ChiefsPlanet - I am not a fan of Veach's "tier" approach.

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- - I am not a fan of Veach's "tier" approach. (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=338150)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 15661065)

Even though I think Nick Bolton is a high floor/low ceiling player, I don’t mind him. He will take over for Hitchens and save money which has value. I don’t think he’s gonna suck by any means.

Meanwhile watching this team draft these awesome athletes in college who underwhelmed and didn’t do jack shit in a Chiefs uniform has been as true as death and taxes.

Eddie Freeman
Turk McBride
Tank Tyler
Junior Siavii
Tyson ****ing Jackson
Alex Magee
Dontari Poe-he lived up to his draft status for 1 year
Tanoh Kpassagnon
Khaulen Saunders

All these guys had a singular trait or combo of elite athleticism, elite strength, elite size and they all sucked. I didn’t list Speaks fat ass but he was touted ass this strong and tough. We saw how that worked out.

Meanwhile Tamba, DT, Houston and even Jones all dominated in college. They had good production and ****ing owned some mother****ers. Like they straight up raped college lineman. Even Dee ****ing Ford flashed a lot and had good production in college and had value here for a time until he royally ****ed up.
Yes I’d even put Allen Bailey on that list. He was very productive in college.

Only DL that I can remember that was awesome in college and let me down was Glenn Dorsey.

Generally I’m just tired of seeing the underwhelming college DL get drafted not for what they are but what they could be. It just doesn’t seem to work out at that position for us.

That’s why I wanted the ND kid

There’s so much wrong in this post, I don’t even know where to begin.

1. None of the guys on that entire list are in the same stratosphere as Kaindoh in terms of athleticism and pedigree. Can we stop comparing him to the likes of Tanoh? It’s ****ing lazy and 100% dumb.

2. Most of those guys also weren’t even drafted by the current regime and weren’t high upside big swings by any means. This attempt to use them as some sort of example is a huge reach and comes off desperate.

3. Dontari Poe was good for more than one year.

4. Khalen Saunders flashed as a rookie then got lost in the shuffle in a deep group after getting injured. It’s a little premature to say he sucks.

5. All of the successes you mentioned were early picks. You want that kind of talent/upside in round 4 at a position like edge rusher? That’s Kaindoh.

6. Chris Jones was not a very productive player in college. That’s revisionist history.

7. Although I was also a fan, there’s probably a reason Ogundeji went almost 40 picks after Kaindoh. As his nfl.com profile says, “a backup role could be his absolute ceiling”.

There is zero chance the Chiefs front office drafted Bolton where they did if they think he's only a "two-down player." If Hitchens can be this team's dime linebacker, (see AFC Championship game against Buffalo), then Bolton certainly can fill that role. If you project Bolton to play MIKE in 2022 and call the defense, the C- grade in the OP does not compute. It's one of the most important positions on the defense, especially in a scheme that wants to shift alignments pre-snap (also, see AFC Championship against Buffalo).

Well looks like the Arrowhead Pride guys you all hate are going to work for BJ Kissel at Let it fly media so there will be a new group of Arrowhead Pride analysts for you to hate soon enough LMAO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 15660380)

I have a different itemization as you as to why we lost the Super Bowl.

Pretty high up the list is that we couldn't get pressure on Brady.

So to answer your question: they're not that much worse. Are they that much better?

I think we lost because we couldn't score...

The Chiefs put so much pressure on other teams to score points, its the only game I've seen with Mahomes at QB that our opponent didn't deal with the pressure to keep scoring points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 15661082)

Some of your points have merit, so I'm curious how would you have chosen differently considering how the draft played out?

I may have proffered the following:

Bolton, better value over Basham and Marshall.

Humphrey, another potential 1st rounder in the late 2nd.

Ihmir Smih-Marsette instead of Kaindoh would have been my first adjustment.

Wallow instead of Gray, I like Gray a lot but Wallow has pass rush and completes our LB core

Ogundeji over Powell, is there a big difference between Ogundeji and Kaindoh?

Trey Smith was a steal here, potential future starter in the 6th.

The problem with Ihmir Smih-Marsette is that he's not a great locker room guy. Not sure he would have been a good fit here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 15661358)

Well looks like the Arrowhead Pride guys you all hate are going to work for BJ Kissel at Let it fly media so there will be a new group of Arrowhead Pride analysts for you to hate soon enough LMAO

I don’t hate all of them. I honestly like Craig Stout.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 15660180)

You guys are absolutely sleeping on the DE position.

They passed on a WR and DE in Rd 2 bc of prospects like Powell and Kaindoh who would be there later. I wasn’t a big fan of Kaindoh, but I think they are going to bring him along slowly and sign a FA like Ingram.

Next year they absolutely need to make DE a big priority. And I think they will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 15660180)

You guys are absolutely sleeping on the DE position.

The value wasn't there. After the mini run at the end of the 1st, there wasn't much to choose from.

They got 2 guys in the 2nd that will make immediate impacts. I don't know what more you want. You don't just draft any old DE because it's a need. You still have to consider player value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wachashi (Post 15661194)

Exactly.

Bolton is going to replace Hitchens. He's a 3-down player and your future defensive signal caller.

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 15661084)

6. Chris Jones was not a very productive player in college. That’s revisionist history.

Breeland Speaks was more productive in college than Chris Jones. Let that sink in for a minute.

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 15661377)

I don’t hate all of them. I honestly like Craig Stout.

Stout is the best one and I can handle Swanson for the most part. Matt Lane would be fine if he didn’t come across as a “know it all” douche. Plus his voice is annoying as ****.

For instance. He gave the draft a B+.....if you swap Kaindoh and Smith to the two 2nd round picks and take Bolton in the 4th and Humphrey in the 6th. With where they got picked at? It was a C.

Then goes on to say that value goes out the window once they’re taken because the draft pick has been used. Well which is it then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 15661429)

Breeland Speaks was more productive in college than Chris Jones. Let that sink in for a minute.

Chris Jones was primarily a DT while Speaks primarily played DE while moving around at DT.

A DT isn’t going to have DE sack numbers in majority of cases.

Plus like I also said, you turn on the tape and you see the talent. The guy was throwing LSU guys to the ground and looked like a grown ass man out there in the SEC. he was a monster.

Speaks did not look anywhere near as talented as Jones. He popped a few times. Jones flashed all over the place in his tape

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 15661455)

That was exactly my point. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 15658637)

And this is why I hate tiers.

The idea that a guy is in a lower tier clearly denotes him as a step down— but some of these guys aren’t huge steps down.

And if you gave me the choice of an A linebacker and a C passrusher, or an A passrusher and a C linebacker, I know which one is take.

I understand the logic, but you are missing part of the equation...Spags defense is hard to learn, who are you going to play at MLB next year to call the defense when we are forced to cut Hitchens?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 15661082)

Some of your points have merit, so I'm curious how would you have chosen differently considering how the draft played out?

I may have proffered the following:

Bolton, better value over Basham and Marshall.

Humphrey, another potential 1st rounder in the late 2nd.

Ihmir Smih-Marsette instead of Kaindoh would have been my first adjustment.

Wallow instead of Gray, I like Gray a lot but Wallow has pass rush and completes our LB core

Ogundeji over Powell, is there a big difference between Ogundeji and Kaindoh?

Trey Smith was a steal here, potential future starter in the 6th.

We need a 3rd down pass rusher more than a WR... The line, and perhaps Callaway and Powell, will make this receiving corp look much better. Kaindoh's upside dwarfs Ogundeji's...

I'm a Hawk fan and I wouldn't draft Smith-Marsette for his potential detrimental attitude.