I don't think Andy is terrible. He's a hall of famer, but he wears this loss tonight and I wanted a thread to talk about his coaching decisions here. Figured I'd get this always entertaining thread back up and running.

His coaching decisions were fine you all would be bitching that we didnt run the ball if Patrick throws a pick on that final drive. Scored 35 on the road should win that game. It comes down to the defense which has been bad in 2 games this year.

You do not take the ball out of our half billion dollar QB's hands on a final drive. There was not a single reason to do that on the 32 yard line in that situation.

And no, if Patrick threw a pick, I absolutely would not have blamed Andy.

Be mad if you want, but Andy made a terrible decision by not trusting the greatest NFL athlete in our generation to do what he does best.

This is the real meltdown thread. LMAO

Yes you would have and they didnt take the ball out of Patrick's hands that whole drive they got into a position where they could run the clock down with the other team having 0 timeouts they could have scored with 0:00 on the clock with their terrible defense who couldnt stop the Ravens. You throw an incomplete pass you stop the clock and leave time for Baltimore to come back.

Spin it however you want it was absolutely the right call.

You're arguing that taking the ball out of Patrick Mahomes hands was the right call?

It absolutely was not. You trust your half billon dollar QB to manage the clock in that situation. If you score, you trust your half billon dollar QB to get the two point conversation and force the Ravens to drive down the field.

I bumped it 10 minutes before the meltdown thread and before the second thread criticizing Andy tonight. Figured it'd be a place to have that discussion but apparently this thread is too much of a dumpster fire to have that discussion. Ah well - I've learned.

Guys I think Andy Reid is a HOF coach but he had an off game tonight. Keep negging me ffor the bump-- I've earned this one.

It was 1 play that's not taking the game out of Mahomes hands. You do realize we were in field goal range right? You do realize Baltimore had no times outside left right? You do realize running out the clock and getting a score would allow Baltimore not to see the all right?

Jesus christ using your logic we should never run the ball.

Mahomes only threw the ball 31 times tonight (nearly identical to Lamar Jackson which is hilarious). It was most certainly not the only time they took the ball out of his hands to gain a couple of yards on a run.

You guys act like it's insane to run the ball in that situation. When your intent is to run the clock and not score too fast. When absolutely every coach in the league is going to run the ball on that series.

You do if you know a TD takes your team out of the -3.5 cover...and that would really piss off the people you dont want to piss off.

Running Clyde, playing for the FG was the play...you still win the game and Vegas makes a lot of money. Everybody took KC with a banged up Ravens roster...it looked like a sure bet.

CEH just happened to fumble...Vegas still won...so Reid did them a solid. This will bode well later in the year/post-season.

This is the game they have to play nowadays...just too much money involved.

CEH ****ed up his job.

There wasn't anything wrong with the call.

Only 31 times LMAO you do realize Baltimore held the ball for 36 minutes of the game. Jesus christ stick to your hilariously bad NBA takes you canadian pillowbiter

And using your logic, the 1998 Bulls would have been safer by trusting Joe Kleine to make a shot at the rim than trusting Michael ****ing Jordan to make a mid-range bucket.

It's baffling you're arguing that keeping the ball out of Pat's hands while losing is ever the correct move in that situation.

Anyway, I'm peacing out from the thread and moving to the other Andy thread. You were right to razz me for bumping this and was hoping to have the discussion that is happening in two other threads tonight (the meltdown thread and the When Will Andy Learn? thread). I sort of saw this thread as a way to critically look at Andy's coaching decisions during the season, I was wrong. My bad.

To play devil's advocate, it's true we could have passed and fumbled after the reception. We've seen Hardman and Robinson fumble before. So the ball is never completely in Mahomes' hands. Even when you pass. When you're already in FG range, the top priority should be hanging onto the ball. Especially if you're a RB. Helaire didn't do that.

Trusting CEH there over Mahomes is like trusting JR Smith to close a game over LeBron James. How is that for a NBA take?

Guys quit with your shitty NBA comparisons your basing your whole argument off a fallacy

You really should use Jordan, Bird, or Kobe in those examples. Not Lebron.

I’d have to ignore the fact that LeBron has better stats than all of those guys to do that, though.

The goal was or should be a chip shot and they stopped to set up a near 50 yarder even without the fumble our win probability plummets. If you are the opposing team you want a handoff or Mahomes disecting you out of 5 wide?Easy answer.

The tell was Clete taking off the 2 pt conversion for the Ravens...illegal man down field on a two yard play? I've never seen that on a goaline play...and probably never will again.

See, this would have put the spread in jeopardy as KC would have likely been trying to win at the end with a TD....thus 4 point margin.

He needed to shave the score down to cover...

I suppose Kobe could work. Clyde's performance very much resembles getting killed in a helicopter crash

Unless there are two incomplete throws, stopping the clock and leaving the Ravens enough time to gouge our defense going the other way. Then ya'll would be bitching to high heaven about Reid and his "clock management!!!!!11111".

No matter what Andy Reid chose to do, if the end result was us losing the game, you'd be blaming him.

Reid isnt a bad coach, but I think that sometimes he just wants to prove that there are also other ways to win football games, not just the Mahomes way.

It reminds me of the Pep Guardiola and Linonel Messi relationship. Almost everything was attributed to Messi, every win and title. Despite Guardiola playing a huge part.

Same thing I see here with Reid and Mahomes.

I am very confident in saying that Reid doesn't win a championship without Mahomes. Just look at how we actually won not just the SB but literally every game in the playoffs that year and compare it to how long Reid has been in the game.

Calling a running play was a perfectly fine call. I would prefer a pass because I trust Mahomes so much, but we should be able to run the ball for a positive play, and bleed some clock in that situation. But the guys have to execute.

FYP

Not me. Any time you have the ball in Mahomes hands to win the game is the right decision. Even if he throws a pick.

It's not just about you, though. There are too many dumb ass fans who built up this CLOCK MANAGEMENT bullshit narrative that they stole from the Eagles. Wallcrawler and others like him loved this because they could make bold statements like, "I may not know as much about football, but at least I know how to manage a clock!" as if they would never look like a fool EVER if an NFL team ever made them their sideline clock guru.

Now they can go to the other narrative, which is that Reid has some kind of soft spot and doesn't like to run up the score on other teams, so he keeps the game close on purpose or some shit. I don't even know what the hell Wallcrawler is talking about in that other thread, but anyway... yeah. It's the opposite of the clock management thing, because one of them involves Reid calling pass when he should have called run, and the other involves calling run when he should have called pass.

It's a bulletproof guaranteed way to heap most of the blame onto Andy Reid for any given Chiefs loss from now until he no longer coaches the team. And it's just ****ing stupid, in my opinion. Apparently winning a Super Bowl in the last two years actually hasn't changed Chiefs fans at all.

Since the 2019 playoffs, I’ve consistently applauded Andy for being aggressive with Patrick. That includes going for it on 4th down, calling downfield pass plays late in the 4th quarter to seal games (last year’s Bucs win and several others come to mind) and also never care if being aggressive doesn’t work out, with Patrick, I think it’s the right move.

That might be true, but you could say that almost to every coach in the NFL. D you think BB would have won without Brady?

I yelled and asked aloud why would you run there. It is a perfectly fine call though I will say the CEH wasn’t having much luck running it up the gut and before the play they have 9 guys at the LOS. I get the sense that Andy called a run no matter what there but who knows?

Anyway, maybe we needed to lose like that to fix issues that would keep us from getting to the ultimate game later. Would have preferred to win because the victory was there for the taking, but let’s hope they learn from this.

Too many people blaming Reid tonight. At some point, your players need to make plays.

Bro... Andy Reid scripts the first handful of drives in a game and EVERY SINGLE GAME in the playoffs the Chiefs were climbing out of a hole. They won the SB purely on the back of Mahomes. Who the **** called the play in the SB that started the comeback when they couldn't get anything rolling on offense? Ya... Mahomes.

I rarely see such horse shit illegal contact flags as BOTH of the ones they threw on Mathieu tonight.

You have a first round RB. You use them to move the ball & run the clock out.

CEH failed.


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both of them were complete bullshit, the one where they had a sack towards the end was just blatantly bad and obvious the refs wanted to help the Ravens.

KC was up 5 on the second one...and Lamar had just been sacked.

If they didn't call that, then and there....the odds of a conversion were pretty slim.

I watched the entire 4th quarter from the angle of "how will they would cover the spread"...there was probably 100 million dollars of easy money riding on it.

How many people took the Ravens and 3.5 points? Nobody...their roster was a MASH unit going against Mahomes. David vs. Goliath narrative...nobody on the Ravens forums thought they has a chance either.

Vegas absolutely killed it tonight...I bet it was their single biggest money maker game of the entire year.

The positive is Reid is in their good graces now....I said after the Chargers (home opener in their new stadium) and the crazy amount of late game flags on KC...that the Chiefs were supposed to lose that one. They had to rekick how many FGs that game? Cheffers was hung out to dry....you know who was the official in the SB...Cheffers. ..and his record setting amount of 1st half flags.

You play ball or they make you pay...Mahomes is just too big of draw to completely ostracize him.

I just can't get over he fumbled in that moment. The one thing you could not do in that moment. Not to mention that was Clyde's first fumble. That's what it takes to beat KC.

That and the Ravens back-up O-line, playing out of position, looked like all-pros.

You watch...they will look like dogshit next week.

Spaggs played ball tonight...and in the end, it wont matter come week 18.

It will all be forgotten...Vegas cashed in on an irrelevant early-season game...and the network had asses glued to their seats until the end. Mission accomplished..

People were complaining about that ref crew before the game and their worries were fully justified smh.

He ain’t no Paul Palmer, that’s for sure.

So, this week it was KC’s turn to be Cleveland and CEH played Chubb, on the fumble anyway. Hunt wouldn’t of fumbled there. Stud vs a stub.

The other team get's paid to play, the D had no answer for number 8.
We won last week because of a fumble shit happens.
We suck at drafting LB's, Dirty dan is slow and needs to go.
Gota start drafting LB's/ CB's/S that are worth a shit early in the draft.

Playing for a 50 yard field goal against a stacked box when they haven't had an answer for your QB all day is a bad decision.

Had they not stacked the line, maybe I'd agree with you. But when they went out there in that formation and the Ravens put 11 guys at/near the LOS, you needed to check out of that.

Maybe Andy gave Mahomes a play to check into and PM didn't do it. In which case that's on Mahomes. But you can't run that play when you see how the Ravens are lining up and selling out to stop it.

Well I don't think anybody fears Andy's defense. LMAO

We are fixing to find out Sunday for sure - Chargers and Raiders are looking VERY DANGEROUS! Not giving up but changes need to happen REAL soon!

YES! PMII even said he should have thrown it to Robinson - I believe, instead of Kelce. This could be a 9 - 8 season. This team is NOT going back to the SB - It ain't happening - IF they make it to the Playoffs, they will be one and done as we have seen in the past. No RB, No defense - it is not going to happen. Raiders WILL win the division and we will all be disappointed - CALLING FACT! WE HAVE NO RB AND WE HAVE NO DEFENSE - straight UP. Yes, WEEK 3 throwing in the towel. Chargers 2 times, Raiders 2 times, Buffalo, Steelers and oh yes, Broncos are 2 - 0. WFT, Dallas, Cardinals, Green Bay, Titans, Steelers, 49ers. I just do not see it. I have already given up on this team - flame away but, it is not happening. See ya next season!

What "changes" are available to make?

LMAO... Are you 12 years old or a bad troll??

Stryker and pete are brothers. And that's good MOJO he just put out there

We were far more up shit creek in the middle of our Super Bowl season than we are now.

Unsure how Mahomes would play when he came back. No running game (before DWill stopped being shitty). Defense still figuring shit out. I think Cam Erving was still filling in for Fisher, too.

Stryker and others like him need to un**** their vaginas

I kind of agree with what you're saying, but I'm not spazing out about it. Just see what happens.

Interesting in that the game that started KC on a roll that season was the loss to the Titans in Tenn. It was similar to the Raven's loss.

:spock:

We are going to beat the Chargers on Sunday and it won't be close.

Faders are not winning this division. ROFL

Please start your own thread about this, so we can be reminded of how smart you are all season long.

ROFL

Idiot.

Cardinals? 49ers?

Wtf?

You're not wrong on most of this. But you do realize we drafted a stud CB last year and look to have a couple of good, high picks at LB last and this year?

I wish the halls, meeting rooms, and phones at 1 Arrowhead way were "Mic'd up" this week. Oh, and the stairwell too... LMAO

3 straight AFC championship games, 2 straight Super Bowls, our first Lombardi in 50 years.

I guess I shouldn’t be but I am absolutely aghast at how quickly this fan base has forgotten where we came from.

Mahomes is in complete control of this offense. He and Andy can share the blame for running the ball. You can’t blame it all on Andy when you know #15 has the reins of the offense.

Kill Yourself. Thank you.

Time to bring it back, fellas! The instant classic from 6 years ago.

I look like the Kool Aid Man to the tune of Rock you like a hurricane.

*ahem*

Its the final quarter
we're down by one
Should I pass
Or should I run

Pringle or Kelce
Could score a TD
No i just think I'll
Play for the threeeeeeeeee

HERE I AM!
AHHH LOOK LIKE THE KOOL AID MAN!
HERE I AM!
SCREWIN UP THE GAME PLAAAN!
OHHH YEAH!!

Its the final quarter
Second and three
Still got the best
Quarterback In the league

Well that too easy
Not gonna throw
Clyde hit in the backfield
He fumbled....OH NOOOOOO

HERE I AM
AHHH LOOK LIKE THE KOOL AID MAN
HERE I AM
SCREWIN UP THE GAME PLAN

We know how big a believer Mahomes is in MEH.

He may not have a louder supporter on the squad. The stories of Patrick's input into the pick and excitement over it are well know.

PM is only human (I think) - he may have let his belief in MEH cloud his judgment. He sees that formation and thinks Clyde could get the yardage because he still sees in Clyde the same player he saw when he was drafted (outside zone scheme concerns be damned).

On the flip-side of that, Thuney does appear to have gacked his block. And it does appear that if Thuney doesn't, the hole is wide open for an easy 1st down and the march continues.

Dammit Clyde - why you gotta fumble that ball away?

👍

The strategy to try to run late in the game made sense. Our D was gassed, we tried to run off some time and slow things down.

We just didn't execute and the midget caughed up the ball ala Jamaal vs Donks. Can't predict that shit.

An equally stupid playcall by Andy in that game too. At least hes ****ing consistent lmmfgdao.

That was the instead of taking a knee to go to OT, lets just pound Jamaal into the teeth of the Denver defense because hurrr durrr derpa derpa bbq sauce better job better job playcall.

Classic.

Is he though? What evidence do we have that Mahomes has enough control to call his own plays or even audible out of called plays? With Peyton Manning, you could tell he was calling the shots. I'm not seeing anything to make me believe that Mahomes is controlling much with the play calls. I don't recall any instances of him yelling out an audible to change a play call. Is there something I'm missing that shows that he has complete control?

Was not a bad decision by Andy.

You throw the ball and it gets tipped or something.

Or worse, a bad snap.

The blame is 100% on CEH. I'm blaming Thuney before I'm blaming Reid on that play.

Running the ball on a 2nd and 3 with almost a minute and 45 seconds and all your time outs isn't a bad play. Idea is to get a first down and force Baltimore to call a time out. Then you can go back to score a touchdown mode or at worst you are in field goal range. Shitty luck on a fumble.

And gum wrappers. Definitely need those for nostalgic purposes.

Seriously? Watch his hands. He’s making subtle adjustments to route tree options on several plays a game. Plus they run a shit ton of RPO where Mahomes has complete control.

We scored 35 points and lost. That says it all for me.

In all fairness, the offense scored only 28 as HB was responsible for 7 of those points.

Run defense was AWFUL. But offense made 2 really costly turnovers. There’s blame to go all around on this one.

But we weren't tied.

I'm fine playing for a FG when a miss means overtime. But I don't understand playing for the FG there when a miss means the game is over.

It was just too passive. The idea behind it AND the execution of the plan.

This team doesn't work nearly as well at 80% speed. We've seen it for a couple of years. When they aren't playing with their hair on fire, they get bored and they don't execute well. They make mistakes they just don't make when they have their backs to the wall or when they're keeping their foot on the gas.

They went into slow-down mode (presumably to appease the idiot "ANDY CAN'T MANAGE A CLOCK!!!" crowd, but sacrificed their edge in the process.

Imagine being this much of a beta bitch.

If Alex Smith is your QB with Junior Hemingway and Anthony Fasano, I could understand this attitude after that performance. But with Mahomes, Hill, and Kelce?

You don’t deserve this team.

And I’ve got good news for you - I guarantee we don’t lose to the Cardinals or the 49ers this year. Because we already beat them. In the preseason. But you should be really afraid of them!

Would they have continued their March with Mahomes throwing? Probably. If there was no fumble and we won absolutely no one would be complaining.

I was pissed when it happened but I’m a fan and in the heat of the moment we all want to figure out the path that will never be that kept us from winning. But it was not a bad call in that situation.

We have to hope that, like the Titans loss in our Super Bowl run that resulted in us getting Suggs and the Titans getting into the playoffs and knocking off the one seed Ravens there is some good that’s going to manifest out of this. Hate to lose but if we’re hoisting the Lombardi trophy come February not a single f*** will be given about this loss which showed even with the worst defensive performance we still should have won.

Let’s turn the page and kick the Chargers’ ass on Sunday.

It's like people have forgotten that Mahomes was injured the season we won it all.

For all intents and purposes, we put ourselves in position to win that game. We were in Buttkicker's range.

I'm guessing securing the ball was beat into the ground this week.