scheme, 2. a new coach (staff), 3. new primary players. We have all of that.

B: Its mostly the base defense. The point of pre-season isn't about winning games, its about putting players in roles with the most basic of assignments and noting how well they perform in that structure. Can they do their job without much cover to shore up weaknesses in game simulation? Now's the time to sort that out while putting together the 53.

C. Because its base defense, you're not going to get to see the exotic elements of this scheme, most notably the stunts Spags and Daly are known for. Its just not important enough to wow us in pre-season and then give Jax tape to prepare for.

D. What are teams going to try and do to us? They're going to try and take the air out of the ball, which means a lot of rushing attack. The fact the defense in its base scheme looks so much more aggressive in its base defense than the past is a really encouraging sign.

E. Getting comfortable in the zone coverage scheme. Piggybacking off of A, the communication in the backfield will come the slowest, and it will be frustrating at times. Our best hope is that it starts to gel in the last quarter of the season. Many former players under Spags say it takes a season to really digest his defense. That's OK, because we have an offense to cover for the adjustment period. We have to think more like the Patriots in this regard. They're never the same team in the first portion of the season as they are in the last part of the season. If we have steady (but slow) improvement, and then it clicks at the end, that is what we want.

If you're looking for the defense to be world beaters out of the gate, you're going to be disappointed. Try and keep in mind there's a lot of change to adjust from a unit ranked 31 out of 32. This offense was a defensive pre snap brain fart from going to the Super Bowl. Its not going to take much to really give this team the edge on everyone else.

Question guys, should Kpassagnon start?

He’s been great in the preseason. I think he is outplaying both Speaks and Okafor.

I'll reserve judgement until later in the season. Even Spags himself said it takes a few regular season games to gel. But it doesn't look good so far. This clearly isn't going to be a top tier defense. Just gotta hope they're middle of the pack at least.

Thornhill hasnt looked good to me in the spots I've seen. That's probably been the most disappointing thing for me because I had hoped he would hit the ground running and be an immediate playmaker. It appears he's not as far along as we'd hoped.

Okafor is stout vs the run and will likely play on early downs. KPass has taken advantage of some athletic mismatches in pass rush, but he gets washed too easily in the run game.

Kpass has looked really good all around. Okafor has looked good too, but he's had a lot less snaps.

Speaks is done for the year, right?

That's kind of what they were hinting on 810. Tim Grunhard said "expect some bad news on Speaks soon".

:thumb: