What you're suggesting would fundamentally change the entire league and how business is conducted.

Teams wouldn't sign many, if any, players to long term contracts because of uncertainty with their various revenue streams. And like this offseason, teams would be unwilling to commit to any free agents long term, regardless of whether or not it's an extension or a pure free agent, because of the uncertainty of would the cap would be in two, three or four years from now.

Sure, the Chiefs could sign Mahomes to a large extension but under this scenario, many teams would either be way under the cap or way over, especially if the expected increases, which have occurred over the past 10 years of the current CBA, actually turns out to be a decrease in revenue.

In that scenario, teams would be struggling to fit their players under the cap, which would likely result in higher paid players being shown the door, making those teams less competitive.

The bottom line is that it's just impossible for the NFL and its teams to plan 2 years in advance, especially at this juncture, due to expiring broadcasting rights in 2021.

I think Jones is a unicorn. Said it for quite some time now. I think he has rare talents that if harnessed with hard work throughout his career will end up in the HOF. I compared his body style and the way he plays to Reggie White and still think that’s accurate.

But Clark brings a mentality this DL didn’t have without him...even though they had Houston and Ford on the edges and Jones in the middle. They were soft.

I’d love to see Veach find a way to keep Jones long term and for him to continue to be coached up to continue to improve, but it appears the situation with the cap won’t allow that...or maybe it will and we see extensions for Mahomes and Jones on July 15th.

Sorry man Frank is far more valuable than Chris and that was proven last season.

If Jones is such a Unicorn then why aren't teams lining up to get him away from KC during this contract situation?

Nobody would know if they already were or not.

I would imagine Jones is more valuable to most teams just because finding interior guys who can get pressure like that aren't very common, and most GMs and coaches want that more than anything these days.

'Far more valuable' is a bit of a stretch. Clark brought a much needed attitude change to the D and he is better against the run than Jones but Jones is much more of a force to be reckoned with when it comes to pass rushing. Jones didn't have a ton of sacks this year but he is without a question our main pass rushing threat.

i'd say it's about even. Both great players with different strengths and weaknesses. They complement each other well too.

I think signing Jones to a huge deal isn't worth it for Chiefs since we have Reid/Mahomes and are already paying a ton to Frank Clark. But he deserves to get paid a lot by another team who needs a good pass rushing DT to help get their defense and team to the next level. He's a good player but if I'm Veach I'd let him go.

Yep.

The Colts just gave up #13 overall to the 49ers for DeForest Buckner, a defensive tackle with similar numbers to Chris Jones in the past 4 four seasons, then gave him an extension worth $21 million per season.

If/When Veach decides to trade Jones, he'll definitely get at least a 1st rounder for Jones and maybe more, depending on the slot.

And just like Buckner, fans may not know that a trade is or has been in the works until it's announced.

Why do you care?

The main reason I bailed on this site was most of this board insisting he was a liability and the main problem with our defense.

That position didn't get less stupid. Y'all should be happy to trade this "terrible" player while people think hes good.

Out of all the stupidity that’s been shared on this board over the last decade, this stupidity seems like a rather run of the mill reason to bail.

Veach really does hold all of the cards here. Chris Jones isn’t holding out for too long this year unless he goes full reerun and pulls a LeVeon Bell. He wasn’t a first rd pick. He’s only made just north of $6 million in career earnings. I can’t see him sitting out and throwing away his chance to at least double his net worth in even half a season this year.

Besides this, Veach has interior options in Tanoh, Saunders in year 2 and even Speaks as a reclamation project.

And even still, if Veach trades Jones and still thinks we need some pass rush help, Jadeveon Clowney and Everton Griffin are good pass rushers available that can rush inside on passing downs and would easily be cheaper than the franchise number we are projected to pay Jones.

It sucks for Jones bc he deserves $21 million IMO, but he has no control here. Veach might just have to say “**** it Chris. Get ready for the stretch run.”

But if a team offers a top 20 pick for him? I’d make that deal

Well now there is still 9 days to focus solely on jones.

Anyone else feel like this helps the case for CJ to sign?

I do.

It just depends on how reasonable Jones will be. It sounds like he wants $20.5+ which for a long term deal is a non starter IMO

6 years 108 million? 45 mil guaranteed and plenty of incentives.

Plus, he gets to be in the playoffs every year.

I mean I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this deal got done today.

This. The stars are aligning.

The threats of a hold-out have me a bit concerned though. If this was the angle, why wouldn’t they tell Jones they were headed that way?

There has been nothing but silence from the Chiefs to Jones’ camp. That would be a lot of ground to cover in 9 days.

Spotrac has mahomes salary going up by 2 mil for this year, overthecap doesnt but if it does that leaves us with just 1.5 mil and all our picks still to sign so something else still has to happen to get them all signed. I say a jones deal.

Honestly we overpaid for Clark. Jones is more consistent.

If we get the Clark that we got in the playoffs going forward, then I have absolutely no problem with that deal.

Remember he was a lot more injured than anybody knew for the first half of last season.

Yeah I don't even think we've seen peak Clark yet.



But also we haven't seen peak Jones

:facepalm:

Jones was arguably the MVP of the Superbowl. He knocked down 3 passes while triple teamed.

:hmmm:

How much are 5 sacks in the playoffs (3 Game Ending) and the first SB win in 50 years worth?

Why can’t we pay both? Lock up your stars and have league minimum for rest

I was hard on Frank Clark for the first half of the season. But his performance in the 2nd half of season and especially in the playoffs made him one of my favs. Crow I was happy to eat.

Clark was amazing in the playoffs.

That only works when two things happen:

1. you draft really well
2. you get discounts from free agents

Brett Veach handles number 1, and Pat Mahomes handles number 2.

So yeah, I think that’s the strategy.

This seems like as good a time as any for this (and no, it never gets old):

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vdDzVeQS-MM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Also, based on the bits a pieces I picked up on the radio, which absolutely could be wrong:

1. It’s and extension so his approx base salaries for this year and next don’t change from the $2.8m and $28m they were yesterday;

2. He’s due a $45m roster bonus is 6 years

3. He’s getting $140m guaranteed (this may be wrong as I think it was an injury guarantee but until I hear differently I’m going with it)

That means once the extension kicks in he’ll be counting $14m per year in bonus money and $310m minus $45m in base salary

That comes out to an average cap hit until 2026 of $265m divided by 10 plus $14m in pro-rated bonus or around $40.5m per year and maybe less depending on what the out years look like.

For the next few years we have him (cap-wise) for a bargain.

“Stars and Scraps” is the term Duncan used. They may go that route, but injuries/aging vets have been issues for other teams in comparable situations. But if Veach and Patrick keep doing their thing, we could potentially avoid the same issues other rosters ran into.

Damn did I have that wrong (and it’s even better than I thought):

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...tract-details/

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ok, OTC has the breakdown up. Here are the cap hits <a href="https://t.co/s7SLDJ0RE1">pic.twitter.com/s7SLDJ0RE1</a></p>&mdash; ChiefBearcat (@Chief_Bearcat) <a href="https://twitter.com/Chief_Bearcat/status/1280289937405902855?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Jones seems pretty happy about the Mahomes extension



:)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Peep this🧐... if it don’t apply, let it fly</p>&mdash; Chris Jones (@StoneColdJones) <a href="https://twitter.com/StoneColdJones/status/1280346320528715782?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If Jones has any sense, he would want to stay here and win multiple championships.

I don't speak jive...(Airplane reference)...what does he actually mean by that?

True, but he does play DT. We’ve seen those guys fall apart overnight. He needs to get his money while he can. He isn’t near as marketable as a QB either.

I don’t fault him for wanting the money above all else right now. That’s how most of us are with our jobs.

5 years, $100M, $52M guaranteed

$30M signing bonus

Base/Roster-Workout Bonuses
1: $4M (guaranteed)
2: $6M (guaranteed)
3: $12M (guaranteed)
4: $18M
5: $20M (10M roster)

Throw in some incentives that would not be seen as "likely" so you can get around them (All-Pro? MVP? 15+ sacks?) and sweeten the pot a little bit. Maybe something like each year he gets 15+ sacks he gets $1.5 million (like Pat's MVP/AFC Title incentives).

That gets your cap hit this year down to $10M (saving $6 million). Gets the Chiefs to about $14M in cap room.

Option 1 (Boring): Roll that cap space over to next year to make up for the 2021 salary cap dip

Option 2 (Aggressive):
Add Jadaveon Clowney on a 1-year, $10-12M deal.

Win Super Bowl. Clowney hits FA again at age 28 coming off a SB win and likely a huge year.

Get comp pick when he signs the huge deal he wants.

Profit.

Which do you think Veach is eyeing?

Clowney has offers on the table from Cleveland, LV and Tennessee, he's holding out because he doesn't want to play for shitty teams.

He’ll play for a shitty team if they overpay for him.

Apparently Cleveland offered him way more than anyone else yet he doesn't want to play there.

The Raiders paying Clowney after drafting Ferrell and Crosby then signing Nasib would be hilarious.

Again it just seems like this was a curveball from Veach. The whole “the Chiefs and Chris Jones aren’t talking” from the media is pretty stupid. No shit they aren’t talking, bc Veach was working on the Mahomes contract.

The “Chiefs never viewed Jones as a $20 million asset” seems odd to me. Not sure why that was reported.

Actions definitely speak louder than words here and Mahomes electing to free money up for the Chiefs the next 4 years says everything about Veach’s plan.

Yeah, he's looking for the big deal... or MAYBE the short deal that improves his market in 2021.

With KC, Clowney would be able to:

1) Play DE, which maximizes his ability
2) Play on an already stacked DL, with two other pass-rushing terrors to draw attention away from him (seriously, he would face single blockers a LOT)
3) Play for a DC who is creative and will move him around to create easier pass rush opportunities where needed
4) Play for a team that is going to put up a lot of points on offense, forcing opponents to throw the ball a lot, creating pass rush opportunities

I don't know that the huge, multi-year deal Clowney wants is out there for him. If it was, I think it would have materialized by now and he would have taken it.

That’s the smart thing to do. You have to have a strong stable of pass rushers to slow down great QB’s. That’s always been true from Brady to Manning to Mahomes.

That’s your best shot.

Most likely the aggressive option. Assuming Clowney will take that deal.

Yep. Sure does!

If not Clowney, Everson Griffen or Logan Ryan also are out there.

Griffen would be an under-radar ADs that might work even better than Clowney.

Sorry but that’s too much money and resources invested into one position when the rest of their defense is ****ing trash outside of Littleton.

Ferrell was a top 5 pick and Crosby looks like a good starter. Paying Clowney makes no sense at this point.

For that they should’ve paid Byron Jones.

This.

Mahomes is so good under pressure that he will destroy that shit secondary time and time again.

We’ve been on the other side of this too many times. We know what it’s like to have a great pass rush and weak secondary. The best QBs will find your weaknesses and exploit over and over.

His contract is kind of ridiculous until you realize his impact in changing attitude, culture, and leadership.

Eh wouldn’t go that far. Hurst and Collins are pretty decent interior rushers. Not great but pretty solid with 7 sacks the last 2 years for each.

Kwitakowski is statistically a pretty good coverage backer and Mullen was a guy I liked in the draft a couple years ago. Lot of people here liked Amik Robertson too (me included).

Cup isn’t completely bare there but their draft picks have not been great the last 2 years. They got lucky that Crosby has been good.

Passing on Josh Allen for Clelin Ferrell was stupid enough, but passing on Jerry Jeudy for Henry Ruggs? LMAO

The chefs miss is Damon Annette. They could have drafted Gladney, McKinney or Igbinoghene and been better off.

Holy shit

It’s nowhere close enough to stop or even slow us down. None of those guys are game changers. Adding Clowney is too much investment (money AND draft picks) at one position when the rest of their D needs game changers at every level.

They absolutely would’ve been better off using that money on Byron Jones.

To suggest otherwise is foolish.

Clooney is good against the run but just okay pass rushing. He wouldn't be a good fit here

Sure he would.

He's a better pass rusher than any other DE not named Frank Clark on this roster. He's not a world-wrecking sack machine like some thought he could be coming out of South Carolina, but he's a good all-around DE who would also be schemed into pressure situations a bunch by this DC and not draw primary focus from offenses.

He's only been used as a 43 E, his best positional fit, or one season (2019) and had no other credible pass rush threats around him.

The **** are you talking about? What do you think Okafor and Suggs we’re doing on the other side of the line? Setting the edge, stopping the run and providing just enough pass rush to help free up Jones and Clark.

I'm a Clowney fan first off, but if you put him next to Chris Jones and opposite Frank Clark, well....yeah.

That would be a fun DL. You could kick him inside with Jones some and just wreck some things.

I tell you all the time and over 15+ years I value your insight into players. Your top notch on this site. Without question, one of the best. But, Clowney? Your 4 points above I cant disagree with but if we do that deal, how do we fit Jones in there?

It makes sense. Its not how you fit Jones in there after the fact. The first shoe to drop is getting Jones off the tag, and giving him a longer term deal with a lower 2020 cap hit (vs. his $16M Franchise tag).

If Jones costs only $10M against the cap, you use that found money to swing a deal for Clowney. His 2019 salary was $15M, certainly the ceiling he's looking at now. Maybe you get him to come down to join the Chiefs and make a stat stuffed championship season. The three of them would be a nightmare.

Jones signing long term = more cap space = enough cap space to sign Clowney to a 1 year deal.

Lol. Yeah that's going to happen

I don't get the Clowney infatuation at all.

Clowney sucks. There is enough depth on DL when you factor in Jones.

Find a young stud at SS or another linebacker instead.

It's not an infatuation. Just thinking about what they would do with the cap space that a Jones extension would free.

Maybe they just pick some up and roll it over.

Maybe they try to add a quality free agent. It's not just Clowney. He's the easiest/biggest name. But Everson Griffen is definitely in the $10 million/year price range and would be a nice addition on a short deal (rumors are he wants 2 years, though).

Logan Ryan would also provide some insurance at CB for Breeland's looming potential suspension.

Personally, I think Veach will be aggressive with that cap space. That seems to be his way.

any news on whats up with Suggs?

If people want to know the impact Clowney could bring to our defense, they should look no further than the instant improvement Suggs brought to our line. As many have said, Clowney won’t bring us a 15 sack season, but he wouldn’t have to do that to make an instant impact on the defense.

The wild thing is that Clowney would be an improvement over Suggs at this point in their careers.

Suggs is a professional

Clowney is a guy who is mostly injured and has fed off a highlight tackle from college

And his price tag is pretty damn high. Unless it's come down. And then that's not the best sign.

Just seems like there has to be better value out there.

KC pretty much offered this to Jones last year and he turned it down. Consistent rumors say he wants the Frank Clark deal and won't take anything less.

I get it, but that is gonna be hard to do. Other contracts coming up in a couple of years that will need to be done too.

Clark’s deal was 5/102 with less $$ guaranteed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

5 years/$104/$62.3 guaranteed

(Not as drastic a difference as I thought, but more guaranteed)

Weird. First thing I checked showed $42.3 guaranteed, but maybe that’s current state.

Anyway, you could increase the guarantee a bit to make it work better if needed. Still is pretty close to what it would take, IMO.

If Clowney is the third best guy on your DL, you're doing something right.

Clowney missed three games last year. It was the most he's missed since 2015 (a year where he also missed 3 games).

If the Chiefs can land a one year "prove it" deal with Clowney, that would be a win for everyone.

Was gonna ask the same thing. Anyone decipher this?

Heh. Either:

1 - nobody understands it but also don't want to admit that
2 - I'm friggin old and these young whipper-snappers are ignoring me (or us...no idea how old you are...)

2.

I know what it means because it's a phrase that's been around for decades. There are plenty of memes as well.

Clowney sucks and he isn't going to sign a one-year deal here he wants money and a lot of it...

He had 3-sacks last year. Let some trash team like Raiders overpay for him.

Thank God you are not the GM of the Chiefs