So does Billay, apparently...

I'm sure this has been mentioned but isn't this something some teams do? Go for broke for a SuperBowl run and then a few rebuilding years vs. several years of "almost"?

So far they've been proven commodities, but there are many factors that can limit their potential. The percentage of players who've gone onto their second or third team after being dominant, and then being dominant for that team that invested so much money into them, doesn't happen as much as we would like to think it does. Whether it's scheme, not being able to replicate your younger performance, getting paid then giving less of a shit because you got yours, there's many reasons why Frank Clark might've been a stud with Seattle, but won't flourish here, same with Ramsey.

A bunch of those guys went in the second round.....and I'm going to be honest, I'll take Ramsey over a ton of those combos.

Here her and I are back in 2017 - Clay took the picture!

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Wow, I must say you BOTH look scrumdiddlyumptious!

Two 1sts is not good business for us. No way is Ramsey worth that. 1st and a 2nd? Okay 1st, 2nd and a 3rd? Fine.

Two 1sts? I swear to god some of you just want to get raped in trade deals. Let’s hope Veach isn’t going about doing business the way some of you guys want to.


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I think the cap space fear is the new "too risky" to take a QB.

"I am the Walrus? No, it was I am the Walrus."

ROFL

**** U

:thumb:

Since the start of the season-

Ramsey was roasted repeatedly by Sammy Watkins.
Gave Reek a cheap shot while he was down and hurt.
Got into with his coach.
Requested a trade.
Gave a profanity-laced interview where he slammed people in the organization.
And then had another mediocre game against the Titans.

:doh!:

John Dorsey agrees with you.

Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov Lenin! Shut the **** UP, Donnie!!

These picks lack value, do you think by trading pick 30 and 32 we could have moved to 5 to draft him? NO we couldn't have.

That's what some teams do. Mostly teams that don't have elite QBs.

Roasted by Watson? Watson looked like **** and he held Hopkins to low numbers. Your pushing a narrative.

Teams have finally figured out that draft picks don't have great value unless youre picking very high.

The best thing about them is they can sell hope to fans with them.

I have followed along with this for the duration.
Been excited, sad, and to be honest anymore lets be honest is he worth all of this back and forth. He is acting like a damn spoiled rotten kid.
I trust in Reid and Mahomes.

Fixed post- Sammy Watkins.

Watkins burned him repeatedly. Then he cried and threw a hissy fit.

Yes lets judge him by getting beat by this offense.

So is this shit happening or nah?

I’ll take the blue chipper every time

The rest of those guys are 2nd rounders that can be had every year

I don’t think 2 first from kc get it done anyway

Why would Jacksonville do that? Those would be two picks in the early 30s they aren’t very valuable

I still don’t think the Jags are getting two first round picks.

Mack got the Raiders that because he was versatile and he was a saint off the field and the locker room. Ramsey, for all his talent, is an asshole and an outspoken one at that.

Depends which team does the trade

If it’s the chiefs or Seattle or philly it’ll probably take 2 firsts causer those picks aren’t as valuable

Because the other teams might not offer that or because they're also gonna have shitty picks?

The Eagles don't suck, Baltimore is probably in the playoffs, I mean bad teams generally don't make these trades.

Because at some point you either have to take what you can get or be willing to put up with the bullshit for the rest of the season. Coughlin isn’t the type of guy that’s going to change his opinion of someone like Ramsey. Coughlin is old school. Piss him off and you’re dead to him.

They're access to the cream of the cheap player crop.

Then they’ll keep him

They could still win the division and have him for 3 years then tag and trade him

What is his excuse for last night?

By all accounts Mariota was awful- but yet people are posting JR had a down game? :hmmm:

2 out of 3 games have been sub-par, plus his behavior should at least give teams pause to not mortgage their future draft capital.

Plus, he will demand a new contract or will show up at Arrowhead in a Brinks truck and start acting like a dick here.

And I guarantee you that he holds out if they try that route.

I want to keep a malcontent on my team.....then hey Peters should still be here.

He just changed his Twitter profile pic, which showed him wearing Jags gear.

It's now his "J R" necklace pendant.

Does Ramsey and/or Ramsey's agent have any control at all over which team he's traded to?

I'm sure the answer is buried in here somewhere, but I left my hip waders at home.

None what-so-ever, but he can hold out after the trade if he so chooses.

ITS ****ING HAPPENING!!!

His agent is a big deal,he negotiated something insane like 450 million dollars worth of contracts this year.

That's what I figured. Although I assume his agent can make it clear to any team he doesn't want to play for that he would do that.

I keep reading stuff like this like he's literally every week going nuts and has all these off the field issues....the guy wants to win and gets caught up in it and pops off from time to time, not nearly as much as this board will make you think.

Gimme a guy like that every day of the week opposed to some golly gee oh I hope we win today sort of player...

The guy probably thinks winning is nice, but he wants to get paid.

The Eagles just drafted a 1st rd LT who will replace Jason Peters and his almost $9 million cap hit with 1/3 of his price tag the next 3 years. Their 2nd rd pick will replace Nelson Agholor with another cheap rookie contract.

The entire Ravens offense is cheap as hell. Lamar Jackson, Mark Andrews, Hollywood Brown, Hayden Hurst, Justice Hill, Ronnie Stanley, Orlando Brown. They’ve also got a lot of cheap players on defense for the next 2 seasons as well. Matt Judon, Tavon Young, Marlon Humphrey, Chris Wormley.

It’s almost as if drafting well has given these teams the ability to make such a move due to the influx of talent on rookie contracts.

You show that you want to win - On the field- not off it.

His agent was also Eric Berry’s agent who fleeced is out of almost 100 million dollars

He didn't have a down game. He allowed like 3 catches. 1 of them he was beat on though. At worst it was an average game.

No it's not. His agent was Jamaal Charles agent.

Yep. Everyone keeps saying that draft picks don't matter, but they're only thinking of the player's overall value rather than the value of having a player on a cheap contract. We're in the moneyball era, people. You have to consider these things.

Well he's only done that by being the best CB in the game according to almost everyone associated with the league but ok.....

I'm just of the belief that 1st round picks, esp. late in the 1st, don't hold all that much weight any more...there's a ton of talent nowadays in rounds 2-5 that honestly that's where teams make their hay.

It's exactly why I'm ok giving up 1st rounders for someone of Ramsey's caliber.

If the Chiefs trade 2 first rounders, its basically two high second rounders...

Some people downplay the Chiefs' likely 1st as practically a 2nd because it will (hopefully) come at the end of the round. But what they don't say is the Chiefs 2nd round pick is practically a 3rd, and so on down the line. So by giving up your first, you're already missing out on most of that 2nd round talent. It sucks to start your draft in (practically) the 3rd round.

See ^^^^

Good point, however the Chiefs could also regain some draft capital trading other players later on as well.

The team to emulate IMO in recent years is Dallas. Other than QB that team is loaded at nearly every position group other than TE and in the secondary. They've done a good job finding stars in the draft nearly every year the past 4-5 seasons.

Which we've been doing for the last 3 years. Which, as long as we get talented, proven playmakers, is more than fine.

Looking like, even though Jags are "willing to pay Ramsey," he still wants out.

Point is you still have a ton of options after the fact. You can trade a player for draft picks, restructure contracts, and still hit on the draft picks you have. People acting like the future is totally bust if we make this trade and its not.

His beef is with Coughlin and the FO, he wants out...

Yeah you overvalue picks way too much dude. We’re talking about 30-32. Go look at the average pick in those slots the past decade.

If they keep hitting on their day 2 guys like it would seem they have (Nnadi, Thornhill, Hardman), then who cares about pick 32. Those guys all look like better players than what the average late 1st rounder ends up being.

I do find it funny how everybody is saying that since our picks are so late, they're essentially 2nd round picks. But on the flip side, if you have and early 2nd round pick, people will say it's essentially a 1st round pick.

No they won't.

True. There is no one-size-fits-all rule here, it all depends on your current roster and what your future trade/cut/salary cap moves will be. I think this kind of trade can be very useful if used in the right circumstances, but that you shouldn't get into a habit of trading draft picks for established, expensive players.

Yep we can fill our holes with good/great players starting at pick 63 or whatever it will be. Tyreek Hill was a 5th rounder, Kelce was a 3rd, Kareem Hunt was a 3rd, Chris Jones was an early 2nd, Duvernay-Tardif was a 6th, Justin Houston a 3rd, etc.

If you hate giving up two late 1st round picks, just pretend one was a bust and with the other we drafted one of the best CBs in the NFL.

Look I wouldn't trade pick 7 and pick 15 for Jalen Ramsey, but I would trade pick 32 and pick 28.

It's about value and the teams position.

Nah King is right.

Here is the real truth of evaluation: Every draft has like 12-20, MAYBE 25 true 1st round talents based on pre-draft evaluation. Then from like 21-60, all those guys are similarly graded. It becomes much murkier, thus the drop in value of those picks.

The difference in pick 30 and pick 55 isn’t near what many make it out to be. The biggest part of it is the 5th year option, which is rarely used if a player is good enough to be extended anyways.

In reality we won't ever get an elite CB any other way other than pure luck. The guys who grade that way are top 10 picks, then they never make it to FA and if they do you're going to be in a huge bidding war you probably won't win.

This is actually true, the first about 15 guys are where the real gems are, then picks from 15-20 through about 60-70 are all graded very similar.

Much bigger gap from player 8 and player 22 than say player 31 and player 57.

We don't need "the best" CB in the league, though. We need solid CBs. You can get solid CBs late in the first. But we wouldn't have them today or maybe not even next season.

Chiefs have to second rounders for 2020 as well trade your first this year and next years and then trade a second to get back up in the first round if someone is willing to trade out if your guys there. Who knows what happens for the next year, trade someone else for a first who knows this teams good teams will pay high price for players from a sb caliber team.

There are a lot of possibilities.

he is gonna mess around and end up in Oakland when they promise to over pay

Show me guys who are high level CBs who were not drafted highly, even the solid guys were high picks.

When you draft them in the mid rounds and such you are taking a gamble at getting lucky and mean shit Steven Nelson is a successful 3rd round CB and everyone thinks he's terrible.

Mark Ingram and Earl Thomas certainly aren't cheap. Brandon Williams and Tony Jefferson also signed a big deals as well. They've got money tied up believe me.

The only reason the Ravens look like they don't have money is because they lost Mosely and Smith...

They only matter when they hit.

Byron Jones?

Which is why we should want more of those picks. I’m all for trading down and loading up on as many top 100 picks as possible unless there is a bonefide player there we can’t pass up.

Paying guys is tough, but giving up an extreme amount of picks and paying them?

Case and point: Frank Clark apparently sucks here. There’s a thread on it. Okay well who is performing? Tanoh Kpassagnon (1 sack-almost 2 in Oakland-a would be pick) and Ogbah (1 sack). Even though we paid a **** load for Frank, cheap labor is helping mitigate that “so called” error.

Sammy should be gone after this season. No problem. Hardman is here for 3 more years cheap.

Honey Badger is a huge price tag. That’s fine when you have Thornhill here for cheap throughout Honey Badgers contract.

If you want to do this deal and give up picks, fine. BUT do not bitch when we are not making moves like this in 2020 and beyond. I don’t care if the cap is going up. $40 million AAV QB with a lot of other expenditures like Clark, Hitchens, Schwartz, Fisher, Kelce etc.

Cap going up drastically just means player salaries will go up significantly as well. And yes Mahomes new contract will be tough even with the cap going up.

No.

No, what?

He was a 1st round pick..at 27, and he was a safety they moved to CB who was pretty awful for 2 years..didn't move to CB until 18 after being a shitty safety for 2 years.

Is that the trajectory we are working for?

Watkins is gone after this year. Probably will net a 2nd rounder.

If we get Ramsey, Jones is probably gone. He’s worth at least a 1st.

We will get cheap picks back one way or another. But in the meantime it’d be nice to win a ****ing Super Bowl and not get bent over by BB and Brady.

You'd think after 208 wins Andy Reid would be like just make the damn trade I need to win this thing.