Originally Posted by Bowser (Post 15658751)

We have more depth across the board right now at nearly every position than we have had in years, maybe excluding corner and receiver, and this team has been to three AFCCG's and two Super Bowls in a row. Not only do I trust in Veach and his guys to do their due diligence researching who to bring into the fold, I trust our positional coaches and coordinators to maximize these guys' abilities and when and where to use them.

Did we reach with a couple of picks when we should have taken someone else? Sure, quite probably. Am I concerned about it? Not in the least. I'm stoked about these picks, every one of them. Even Kaindoh who can start on special teams and learn from Okafor, Taco, Clark, and Danna.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 15658784)

Oh man. Where to start with this post?

Let's start here:

1)99% of the mock drafts and 'expert analysis' bullshit we see is based on rumors and guesses by people who are not and never have been NFL scouts. Most of them are no more qualified than you or I to run an NFL draft room; and you or I are absolutely NOT qualified just because we read what these guys say and watch some YouTube videos.

2) The concept of positional value above all else ignores CONTEXT. Judging an individual draft by that that concept ignores so many variables that are really important like:

A)team needs, which include cap situations regarding veterans going forward, the depth chart and whether this position is likely to see the field any time soon

B)Scheme fit- sure that player may be EDGE RUSHER #6, which is excellent value in the late 2nd round, but he's 245 lbs. and best suited as a 3-4 OLB, and is likely to ONLY be successful as a situational pass rusher in a 4-3 base/heavy nickel like we run here. So no, he's not as valuable as a guy who may play 60 snaps plus a game at a less 'premier' position of NEED.

3)Your premise assumes that there is a huge difference between, say, WR #8 and WR #16. The reality is, because of scheme fit, differences of opinion in scouts rankings, and such WE have no earthly idea who WR #8 even is to any specific team, and the difference between WR #8 and #16 may be a big difference or very little. A lot of times, guys are bunched in very similar talent groups and you don't know what variables make the fit a good one or not. Maybe WR #8 is faster, but he's dumb as a rock and unlikely to be able to digest an Andy Reid playbook. WR #16 is super smart and a better route runner which allows him to play 'quicker' than his 40 time but he played in a dumbed down offense in college so you and I don't know that, but the scouts do and he's a better fit actually than WR #8.

So do you reach for WR #16? You could, and then everybody talks about how stupid you are, because that guy has a fourth round grade, and this guy you passed over was a clear second round talent, yadda yadda yadda. So you wait and you take him where it makes sense to, and in the meantime-

4) KC is picking at the back end of every round. IF they stay with the so-called 'higher value, premier positions' they will forever be drafting lesser talent. This is a formula for a declining team. The system is literally set up that way-to encourage parity and discourage dynasties. If you keep your board open to any position that is a scheme and need fit you can get elite players albeit at 'less valued positions'. Having young, cost controlled elite talent is the key to keeping this SB train running as long as we can with Mahomes. You fill in what you need to in free agency, but the draft is still the foundation.

So, you take WR #8 in the second round, and end up with IOL #30 in round 6 and hope he can be a good starting Center in a couple of seasons because positional value! .This is how you end up with Reiter and Wylie.

But WR#16 was actually an equally good fit for the team and you could wait and grab him in the 4th because he's a really SPECIFIC good fit for this offense more so than some others and your scouts just love him. So you take the LB and the OC in the second because they fit perfect and you can greatly improve two separate position groupings from good to elite.

That's of more value than WR#8.

We need elite young cost controlled talent for now, and for the near future. You don't get that by drafting lower rated players at higher rated positions according to unqualified draftniks.

We got EXCELLENT value in round 2 with late first/early 2nd rated guys at positions of need; and the Offensive line has gone from our biggest weakness to an elite group for this season and seasons to come. The LB corps from our biggest defensive weakness to one with great promise for this season and the near future. We made our team weaknesses into strengths.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 15658854)

"I'm not a fan of Veach's tier aproach"

-hosted 3 straight AFCCG
-won SB54
-went to back to back SB's
-wiped out all team weaknesses in 2 months
-team is well set with the cap situation for the forseeable future.

Yeah, Direckshun

Thanks for weighing in! :thumb:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 15660217)

Also: he hasn't "wiped out all team weaknesses." WE HAVE ONE STARTING DEFENSIVE END ON THE ROSTER.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 15660255)

Oh, I hadn't realized that the time for signing free agents is over.

It's really too bad that they won't be able to add any defensive ends via free agency, player-for-player trades or the waiver wire before the season begins in September.

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 15660280)

The odds of landing a starting DE in a player-for-player trade is just... it's not great.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 15660291)

Huh.

I seem to remember a guy named Emmanuel Ogbah, who was acquired in a player-for-player deal in 2019, who had 7.5 sacks that year.

I also remember Veach doing a player-for-player trade in 2018, which ended up being Chavarious Ward.

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 15660170)

We had holes everywhere.

Still do -- we have at least two holes open at starting positions.

Guys, if Frank Clark goes down, which he has every year we've had him, we're going to be starting Taco Charlton and Mike Danna. And rotating in Tim Ward and Kaindoh.

You guys aren't grasping how big of a hole that is.

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 15660314)

The Chiefs got 3 guys that were legitimately in the 1st round conversation earlier in the process without a 1st round pick.

Direckshun : “I’m not a fan of Veach’s approach”

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 15660205)

1. That's fair.

2. This is fine, and I do understand that some players are of higher value to certain teams that run certain schemes. But let me break this down for you: Nick Bolton is probably not going to be playing passing downs. And if he does, that's not what he was good at for the Tigers. So... you've drafted a two-down linebacker in the Hitchens mold 58th overall, with good passrushers and receivers on the board. That's just not a wise use of resources.

3. I absolutely don't think we should have reached for anyone, ever. Nor am I saying we should pass up on an "A" linebacker for a "C" wide receiver simply because we have a dire need there and WR is more valuable. I'm saying that I had four players on my board -- Dyami Brown, Terrace Marshall, Ronnie Perkins, and Carlos Basham -- who were all valuable at the low 2nd picks, who all played valuable positions that we had desperate needs at, and we punted for a linebacker (which we did need!) who can't play the pass particularly well.

4. All good points, I don't disagree.

But I would have taken Ronnie Perkins and entered the 2021 season with two starting-caliber defensive ends and a competent Blythe at center than further-packing our OL and leaving one DE position wide open, which we've done.

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 15660324)

Terrace Marshall- clearly injury concerns there. We don’t know the medical situation. Maybe give them and all of the other teams that passed on him the benefit of the doubt?

Ronnie Perkins- they clearly didn’t feel he was a fit and it’s easy to see why. He doesn’t fit the profile of a Spags DE at all.

Dyami Brown- based on who the Chiefs went after in free agency, and who they went with in the draft, it’s obvious that they were looking for a type. They wanted somebody big and physical.

Carlos Basham- another guy that doesn’t seem to fit what they’re looking for at the position. They want true defensive ends, not guys that you’re going to need to slide inside to get a pass rush from. We have Jones, Reed, and Wharton. We don’t need more interior pass rush, we need guys that can consistently win outside on the edge.

All of those guys are good players and were guys I liked, but it’s easy to see why the Chiefs went in the direction they did when you actually pay attention and listen as opposed to thinking you know bette than the guys that just went to back to back SB’s and rebuilt their OL in a way any of us could’ve only dreamed of.