Congress ruled that PPP forgiveness won’t be taxable.

https://blogs.claconnect.com/agribus...p-forgiveness/

That's extremely kind of them

Sorry, but the IRS is saying otherwise;

Yes, the PPP loan/grant is not taxable, BUT....you can't claim the EXPENSES paid by the PPP.

&*^$#^^^&!!*)+*

We are still paying taxes.

Politicians didn't expect this stunt from the Treasury Dept and state they will close that loophole.

"This notice provides guidance regarding the deductibility for Federal income tax
purposes of certain otherwise deductible expenses incurred in a taxpayer’s trade or
business when the taxpayer receives a loan (covered loan) pursuant to the Paycheck
Protection Program under section 7(a)(36) of the Small Business Act (15 U.S.C.
636(a)(36)). Specifically, this notice clarifies that no deduction is allowed under the
Internal Revenue Code (Code) for an expense that is otherwise deductible if the
payment of the expense results in forgiveness of a covered loan pursuant to section
1106(b) of the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES Act), Public
Law 116-136, 134 Stat. 281, 286-93 (March 27, 2020) and the income associated with
the forgiveness is excluded from gross income for purposes of the Code pursuant to
section 1106(i) of the CARES Act."

Question for Buehler-Say the markets tank this year and I have to lower cash rent next year. It is all pandemic related. Will I be able to claim anything? Will there be anything there? Am I SOL?

Maybe it is time to talk to my accountant for Next Years issue.

My understanding is the only covid related stuff is related to employees.

I think you’re just SOL. I’d wait and see what provisions come out from the money they allocated to Ag. Maybe they’re already out - I’ve been pretty swamped and haven’t paid attention. Your best hope is that you don’t have to lower rent.

Sister and I are already talking about it as a good faith act.

I used a smallish credit union 8 days from apication to final paperwork. My accountant recommended staying away from big banks.

If I could start the process over, I'd have done the same. I figured in the first days of the process that most banks were only working with their own customers. Being first come, first serve I jumped in line with BOA and got my app in.

Fortunately, it appears that I'm FINALLY going to be funded...got my promissory note yesterday morning and should have the funds in the next day or two.

That being said, I haven't talked to a single person that used a big bank that had a quick and smooth process. Across the board, it appears that the little banks were way ahead of the curve, easier to deal with and certainly more transparent. My final timeline will be application on 4/4, documents uploaded 4/7, and then 17 days from that point until confirmation that my application is complete, another 5 days until email saying it has been submitted to SBA, and now acknowledgement that everything is good. So approximately 30 days from start to funding.

So I am assuming if you are in an LLC with several others you only need to report the amount paid out to you when filing unemployment? What if you only pay out monthly?

I should have read the article better. Yeah. I’m going to guess congress will try and change the language. Whether they will or not remains to be seen.

Typically loan forgiveness is taxable and any associated expenses deductible. So congress came out and said they won’t be taxable so Treasury said that expenses used won’t be deductible.

Which is not awesome. For anyone except auditors.

Presume rent is due in Dec or Jan? For sure wait until you see what the program looks like. If it’s due in May or something maybe let them defer it and see how the year goes.

So my wife’s company used Chase bank. They royally ****ed up their portal and paperwork so my wife’s company could not get a loan in the first rd.

Their company is in the process of moving everything to a new bank.

I'm in the process of doing the same thing. Chase and BofA is dead to me at this point.

Buehler-We have this years first payment, waiting for second in Oct/Nov. Leases have to be negotiated and signed by Nov 1. Iowa laws.

I had some Wells Fargo stock in my IRA, and I finally sold it to protest the fact that they're just f*****g evil. I ashamedly kept the stock after the scandal where they were opening credit accounts in people's names, but now that it's emerged that they screwed over small businesses in the ppp to make more processing fees, they're dead to me. (And I didn't apply to the ppp through them just to show that it's not personal.)

I'll probably do the same with some US Bank stock since they've been accused too. I don't have previous proof that they're evil so I'm waiting to see what happens there.

Wells Fargo is everything that's wrong with the American financial system. I wish every company in America would pull their business and put that company out of business.

Couldn’t agree more. :thumb:

HEADS UP!!!

SBA will begin accepting new Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) and EIDL Advance applications on a limited basis only to provide relief to U.S. agricultural businesses.


Notice: New Eligibility for Economic Injury Disaster Loan and Advance
In response to the Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, small business owners in all U.S. states, Washington D.C., and territories were able to apply for an Economic Injury Disaster Loan advance of up to $10,000. This advance is designed to provide economic relief to businesses that are currently experiencing a temporary loss of revenue. This loan advance will not have to be repaid. SBA will begin accepting new Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) and EIDL Advance applications on a limited basis only to provide relief to U.S. agricultural businesses.

The new eligibility is made possible as a result of the latest round of funds appropriated by Congress in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Agricultural businesses includes those businesses engaged in the production of food and fiber, ranching, and raising of livestock, aquaculture, and all other farming and agricultural related industries (as defined by section 18(b) of the Small Business Act (15 U.S.C. 647(b)).
SBA is encouraging all eligible agricultural businesses with 500 or fewer employees wishing to apply to begin preparing their business financial information needed for their application.


At this time, only agricultural business applications will be accepted due to limitations in funding availability and the unprecedented submission of applications already received. Applicants who have already submitted their applications will continue to be processed on a first-come, first-served basis. For agricultural businesses that submitted an EIDL application through the streamlined application portal prior to the legislative change, SBA will process these applications without the need for re-applying.

Eligible agricultural businesses may apply for the Loan Advance here.

Kind of a weird, but somewhat expected, side affect of all the shutdowns.....

Now that things are opening back up slowly, we are gaining some new customers because they are having trouble getting their staff to come back to work. These people are getting their $600/week from unemployment and they don't want to give it up. So, companies are looking for alternatives to handling their phones - which is where we come in.

We've picked up around 5 new customers because of it in the last 3 days. Most recent was an attorney just north of us who was referred to us by his son, who is good friends with a customer of ours in Florida. Also picked up another restaurant in Seattle.

Also heard the same is going to be true of related payroll taxes....the forgiveness on the tax portion will be treated as income....

I would wait. Things can turn around before corn and beans come in.

Just a heads up, communicate what you’re doing and why. And that it won’t happen every time he gets a stroke of bad luck. You know your tenant better than I do. Just be clear about expectations.
Thanks man. I’ve been busy getting fisted by the weather. Much appreciated.

So sick of this rain. I have a butt ton of plants inside that I need to move outside, but it won't stay dry long enough for the ground to be tillable.

I got accepted for PPP loan.


There is still loan money out there.

Heads Up, the guidance for PPP FORGIVENESS has finally arrived.

http://www.sba.gov/about-sba/sba-new...ss-application

Heads up, MAJOR changes in PPP use and forgiveness and repayment.

senate-passes-changes-to-small-business-ppp-loan-program

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...p-loan-program

Hope everyone has been surviving well....and thanks Mr. Trivers for posting this

Here is the link to the actual bill if anyone wants some "light" reading!

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/7010/text

but the point is that they are making every effort to ensure most of these loans are forgiven, which was the original intent to begin with!

Got a buddy who started in the middle of January as a 1099 employee. Is he eligible for the PPP?

My hunch is that a 1099 employee wouldn't be eligible. Those are technically contract positions.

Is that due to him not working as a 1099 employee in 2019? Because I am a 1099 employee and I was able to get the loan. Im considered and independent contractor.

Oh, sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you hired him as a 1099 for a company you own and were asking if you could get a loan on him.

I would think a 1099 person could apply on his/her own since they're self-employed.

I wish I could help more on this, but since I deal with small businesses, my focus has been entirely on qualified businesses.

From what I do know, if you are an independent contractor, you can apply for a PPP loan if you qualify, but I'm ignorant on the qualification requirements or how to calculate the loan amount.....

What little amount I can find on the matter is not very clear. Will probably have him just call his bank.

How could you do this to me. I hate being misunderstood!

Here's an email I just got from my bank. Sorry for the formatting....




Good morning!

Quite a few updates and changes have emerged as of late last week. President Trump signed legislation adjusting the Paycheck Protection Program. Below is a nice summary that was sent out by the ICBA (Independent Community Bankers of America) this morning.

Additionally, we have been made aware of an online resource to assist with the preparation of the forgiveness calculations. This recourse is being recommended highly throughout the industry. I am sure they will be making adjustments to the calculations with the new legislation signed, but this could be a very useful tool for you in the process of completing your PPP forgiveness application.

Link: https://www.ppp.bank/

From their website: PPP.BANK is a free, secure resource for small businesses, non-profits, and sole proprietors across the United States who received a Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loan and are now applying for forgiveness. This website automates the 11-page forgiveness application and results in a .pdf that can be provided to the lender.

ICBA Article: New legislation looks to address PPP restrictions
Jun 05, 2020
On June 5, President Donald Trump signed legislation to address restrictions on the Small Business Administration’s (SBA) Paycheck Protection Program (PPP).
While further guidance and clarification from the SBA and Treasury is likely, here is a summary of the provisions that appear in the Paycheck Protection Program Flexibility Act.
Specifically, the law:
• Extends the covered period during which the loan may be used for forgivable expenses from eight weeks following disbursement of the loan to 24 weeks from loan disbursement or Dec. 31, 2020, whichever is earlier. Borrowers who received loans before June 5 may elect to continue using the eight-week covered period.

• Lowers the amount that must be spent on payroll costs from 75 percent to 60 percent. The new 60 percent threshold is now a cliff, meaning that borrowers must spend at least 60 percent on payroll or none of the loan will be forgiven.

• Extends the period in which employers may rehire or eliminate a reduction in employment, salary, or wages that would otherwise reduce the forgivable amount of a PPP loan to Dec. 31, 2020. However, the forgivable amount will be determined without regard to a reduction in the number of employees (compared to Feb. 15, 2020) if the recipient is (1) unable to rehire former employees and is unable to hire similarly qualified employees by Dec. 31, or (2) unable by Dec. 31 to return to the same level of business activity that existed before Feb. 15, 2020, due to compliance with federal requirements or guidance related to COVID-19.

• Replaces the six-month deferral of payments due under PPP loans with deferral until the date SBA pays the lender the amount of loan forgiveness. If a borrower fails to apply for loan forgiveness within 10 months after the last day of the covered period for forgiveness, the borrower must begin to make payments of principal, interest, and fees on its PPP loan.

• Establishes a minimum maturity of five years for new PPP loans as opposed to the current two-year maturity date. The five-year maturity takes effect on the date of enactment and will apply to any PPP loan made on or after June 5. Lenders and borrowers, however, may mutually agree to modify the maturity terms of prior-disbursed PPP loans.

• Eliminates a provision that makes PPP loan recipients who have PPP debt forgiven ineligible to defer payroll tax payments.

• The final date to obtain a PPP loan remains June 30, 2020.

This law will likely be subject to additional guidance by SBA and Treasury. Small-business borrowers should have a firm understanding of the provisions above and any related guidance to ensure they meet the criteria for loan forgiveness.

Please note that the last part of the article is of high importance. With the changes, it is highly likely that there will be additional guidance from the SBA and the Treasury. As that guidance emerges, I will forward out for your review.

IT's BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCKKKKKKK!

EIDLs for non-agri is being accepted again.

This will be the last time EIDL funding will be open....according to the media.

So jump in quick.

https://www.sba.gov/page/disaster-loan-applications

I had three smaller companies that I didn't submit the first time as I was focused on the primary PPP. But I've submitted and go to bed happy. :)

Just got mine accepted yesterday for the EIDL I applied for back in Feb.

They won't like it if you spend it all on wine, ponies, and loose women.

So just applied for EIDL. How long does it take to get the advance?

Hopefully no one here got their business burned to the ground or looted.

weeks. that was in the beginning.

I faced some financial issues due to the quarantine and had to get a small loan for my business. Unfortunately, my credit score doesn't allow me to get a bank loan, so bad credit loans online seemed to be the only way out. Of course, I paid my debt off as quickly as I could. And I know that many people are skeptical about such loans, but it really helped me.

So how is everyone doing?

Shit got busy with fieldwork and I pretty much quit paying attention.

I did get my PPP loan forgiven, which may not be a great deal, depending on what they do with the second round. But I am excited about them allowing us to deduct the expense yet.

I didn't have any stored grain, so I didn't get any of the CFAP money, but CFAP2 I was eligible for based on insured acres. That helped.

Is anyone doing the second round of PPP?

I need to do some research on these payroll credits. Does anyone have the skinny on that? I'm probably out because of related party, but I need to figure it out nonetheless.

I didn't get an EIDL, but Dad did. We'll see how that plays out.

Good bump. I got my loan forgiven, too.

If they are allowing us to deduct the expense, holy shit that's a very nice bonus.

I need to call about the second round of PPP.

Yeah. They passed that recently. Make sure your tax preparer knows. Essentially it is a tax free grant. I don't know why they didn't go down that road to start with. It would have been a hell of a lot easier than trying to keep track of which expenses you used in the PPP loan so you can take them off the return.

But whatever. I'm happy.

I have several clients that are eligible and putting packages in for round 2.....

I was VERY concerned about the expense reduction clause, but held out faith that the intention of the original PPP wasn't to give money in advance only to screw the participant later.....thank goodness that common sense prevailed.

Haven't dug into the new PPP parameters as much as the old one (been very busy lately), but one question that came up yesterday was whether the first loan had to be forgiven in order to qualify for the second round.....I honestly didn't know and haven't had time to research. Anyone know the answer to this?

What I'd heard (not verified) was that if you had it forgiven you couldn't get PPP2.

That doesn't sound right. So I have no idea.

Yeah....my understanding, with next to no direct research, was that the first didn't impact the second, so long as you met the qualifications of the second.

So, regardless of what is going on with the first loan, you can still get the second so long as you meet the requirements.

With that said, I could see where if you didn't qualify for loan forgiveness the first time around (which basically means you didn't use it to cover labor costs), then why would they give you a second tranche? Just didn't know if that was the official position....

I do know that most of the clients that we're helping with the second PPP did get the first PPP, so what you say isn't the case (again, with no direct research). You should be able to get #2, again so long as you meet the qualifications to do so (p.s. second round is much more restrictive to smaller business and there is a loss demonstration).

I've had my paperwork ready to go for 6 months from the first round of PPP. We've offered it to the bank, but they don't want it yet - so mine still hasn't been "forgiven".

Just looked into the 2nd round of PPP to see if we qualify, and because of the "Experienced a 25% revenue reduction", I don't believe we qualify for it.

So did some reading just a bit ago about the SBAs rulings on the 2nd PPP loan. So if your loan is gonna be under $150,000 then you don't have to show a reduction in income.

Do you have a link to that by chance?

Here's a bit of clarification I found...

"In addition to not having to submit any documentation, for loans under $150k, you don’t have to provide documentation of the 25% reduction with the application. You just need to provide it at the time of applying for forgiveness."

So I got this from here.

Am I reading this right, that if I have any quarter in 2020 that's less than the same quarter in 2019, I'm eligible for PPP2?

I think you are reading this correctly.....this is similar language the SBA uses for EIDL loans ties to hurricane damage, natural disasters, etc.

A little over a year later, wanted to check in on everyone. How did the year go?

I died from teh Covid a few times. Other than that, it went swimmingly.

Busier than ever.

Need two employees badly. Hoping for a Mennonite miracle.

We broke all kinds of revenue records over the past twelve months. We had a 3-4 week downturn last March/April and sales have been insane ever since. Pre-covid there were 31 of us and now there are 36. Adding five jobs during a pandemic is pretty cool.
It has been extremely difficult trying to keep up with COVID requirements and best practices but we've gotten through. I've mostly had a great supporting cast. One shithead threatened legal action over us just trying to keep everyone as safe as possible. I no longer employ him, for a completely unrelated reason, of course.

:)

Who hasn't died once or twice from Covid?

This is great to hear. We had similar experience. Started out with 31 employees, now up to 36 because the volume is just crazy. Bought & remodeled a new building to expand into. Glad to hear others have had success this past year. I know local contractors & such are booked out just from the volume of jobs they are getting.

Better than I expected. I ended up in the black despite having no business producing a single dryland bushel. Lucky is better than good.

Prices have recovered. That helps. Steel prices have put a stop to the machinery upgrades I was going to make. That doesn’t help. Got my fertilizer bought right (it has went crazy) and some chemical bought right.

All in all I’m pretty fortunate.

I'd say a lot of my clients were very fortunate for sure.....I'd like to think I helped with that. But there were a few that were severely damaged.....all survived though, and have a fighting chance....but that may only go so far as PPP will take them.

any employee threatens legal action against his employer, especially over trying to promote workplace safety deserves to be fired. For a completely different reason, of course. . ;)

Hopefully things turn around for them.

Just got a PPP Loan LMAO

#socialism

https://media.tenor.com/images/73937...e324/tenor.gif

Unfortunately they literally just ended new applications. Got in in the nick of time!

Business would be going much smoother if they'd kick a bunch of lazy mother****ers off unemployment.

I did, but I didn't know it until they did the autopsy to diagnose me

LMAO

the PPP loan forgiveness process is ****ing awesome if you have a smaller loan and you're a sole proprietor or independent contractor

literally when you're ready for forgiveness THEY contact YOU and send you the form filled out and you just have to sign it

boom done, free money 4u

LMAO

you don't even have to submit any bank statements...not a single document

it's not a loan...it's a grant...and it's not taxable....which means i paid next to nothing in taxes this year LMAO