Economic conditions were a little better back then...

I think we, as a county, need to hold out for a better deal where all the numbers and guarantees are on the table and understood, then decide.

The existing tax is in effect until '31 so the hard times today aren't ending with a no vote

**orders QuikTrip from Uber Eats

Do people actually do that? I don't...

Very good article, LOVE it. That said this quote concerns me:

"Sherman said during a news conference at Kauffman Stadium. “It’s really, really hard to draft and develop generational talent in this business, and it’s even harder to keep them in the same uniform, and that’s what this is really all about.”"

For the Royals it has been, I'm not sure it's as bad for other teams that are willing to pay to keep their talent and buy other team's talent. So it's wonderful that we kept Witt, but how many teams fear us buying their known/demonstrated talent to surround Witt with?

Maybe I'm asking the wrong question, perhaps the better question is how much cash has he told the team they have to shop and retain talent with?

And I'm actually a bit surprised at how emotional the topic is. Yikes..

Tough times indeed

https://i.imgur.com/zo8jJ27.jpg

I know when I've been in the P&L or close to it, day or night, all I could think about was man this must be what Fallujah was like...

Yeah, I'm not sure which is worse for the sport... the lack of a salary cap or teams not wanting to spend anything.

I think Beltran said he was staying in KC for 23 million/year (or whatever it was) and Glass told his agent "make him stay for 22"... and maybe that one specific story never even happened, but the point being cheap ass billionaire owners suck.

How else are 40 year old dudes who are too fat to even walk going to play out their failed dreams?

Some folks don't give a spit about sports but are tired of constantly being taxed for rich benefit and hobby I like sports and I don't live in Jackson County. So it's their business I suppose.

I do believe that everything they pour money into downtown KC fails. There is a history in it. I think there is more danger in losing the Royals because of Sherman. I think its all about making money not love of baseball in KC. He will sell it all for a huge profit. Thats how shysters work the system.

Wow this thing might actual fail LMAO

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news...eA4lLm73kyPr3c

A pro-stadium poll has it almost even?


LMAO

That's what makes the NFL so great, Salary cap Max and Minimum... Teams can't be cheap and teams can't outspend.

The Chiefs and Royals want it to fail.

Sherman might make more money in Nashville sure.

But there isn't a market left for pro football in the long term..

Is there an actual plan or is it like the airport where they said, trust us... it'll be fine.

As far as I'm concerned, I've paid my dues. let them leave.

Still wondering how the Royals stadium was deemed to be unsafe yet Arrowhead, which was built at the same time by the same people, is fine. I guess you can pay an expert to come up with any conclusion.

Reality is that the 3/8 cent doesn't hurt me yet it's a burden on those people in Jackson county who will never go to a game and can barely afford to live anyways.

This whole thing boils down to trust. People dont trust politicians and slick talkers like Sherman and Lucas

Jackson County homeowners are still steamed over the property tax fiasco a year ago that has yet to be resolved. Pile on Frank White wants to score a get even with the Royals for them passing him over in years past

I dont think the mayor has the credibility he thinks he has. His ego has told him he can do anything and he will be seen as a superstar. But folks are getting tired of his happy ass asking for more and more tax dollars for showboat projects and being promiced the world.

Airport was hard sell and this week we see the first airline leave for lack of business. Then we have the streetcar line that seems to be in constant need for more money. And we have an economy that is not just booming.

People dont believe the K is falling down while Arrowhead shines like new money. That does not pass the smell test for most. And the K s a beautiful baseball stadium.

The whole downtown idea has holes for a lot of people. Parking is a question in spite of the promove crowd saying its a non issue. Then the location sort of has a taint going for it. First it was one place, then maybe north of the river then another, then out of the blue its in the Crossroads. Existing businesses in the Crossroads got blindsided and many still say the Royals, mayor or whomever have not talked to them.

Who benefits from this deal? Mayor Q, Ex mayor Sly, every union contractor involved in tear down and build new, special interests for sure, Sherman stands to make out like Ali Baba and the 40 thieves. People who own the ground where new stadium will go get out of a very marginal realestate area with big bucks as a reward.

The Chiefs benefit but the PR value in a Chiefs improvement is huge, Royals not so much

And the special interest money for community stuff is a payoff to get special interests to back off.

Joe Working guy taxpayer has every reason to be not a fan


All that said, I bet it passes. But the next go round for tax incerreases will pay the price for Shermans gold

I never got my catalytic converter stolen when I went down to power and light... which was way more often than I went to Arrowhead/ Kaufman yet happened to both my dad and I.

It wasn’t even David Glass that said No. It was his Tommy Boy idiot son Dan Glass.

Kc tenants can suck my dick

Go royals

Sherman finds a way to win no matter what probably but there's a lot on the line for Lucas, etc. This fails and the Chiefs have a real shot of moving to Kansas. That's a huge loss for KCMO so that's part of it too. The Royals have not done a good job during this process but the fact that people are acting like Sherman is some kind of slick guy and the Chiefs are innocently sitting back saying "aw shucks" is a little bit weird to me. Mark Donovan is flat out saying they are going to consider leaving KC if this doesn't fly. Sherman hasn't said anything like that.

You couldn't have ****ed this up any harder if you tried. I thought Sherman was a smart businessman?

https://fox4kc.com/news/kcps-disappo...y1ZRLq8Sg80TNk

Perfect example of the shake downs going on led behind the scene by MayorQ. Every wack job group is demanding cash for support and they got it...blood money

And KCTenants are the worst breed

I read HCs post carefully because he doesn't usually babble.

You don't trust the parking and you think the location still need to address about 4 businesses.

Gosh, those are really sad reasons not to revitalize your downtown. LA has a downtown that rolls up at night. Denver's I walk all the time. And if you think it's because I'm a thug, i assure you Rain Man would too.

Fix your shit and all the other stuff you're worried about goes away too. Can't get people downtown en masse without a reason. Can't fix your downtown without people.

JetBlue loses billions of dollars over 5 years, cuts back services out of LAX, Fort Lauderdale, and cuts KC service.

People with an ax to grind:

<a href="https://imgflip.com/i/8k55hn"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/8k55hn.jpg" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a><div><a href="https://imgflip.com/memegenerator">from Imgflip Meme Generator</a></div>

https://flykc.com/newsroom/news-rele...ve-kci-airport


Lucas then:

“While we are always excited about new carriers, I am thrilled to welcome JetBlue as one of our partners at KCI," said Kansas City Mayor Quinton Lucas. "With new nonstops to New York and Boston, our flying public in Missouri, Kansas, and beyond will have more access to vital business and cultural offerings in the Northeast, more Royals victories in the American League East, and to JetBlue’s destination network. In 2017, Kansas City, Missouri made a commitment to an improved airport for our entire region. We’re proud to see our voters’ support bearing fruit. Expect more positive announcements as KCI and Kansas City government help lead our reopening and economic recovery.”

Lucas now: Crickets.....

Not the same thing

Not the one who said it... :shrug:

Jackson County voters should probably listen to the experts.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Royals say a new stadium would create 26K jobs. Economists say it’s ‘a bunch of hot air’ <a href="https://t.co/ZJyUjble8r">https://t.co/ZJyUjble8r</a></p>&mdash; The Kansas City Star (@KCStar) <a href="https://twitter.com/KCStar/status/1772707690944324098?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 26, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sadly too many people in JACO will give in to their threats SEVEN YEARS BEFORE THE LEASE IS UP.

I'm a "no" vote if for no other reason than the team's performance, but I'd be a "no" vote because it's WAAAY to early to be having this conversation AND because you don't have to be an accountant to understand the numbers are a little too unbelievable. If they weren't complete BS we'd have done this exact thing last time they renovated the TSC.

But again, too many JACO voters are afraid of the team moving, even is only over to the Kansas side of the line.

If there's one publication that can be counted on for unbiased, objective reporting that doesn't have an ax to grind, it's the Star.

I prefer to get my voting cues directly from John Sherman personally

I just hope they preserve the crossroads, it's like Paris in the 20's over there.

Some things I'm interested to see broken down but have never seen:

1. the city's earnings tax. If the stadium is downtown, I believe that would lead to the city gaining the 1% earnings tax on every dollar earned by a player during a game at the new stadium. So, for the Royals 81 home games, 1% of those checks for Royals players as well as 1% of the checks of every visiting player.

2. The number of employees downtown within walking distance of the stadium. I have several friends who are excited about the prospect of a Crossroads or East Village stadium, but especially Crossroads, because they can go to work, park in their work garage, and then walk or Uber or streetcar to the potential stadium site. Many of these folks work at employers that would buy season ticket passes for their company for entertaining guests and put butts in seats consistently that are not there now.

I'm voting Yes, regardless. Reasons:

1. I'm not tied to the current stadium and understand it's old and needs replacement. The "bad batch of concrete" thing is, unfortunately, a thing that happens at times.

I also don't think tailgating before a baseball game is really something that has to/needs to be supported, either, and the area the stadium is in is not enticing or easy to get to for out-of-town folks.

And finally, I believe the team when it says it will not be at the K past 2030. Voting "NO" isn't a vote to save the K. It's a temporary stay of execution, nothing more.

2. Moving the stadium into a more central location makes access for downtown employees and companies much more convenient and therefore likely.

3. Adding more events in the Crossroads/Power and Light area is good long-term for that entertainment district.

4. Keeping tax revenues from the teams in Jackson County is something I don't see evaluated or mentioned often, if at all, but there's a factor there as well. Even the 1% earnings tax is roughly $3M in revenue for the city (if you base it on average MLB salary, multiply it by 2 teams and base it on 81 home games).

5. I'm, in general, in favor of moves that move the city forward, and I think this is one of them.

Good to know two PhDs who are experts in economics, one from Kennesaw State and the other from Smith College, have an "ax to grind" against KC sports teams.

Good point. I don't think they're gaining it, but would of course lose it if they moved to Kansas or out of city limits. I could be wrong, but they're inside KCMO limits for that tax now?

The stadium is in KCMO currently, so yes, that's in place. So it would be more of a potential loss if they're outside the KCMO city limits.

So, you're only naive when you agree with a story?

Maybe act like you disagree with the story and then tell me why what you said is bullshit.. :shrug:

The Star cited the source of a definitive, evidence-based and unbiased examination that proves stadium projects like this are a net negative to the economic welfare of a city which pays for them. Not only that, this source and another expert looked specifically at the Sherman and Hunt proposal and came to a conclusion which says their projections are complete hokum.

There's naiveté and then there's choosing to be ignorant.

I'm not sure who's afraid I live in Jackson County and a ton of people have no desire to pay for it.

Suddenly they change the plans.....now Oak street will be open...

Perhaps the worst PR effort ever in the history of politics

This has every sign of failure and desperation by the pro forces and the Mayor is in hiding cause he knows the stain of failure will be on him


Today, the Committee to Keep the Chiefs and Royals in Jackson County released the following statement from Kansas City Royals Chairman and CEO John Sherman about the Crossroads ballpark proposal and the development around Oak Street:

“I want to thank Mayor Quinton Lucas for his leadership and tireless advocacy as we work to make the best possible ballpark district in downtown Kansas City,” said John Sherman, Chairman and CEO of the Kansas City Royals. “We have been listening to members of the Crossroads community and had thoughtful conversations with the Mayor and City Council to improve the ballpark district impact. Through these conversations we have come to realize the importance of keeping Oak Street open. We acknowledge Oak Street is an integral part of the downtown experience, and therefore we agree to change the ballpark district design to keep Oak Street open. We look forward to working with the Mayor and City Council to begin this joint effort.”

So they really dont have a real solid plan at all

So, a media source that's been run through the mud in recent years as a propaganda machine for their own political agendas and editorial pieces, etc... reached out to these guys with zero knowledge of what their research would conclude (in other words, their 3rd party source have never published such findings on any other similar projects, it wasn't discussed beforehand, etc), then the Star was 100% going to publish the findings no matter the conclusion?

I'm sure The Pitch (do they even exist still?) or some other publication really wanting the Royals to be downtown could find 3rd party sources who completely agree with the economic boost theory, or at least agree enough... don't you think?

And I'm not even voting on it, obviously... if the Royals moved to Kansas, I'd give no ****s. If they moved away, it would be sad, but not life altering for myself at all..... and even on top of that, I'd lean towards agreeing the economic boost is overblown by the Royals, if not made up..... I'm just finding it amusing how you'd be bending over backwards to discredit such a piece if you disagreed with it, but this is 100% legit right here.

They never have, all this speaks to is cash grab, then when it inevitably costs a lot more than they projected they'll come back like a crackhead "I need a little bit more money"

Just pretend that they're climate change experts or CDC immunologists. You should have no problem ignoring them then.

They've said any amount over the initial estimate would be paid out of their own pockets. It'd be a publicity nightmare if they went back on that and they know it.

Your obsession with Mayor Lewis is just so weird.

There is absolutely no way this vote doesn't pass.

It's a done deal...because the Chiefs are also involved. Might not pass if it was Royals because nobody cares about the Royals. But Chiefs have Mahomes and Kelce in on marketing for this. It is passing.

Who the **** gives a shit if they slightly modify their plans for Oak Street... isn't that a good thing? LMAO :facepalm:

Start building and block Oak St: OMG why didn't they think about this?!?

Change a plan after looking at it: OMG, what a mess!

...I'd love a job in an industry where projects never change course, even a tiny bit, lmk.

It takes a lot of nerve for an organization as terrible as the Royals to ask for taxpayer dollars to be used to build a home for their shitty team.

Hopefully he mean McGee, not sure whats on Oak

The crossroads is the best area of town, it needs no revitalization, it is thriving with grass roots businesses and local entrepreneurs.

If revitalization is truly a goal then they picked the exact wrong spot to put the new stadium.

When people have already voted on it in early voting and you are announcing things like that, it makes you look like you have no ****ing idea what you are doing.

It is kind of a big deal. This shows me it was rushed with very little interaction with the City by the architects and royals. Abandonment of public right of way is not an easy process. Also even if that abandonment is approved it doesn't go to Sherman unless he is the sole owner of the properties adjacent to each side of the right-of-way centerline.

Economic transparency has been a problem all along. It is believed that the royals are well short after paying off their current debt and paying interest in new construction and will be asking Missouri taxpayers for another 700 million in addition to the tax.

Jackson county is voting on a tax continuation not a stadium plan.. They can put the stadium where they want in the county and change plans at will..

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a downtown stadium, I've been pretty vocal about that, but I'm not thrilled that this is being put to a yes/no vote seven years in advance with so many details missing.

I've wondered about that part since these things always make it seem like a predetermined thing that stuff is going to get built no matter what (outside of every once in a while where someone kept their house in a redeveloped area)..

And I get the whole trust thing with knowing whether they're just winging all of it or have some kind of plan... if it was "oh by the way, we found out we can't build there and we're going to tear down the river market, but thanks for the money!".... yeah, that's a big deal.

The nuances of whether a street will remain open at this stage... :shrug:

We shall see, but I think too many JACO people aren't willing to call Sherman's bluff, at least once at the seven-years-out mark, and demand to more details and have him explain why these other people are wrong.

Sounds like a cute neighborhood.

It's a shithole.

It might be nice to see the Chiefs publish their detailed plans for the TSC once the Royals are gone. Or have they?

This too... Rep!

I was trying to help.
Our downtown is ringed in Artsy districts.
And we have Rhino to compare to Crossroads. :shrug:

But! The great thing is.
You can have more than 1 if you get people downtown.

It's build stuff for the rich fans, renovation.

You missed it. Big time stuff. New parking deck with a party field and more suites and clubs for VIPs

Employment attracts people to a location.

KC in particular but the metro in general continues to lose employers. And the jobs that do remain have meager compensation.

A few blocks north is the far more cookie cutter P&L district with chain restaurants galore if you want to go to YardHouse or McFadden's or some other shitty bar with watered down drinks.... and then the Crossroads has a bunch of local breweries, restaurants, bars.

It's a cool area, I usually make it there every visit to KC... great beer and bourbon selection.

The stadium would be within easy walking distance of both.

The Colosseum had games for over 500 years. We should try to make stadiums like that instead of ones that need to be replaced every 50-60 years.

I can't imagine why people are leaving..

High utilities, high taxes, fastest growing rental prices in the country, high crime, shit roads...it's not cheap to live here anymore and pay isn't matching all those increases.

It probably shouldn't be up for a vote if they're still making changes that drastic, though.

The reason their plans are not very detailed is so they can easily manipulate the use of the money for their benefit.

Well your priorities suck then it seems. Closing off a street that has the largest Downtown employers City Hall Jackson County Courthouse Federal office and Courthouse along with all the support buildings that accompany the Federal City and County Government :shrug: right dammit we got baseball here.

How much money and civic recognition have the Royals and Chiefs brought to the city over the years? I'd like to see those numbers.

You all have no idea how much traffic flows in and out of Oak St and Locust because of the above.

How bout you worry about your own wreck of a City?

Royals -$34,500

Chiefs +$10,000,000,000

Good news, they're keeping it open. ;)

I would go for this.

Party like it's 1979. Also good to see Generative AI can't deal with the concept of a batter's eye.