Brady walked onto a team who's QB just threw for 5000 yards...

I knew it. Bucs were loaded!

Oh, I definitely agree. I wouldn’t have minded Winston and preferred Dalton to Cam. And clearly having Brady covered a lot of Belichick’s drafting ills. But I’m still not ready to say the past 20 years of success is all Brady.

Gunther Cunningham said it is the player, not the coach.

I think this patriots team would have been pretty bad with Brady.

They are old and the offense is completely devoid of talent.

Remember how the media would suck Bill's dick because of how he stock piled draft picks? Look at Belichick the genius and his awesomeness at acquiring loads of picks every year and recently none of them have amounted to shit.

God damn its worse than I thought. New England hasn't drafted a Pro Bowler since 2013 (Jamie Collins) and haven't drafted an All Pro since 2012 (Chandler Jones). In the last 10 years they've only had 1 AP (Jones x2) and 3 PBs (Collins x ,1 Jones x 3, and Dont'a Hightower x 2).

You can really see how much a HOF QB matters, but it wasn't all Tom or all Bill. Probably 60% Tommy boy and 40% Hoodie Bill.

And he sent both those guys packing.

He hasn't done good recently as a GM but the guy has 6 SB rings. His resume speaks for itself. Saying he sucks is a bit harsh.

How many rings do Chiefs as an organization have in how many years? Just saying out of all shit HCs in NFL, you want to call out BB?

Pats will be back just having a bad year it happens. You think they are going to go 13-3 every year?

They had their time w SBs and now it's over but BB will get them back playing well eventually maybe next season.

You could make an argument for both when it comes to cheating, but I believe the Hood is the bigger fraud. One winning season in his first 6 years - not something that would inspire a lot of confidence in his coaching abilty. So Tommy-boy comes along and it's a match made in heaven. Even with Brady out for the 2008 season, he makes it to the playoffs. Well, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile. But in a classic Machiavellian move, he pulls off the trade of the century, sending both Cassel and an aging Vrabel to the Chiefs, dooming us to years of mediocracy. To add a cherry on top, he talks the young Clark into hiring the only other egomaniac in the Pats front office, one Scoot Peeholi.
Bottom line, even "some members" of this board could win multiple SBs with Brady as their QB.

This is such a ridiculous argument. You’re using a sample size of 6 games when Brady walked into a better situation and Belichick was left with a worse situation to pass judgment on two decades of evidence.

They’re both exceptional talents at what they do. Both possibly the greatest ever in their respective roles. They helped each other.

But if you really want to get into it, what do you think the Patriots record would be if Brady stayed and Belichick left? And what would Tampa’s record be if the Bucs had Belichick as their head coach and let’s say Jimmy G as their QB?

Pretty sure your conclusion would be different then.

Patriots still winning the AFC East. Heading to the casino today to put money on Patriots moneyline vs Buffalo, minimum $1000.

And 30 interceptions.

He has 6 Super Bowl rings BECAUSE of Tom Brady.

He won't win another SB without Brady. It's that simple.

In 7 seasons without Tom Brady, Bill has won an average of 7 games. That includes his 11-5 season in Cleveland and the season with Cassel but does not include this current season since it isn't complete.

It would be one thing if he were an above-500 coach without Brady but he's not.

The NFL revolves around QB's. Is Bill a great coach? Absolutely. But without Brady, he's not a champion.

Just like Andy is not a champion without Mahomes.

QB's are the cake, coaches are the frosting.