Paul Skenes is dealing today against the Cubs. Just mowing guys down.
Wasn't ever really much thought that he wouldn't.
Skenes is gonna be real good. I mean, until a 'performance optimizer' gets ahold of him, tweaks his mechanics to make him throw 102 and then he breaks down the same as every other pitcher in the game right now.
Getting awfully bummed out by the number of young pitchers that get turned to hamburger out there.
WhawhaWhat
05-17-2024 01:39 PM
The velocity and spin rate that the teams are looking for is destroying arms. The teams don't care because they'll just bring up the next guy plus it keeps salaries down because they aren't going to pay guys with an arm that's shot. I'm surprised that the union hasn't done more to protect the players and their earning potential.
ChiefsCountry
05-17-2024 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat
(Post 17523844)
The velocity and spin rate that the teams are looking for is destroying arms. The teams don't care because they'll just bring up the next guy plus it keeps salaries down because they aren't going to pay guys with an arm that's shot. I'm surprised that the union hasn't done more to protect the players and their earning potential.
The union only cares about players in their 30s getting that second contract that Boras ****s the teams with.
DJ's left nut
05-17-2024 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat
(Post 17523844)
The velocity and spin rate that the teams are looking for is destroying arms. The teams don't care because they'll just bring up the next guy plus it keeps salaries down because they aren't going to pay guys with an arm that's shot. I'm surprised that the union hasn't done more to protect the players and their earning potential.
It was back in 2015 that I was following the rise of a Cardinal prospect named Alex Reyes. Kid threw 96 with a waterfall curve and hellish movement on his breaking stuff.
He came into camp throwing 101 and everyone was jerking themselves off. And the MOMENT I saw him pitch, I knew he was doomed. Because I, a stupid layperson, could see that he was shoulder-loading. Said it on this very board. I said "man, the Cardinals have him late off so he can add velocity and they've brought his arm slot down (wrecked his curve) and it's going to absolutely destroy him..."
He goes out there smoking minor leaguers and the Cardinals are furiously patting themselves on the back. And again, I'm just sitting here saying "You guys have absolutely ****ed this up. Best pitching prospect we've had in a decade and he's a ticking timebomb..."
He was. He thrown 145 big league innings in 5 years, hasn't pitched since 2021 and is pretty much out of the sport by 29. And had they just let him live at 96/97 with that big curveball and his change he'd have been no worse than a #2 starter for a decade. I saw this trend coming when the Cardinals were so damn proud of themselves for doing it with Reyes almost a decade ago.
If you can take a guy that throws 91 and get him to 95 - I get it. You've taken a AAAA guy and made him a big leaguer, if only for a few years.
But when teams are taking these blue chip arms that naturally throw in the mid-high 90s and then work them over to get to 100+ it's just asinine to me. These guys were going to be really good AND durable. And you've simply traded all possibility for a healthy career for 3 good years of increased velocity.
Hate hate hate hate the way truly good young pitching is handled these days. A guy like Shane Baz, a 3-pitch guy with pristine fastball command, should've been developed to work at 94/95 using command and movement to get outs. He had MORE than enough stuff to be great doing that. But the Rays cranked him up to 11 and immediately broke him.
EDIT: Here it is from May of 2015:
Spoiler!
Quote:
Huge HUGE qualifier, obviously, but that's how good the guy can be. Personally, I don't care for the reports that he's touching 101 on occasion because that tells me that he's overloading his shoulder to add 2-3 mph of velocity, but if it's the kind of thing he's only doing 2 or 3 times/game, I can live with it.
Too many guys go out there in the minors and start shoulder loading on every pitch. It adds velocity but it will absolutely wreck their arms. If I see Reyes cruising at 99, I'll worry quite a bit about his long-term health because he was sitting at 95-97 a year ago. Sure, sometimes maturation adds a little, but that's a rare bird for a guy that was already built like a 27 yr old (as Reyes was). If he's finding extra velocity, that tells me he's scapula loading to get it and it doesn't speak well to his long-term prognosis.
If the kid is cruising at 96 and can get his walk rate down near the 3.5/9 range, he'll be a monster. Obviously 3.5 isn't a premier walk rate by any means, but with his stuff, it will be good enough to be a dynamite pitcher. At 3.5, he can be Sonny Gray.
It's really not hard to find velocity - we've known how to do it for awhile. Teams have just decided they don't give a good god damn about the long-term viability of these arms anymore and then bemoan how many of these kids are breaking down.
It's crocodile tear bullshit.
DJ's left nut
05-17-2024 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry
(Post 17523877)
The union only cares about players in their 30s getting that second contract that Boras ****s the teams with.
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist..."
The most amazing thing the union ever did was convince teams that arm injuries are inevitable.
Teams sign these pitchers to 5 year deals knowing at LEAST one of them is a write-off. They aren't signing these guys to these contracts expecting health over the life of them. They're just amortizing the lost season over the life of the deal.
Like I said - all crocodile tears. Teams don't care about arm health. They publicly say they do and they're looking for ways to keep their guys healthy - they don't. They KNOW how to make guys a hell of a lot healthier than they are. They simply don't bother.
And because everyone breaks down, even the agents don't care much. Hell, a Tommy John surgery is almost a selling point. "Hey, he had his TJ surgery 2 seasons ago - you probably have 4 good years on that elbow until it lets go again..."
It's just gross.
dlphg9
05-17-2024 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut
(Post 17523960)
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist..."
The most amazing thing the union ever did was convince teams that arm injuries are inevitable.
Teams sign these pitchers to 5 year deals knowing at LEAST one of them is a write-off. They aren't signing these guys to these contracts expecting health over the life of them. They're just amortizing the lost season over the life of the deal.
Like I said - all crocodile tears. Teams don't care about arm health. They publicly say they do and they're looking for ways to keep their guys healthy - they don't. They KNOW how to make guys a hell of a lot healthier than they are. They simply don't bother.
And because everyone breaks down, even the agents don't care much. Hell, a Tommy John surgery is almost a selling point. "Hey, he had his TJ surgery 2 seasons ago - you probably have 4 good years on that elbow until it lets go again..."
It's just gross.
That god damn pitch clock is ruining arms!
dlphg9
05-17-2024 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlphg9
(Post 17515385)
I like what I'm seeing from Bobby Witt Jr too! 8 BBs and only 2 SOs in his last 7 games! .304 AVG, .484 OBP, .609 SLG. If he can keep up the high walk numbers than holy shit there is no limit on what he could do.
What do you know. I cursed BWJ. ****ing .371 OPS over his last 7 games.
WhawhaWhat
05-17-2024 07:29 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Throwing it back to 2014 tonight at The K! �� <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Royals</a> <a href="https://t.co/f4XGtfFclP">pic.twitter.com/f4XGtfFclP</a></p>— Bally Sports Kansas City (@BallySportsKC) <a href="https://twitter.com/BallySportsKC/status/1791608426142839278?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 17, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
*****Official 2024 Royals Season Repository Thread*****
(https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=351629)