Poe Dameron's mother had Force Powers: Poe has none.

I don't think it's ever been made Canon that the only way to have Force Powers is to inherit them through a parent.

On the contrary, Finn's Force Sensitivity seems to stem from a belief in The Force, much like Luke in A New Hope.

Personally, I liked RJ's "Democratization" of The Force.

Vader interrogated Princess Leia on the Death Star and had no idea that she was his daughter.

Vader was a few meters from Luke in A New Hope and had no idea that he was his son and was actively trying to kill him as he was flying over the Death Star.

The Jedi Council routinely met with Palpatine in his chambers and had no idea he was a Sith Lord, including Yoda.

I don't think that Force powers have been clearly defined as of yet.

Hell, add to that, we're still finding out what it means to be a Mandalorian!

Talzin was a Nightsister. Not Sith, even though she used dark force powers. She actually fought against the Sith. That's completely different.

She worked in concert with Sidious and as a Nightsister, knew of the Sith ways. She turned on Sidious when he took her son, Maul. But that's a different story.

Palpatine knew of his son and didn't murder him until he refused to turn over his grandaughter. So the idea that he would just "kill" his family members for no reason has no basis at this point in time.

The fact of the matter is that there is very little information available about the Sith and to just say "I don't find it believable" is an opinion, not a fact.

I personally don't find it "believable" that a man that rules a galaxy doesn't have any concubines. He IS a man, at least given his description in the Star War data bank and as far as we know, there's no rule preventing Sith from bearing children or having attachments or sex.

I've provided a few examples of powerful Force users that have no idea that their children are present, right in front of them. Snoke/Sidious had no idea who "The Girl" was in TFA, nor did he realize that Kylo Ren and Rey Palpatine were a "Force Dyad" until he had them in his grip.

To me, it's fairly evident that neither the Sith nor the Jedi or Omniscient.

I'm just saying that parenting isn't a common trait among Sith. They're typically very selfish and cruel, obsessing over power and distrustful of everyone. Not a lot of family tales involving Sith.

You're better than this.

I'm just calling it as I see it.

I really couldn't care less about Finn. I don't even know what purpose his character serves and if he was completely wiped from this sequel trilogy, would it even matter? Would anything change?

From my perspective, the answer is no.

I totally get that but once it was confirmed that he was alive, Darth Vader scoured the galaxy for his son.

Not yet, anyway. :D

All the mental gymnastics are kind of pointless. The only real reason for it is that JJ decided that was how he was going to retcon her origin.

I think it's kind of silly and any number of alternatives would have been better for me. I still like the idea of Satine keeping a child secret from Obi-wan, creating potential for a Kenobi grandchild. Or Ezra and Sabine. Or pretty much any two characters not named Palpatine.

Abrams went for too many moments that were cool from the perspective of a 40+ year old who'd lived their entire lives fantasizing about the SW universe, moments that made no sense in the context of a new movie trilogy with new characters. Too much was tied to the original trilogy, and not much really survives even a cursory examination of the plot, themes, events or motivations of the final trilogy or the characters within.

That's the main issue I have with episode 9 (and 8 and 7...).

But maybe it wasn't ever possible to really do it right.

If clay didn’t see sex in the movie, it didn’t happen.

Soooo...are you saying we might be getting a series about the Sith? That would be awesome.

No, it was a joke since there are two series set to debut in 2021, with more in development.

It's called damage control.

Lucas always said the main character in all the stories was Darth Vader. He was totally absent in these last 3 tho and I’d make the argument Palpatine is now the stories main character

I just want KK out of the picture entirely so we can get movies about the Old Republic.

Saw it tonight. I liked it. It was fun. Abrams certainly knows how to keep a movie propelling forward.

I just didn’t understand a lot of it. How did Palpatine rise from the dead? He was just hanging out building a massive hidden fleet for years?

And where did he recruit a massive army of people to be loyal to him? why would you be loyal to this evil undead asshole again??

I just don’t like the... well palpatine was behind everything! “Curtain drop”. Felt like a corny sat cartoon episode.

Jj made an interesting film and let’s not deny the visuals weren’t stunning

Best thing about this movie to me was the entire Finn, Poe and Rey relationship. Glad they put that front and center. They absolutely nailed the casting with these guys. I like them and enjoy spending time with them. Every scene they were all together was a lot of fun.

I even like Adam Drivers Kylo a lot too. Although, I’m not really sure why he decided to turn at that moment? I would guess Leia and Han had tried many times to get him to turn back?

Just got back from it. It was ok... definitely felt like rehashed stuff. Also doesn't help that I don't care too much about the characters minus the og's. I'm over palp... definitely wish they didn't cater to fans and had a plan. Solid action but meh story.

Wow.

No. Just, no.

There was more chemistry with three kids who knew jack and shit about acting in the original Harry Potter.

Outside of Anakin, we've never heard tale of ANY Sith OR Jedi having sex.

It was a stupid, hamfisted, lazy plot device.

George Lucas sold Lucasfilm because he was tired of being told that he was "wrong" all the time about his movies and stories.

No A-List Director wanted anything to do with the Star Wars prequels or the Star Wars sequels.

There is no "right way" to do a Star Wars film, which is why the slate has been wiped clean and Lucasfilm is focusing on TV series, which cost far less than if they spend $500 million on shooting and marketing a film that the majority of the public doesn't like or doesn't respond to positively.

It's a No-Win situation.

Palpatine died on the Death Star and was resurrected by Sith followers on the hidden planet of Exogol, which was located in the Unknown Regions.

The Sith followers built the fleet, which was also hidden on Exogol.

Personally, I like the idea of his resurrection via Sith Black Magic and the Dark Side, which "Is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural", as opposed to him just transferring his spirit into multiple clones over the years.

Because he realized that it was the resurrected Palpatine, not Snoke or his grandfather, Darth Vader, that made him turn to the Dark Side. It wasn't Vader speaking to him, it was Palpatine the entire time.

He also felt guilt about killing his father, Han Solo, which is what that scene represented.

I would be very, very surprised if Lucasfilm, regardless of who's running the the company, creates a movie set in the Old Republic.

FWIW, Benioff & Weiss were initially asked to run a TV series but they were interested in doing a trilogy of films that were set 30,000 years ago or more, centered around the first awareness of The Force and its original users.

The last thing Lucasfilm needs at this point in time is another huge box office disappointment and there is absolutely no doubt that a film set in the Old Republic would receive a massive backlash if it changed anything from the KOTOR games.

That's not an interesting project to any B-Listers, let alone, A-Listers.

Disney+ seems like a good platform for a course correction (I typed 'force correction' lol).

I'm just not sure what they can do now, film wise. Hell, what if they'd waited 5 years and done Solo as a limited series. Maybe it's a monumental success for Disney+ instead of a borderline flop in theaters. Like they're doing with Obi-wan.

But now that they've exhausted the nostalgia boost from the original trilogy in the sequels, they're going to have to find a new well to draw from. But I'm not sure what they can do that would have a wide appeal. Everything we've talked about here, like the Old Republic era, is niche, not broad appeal. The trick is how to get the other 85% of the public who doesn't give a shit about video games or expanded universe/legends novels into theaters.

Just wish they would have explained that a little better. I liked the film overall.

Have you heard anything about this? The speculation out there is that they changed the ending. Kylo was originally going to live and it was him who was the ‘Rise is Skywalker’. Not Rey. If that’s true, glad they changed it. I like this ending Better.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The shot of Daisy “standing in front of the twin suns” is very clearly taken from the footage of her standing on Passana, waiting for the Tie Fighter. <a href="https://t.co/NWtBQUz3Jc">pic.twitter.com/NWtBQUz3Jc</a></p>&mdash; benjamin chewbacca organa skywalker solo (@im_organa) <a href="https://twitter.com/im_organa/status/1211461346040172545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 30, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Boyega out there riling the SJWs up!!

ROFL ROFL

sez Finn was patient with his crush on Rey, and now that Kylo's dead he gets to lay some pipe.

Heads assploded errywhurr. . . .

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/0iV0Y6t"><a href="//imgur.com/a/0iV0Y6t">&quot;Someone must have told them about my little maneuver at the Battle of Taanab&quot;</a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Top response

ROFL

TFA Finn and Rey were more interesting....after that they went to shit. No emotions, no real good interaction at all. Just terrible characters that I didn't really care about.

It had occurred to me after seeing The Last Jedi that Rose may have only existed to not-gay Finn, but after seeing Finn and Poe both get throwaway love interests in RoS I think I actually believe it.

TLJ is a much tighter movie if you just have Poe go with Finn, because not only can you eliminate a superfluous character in Rose, you can eliminate all the Admiral Holdo shit that only exists to give Poe something to do. Basically I think Disney didn't like the tumblrinas shipping Finn and Poe, so they tried to create a new female love interest that would appeal directly to that demographic.

I kid you not, this was Rian’s first draft of TLJ’s script..

TV is the best option. HBO/Netflix/Dismey+ have the money. The eyeballs now. They usually leave the creators alone to do their thing. Properly fund the shows. It doesn't have the stigma of inferiority anymore. All of the A-listers have done TV now.

I think filmmakers like Tarantino after his last movie will excel at a one time 6-8 episode arc format. His first cuts are always 3.5+ hours anyway. He can flesh out the story and characters in a way that you cant in a 2 hour movie.

Heh. Pretty obvious how they wittled Roses part down in RoS to about 3 or 4 lines.

She went through all that internet bullying for nothing. Even that scene Finn looks like he's not wanting it

I actually saw an article yesterday, stating "millions of star wars fans left wondering what happened to Rose...."


Ummmm, I've literally never met anyone who gave a damn about that character.....nor wanted/desired MORE screen time for her.

heh, yea.....How did Kylo get off that Death Star wreckage planet??

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Totally read that in Samuel L's voice, lol

Finally saw this last night. I just... I don’t know. During the film I found myself comparing it to whichever of the M:I sequels had the characters wearing four different fake faces at one time (I believe it was II). It just kept feeling more and more absurd as it went on. As an independent sci-fi film this would have been very good to great. But it isn’t independent, it is the continuation of an established story. And I realize that at least some of what was done through our the trilogy can be explained in the EU but, not everyone who watches the films immerses themselves in these stories stretched across all mediums. The films are the focal point of the entire Star Wars universe, if people walk out of the theater scratching their heads over more than one or two minor things then you failed.

And that is with out mentioning the brining back of Palpatine (and ruining Vader’s redemption) and Rey being his granddaughter after already teasing she was a Skywalker. Poe and Finn just continue to be unlikeable (to me anyway). Poe is supposed to be a Han Solo type but comes across as corny instead of cool. A Calvary charge on a star destroyer just looked silly. Force ghosts can interact in the physical world by summoning lightning (TLJ) and raising an X-wing from the sea but can’t/don’t show up to help defeat powerful enemies. And speaking of the force, users can grab ahold of ships in flight and damn near fly their own selves. And probably some other issues I’m forgetting at the moment.

It WAS an entertaining and visually good looking movie. And as I said, it could, with a bit of retooling to come across as a stand alone story instead of a continuation of one, be a decent to good unique sci-fi flick. But as a Star Wars movie, while having its moments, it ignores too many story lines and plots not just from within this trilogy, but through the entirety of the saga.

This was my line of thinking before seeing the movie.

But after seeing the movie, I no longer believe that Anakin's story arc was changed because, as The Emperor himself admitted, he died before, a clear reference to his death at the hands of Anakin on the second Death Star. So in that regard, Anakin's tale is unchanged, from my perspective.

While I would have preferred a different ending that didn't involve resurrecting The Emperor, I thought it was pretty cool that we finally saw the followers of The Sith, former Sith Lords as statues (which also appeared in EU novels) and the latest Sith Homeworld of Exogol, not to mention that it was The Emperor himself that was deceiving Ben Solo from birth.

The movie, for me anyway, was far more enjoyable the second time and I'm hoping to see it at least once more before it leaves the theaters as it'll probably be early April before it's released digitally.

And you know, all the Star Destroyer had to do was ****ing pitch to one side and they were ****ed ROFL

Just a dumb movie. Big, stupid, loud and dumb. Didn't care about the massive plot holes, just give us your money. Star Wars: Rise of Transformers

I’ve gone back and forth on Vader’s redemption since learning they were bringing Palpatine back from the dead. He did turn back to the light and he did kill the emperor. But in doing so did he really fulfill the prophecy and bring balance back to the force if the Emperor, or anyone else, can be brought back from the dead? That does not nullify Vader’s turn but, it nullifies it’s significance in terms of the prophecy. Hell, it nullifies the prophecy itself.

I agree that catching a glimpse of the Sith order was cool. And it was something that could be pulled from the EU with out any confusion because while it was new to the film universe the Sith themselves were not, making it a non-left field world to explore. The fact that the details of that world were drawn upon from the EU is inconsequential on this matter. BUT, they could have done that with Snoke. And while that is a RJ problem Abrams couldn’t help, it ultimately falls on Disney for allowing these films to be made with out an outline for all three movies to follow. And that is by far the biggest fail through out these films. How you tell a story with out a cohesive storyline is beyond me.

You shouldn't try to explain JJ's hamfisted writing and plot.

There's no rhyme or reason to it.

It just is, cus it was the easiest thing to do.

He's a dumb**** with zero creative energy beyond making things look cool.

:D Heh, yeah, that would have about done it. Although I consider that to just be typical movie making convenience. That in and of itself is just something one expects in most movies. But the scene itself just looked silly.

Yep. If you told me this was a Michael Bay film I’d never think of questioning you on it.

Physics in a Star Wars movie? Are you kidding me?

Let's start with the fact that a lightsaber could never, ever exist in our universe because light doesn't have an endpoint, nullifying the possibility of such a weapon or device.

As for the movie, it was clearly explained that the planet Exegol had a weird atmosphere consisting of many anomalies, including Gravity Wells, which could easily explain why the characters didn't fall off the Star Destroyer.

The ships also had limited manueverability due to the unstable atmosphere so had the ship turned to its side in an effort to dump the Rebels, it too could have crash landed.

So was Lando hitting on the young girl there at the end? His line delivery sure felt like it.

I don’t know but, it was odd to say the least.

No, it didn't.

Dude, I can never tell if you're trolling or if you have the IQ of a squirrel because some of things you post are just beyond dumb.

The scene was cut but Jannah is Lando's daughter.

I'm not singling out you but it infuriates me to no end that some people need everything spelled out for them onscreen.

That's why Lucas added the scene in the Special Edition of The Empire Strikes Back in which Vader is shown on Bespin saying "Prepare my Star Destroyer for my arrival" because people complained "but how did Vader get back to his ship"?

It's why Lucas included the scenes in which Leia is seen as a baby on Alderaan and Obi Wan is seen dropping off Luke to Owen and Beru, two scenes that were completely unnecessary because we already knew their stories! But a certain segment of people need to see it on screen for it to have happened.

It drives me crazy that people can't use their brains...

You love JJ LMAO

I considered the possibility she might be his daughter when he asked the question. But his delivery of, “Let’s go find out.” just seemed off to me (and plenty of others from what I’m reading). That’s why I said I don’t know. And I consider this to be a bit more ambiguous than the examples you gave. JMO.

Most likely it wasn’t meant that way, but it did make me feel uncomfortable for a second or two.

No, I just see reasonable explanations where they exist.

The entire Star Wars Galaxy is Fantasy/Sci-Fi.

Even semi-reasonable explanations make sense if you employ a Suspension of Disbelief, which is required when watching Star Wars.

There was much, much more dumber stuff in the old EU than in the sequel trilogy.

Like mountains of nonsense.

Of course, of course.

Doesn't excuse JJ's hamfisted ****ery.

Like I said...even the EU did a better job of resurrecting Palpatine.

JJ is just lazy.

Sure, I understand that it's more ambiguous but it's also, at least in my mind, a "Connect The Dots".

Lando's family was captured and taken by the First Order. Lando connects with a woman that is roughly the same age as his child would be at this point in time, who was also captured by the First Order after birth, became a First Order Trooper, mutinied and escaped, only to be reunited with her father.

From my understanding, the scene in which Lando realized that she was his daughter was edited out because it was "too on the nose".

I won't be surprised if the novelization goes into further detail.

Did I just completely miss this little nugget last night with everything else going on in the film or is this something found in the EU?

Eh, I didn't pickup anything other that's my daugher. They look a lot alike. Postures the same. Sitting the same direction. If it were anything else, they would have blocked it way differently.

Lando mentioned it in the movie.

Honestly, there's SO much happening in the film that it's easy to miss little nuggets such as this one, which is why I liked the movie SO much better during the second viewing.

Yeah, I hear you. This movie did a lot of beating the audience over the head with things. I get why they did it. There was less in TLJ and it got blasted by everybody. So back to the beating you over the head.

Hey! I forget to check in with you, so my apologies. It was a crazy, crazy (but great!) Christmas time, with more than 20 McCloud's together for the first time, maybe ever.

Did you enjoy the film?

Yeah, that's why in my initial post, the night before it opened wide, I mentioned that there was no way they could keep up the pace for the second half of the film.

Personally, I really enjoyed (no, LOVED) the fast pacing of the first half of the film. My daughter thought it was too much and was happy that it slowed down a bit in the second half but the breakneck speed didn't bother me a bit.

But yeah, there was a ton of information thrown at the audience in this film which is why I recommend at least two viewings (and I'm sure I'll watch it countless times once it's released digitally).

Yeah, there is a lot going on and doing so pretty quickly. Had I caught that bit about his family I still would have thought the delivery of the line awkward but, I certainly wouldn’t have questioned my initial thought about a family tie.

I’m definitely going to have to watch it again.

No biggie. My buddy was pretty adamant that we see it, so I went.

I had a good time. There was a few times where I thought, "cut the shit." But a lot of it was done well.

It had problems, many of which were necessitated by the hard left they decided to take after TLJ. I would have much rather have seen the realization of Johnson's story, especially after what Pants posted about his original script.

All in all it was enjoyable, but fell short of what the story could have been IMO.

Just to clarify, he didn't mention it when meeting Jannah; he mentioned it earlier in the film and IIRC (which I'm probably not), it was just after meeting Poe & Finn.

So basically, it was a setup that paid off later.

Yeah, that's probably a better way to look at it. In the theater, I thought to myself, "My GOD this is made for ADHD kids." After it slowed down I didn't think about it too much, which I probably should have. Rather than it being that they were moving shit along fast as hell so nobody will stop and think about how dumb some of it was, rather than it's speeding towards the point in which we really need to pay attention to.

I felt that way after the initial viewing. As a matter of fact, when my brother bought 16 tickets for us to see it on the amazing X Screen at B&B in Olathe, I wasn't really even interested in going. But my youngest couldn't make it to the Thursday premiere because she wasn't feeling well and wanted me to go the night before Christmas Eve, so I went.

I'm glad that I did because I just sat back and enjoyed the film, far more than I did the during the initial viewing. I think the biggest thing for me the first time is that it was SO different than what I expected story-wise that my mind was playing catch-up the entire time.

Since I knew what was going to happen during the second viewing, I turned off my brain and just enjoyed it for what it was and I have to say, I really, really liked it much better than the previous two Episodes.

I knew it wasn’t right there at the end. I’m guessing it was when they were all in that “tank”. But I’m just not recalling it. I was probably distracted by the annoyance of the Poe and Finn characters (maybe it was the writing maybe it was the actors, or even both but, whatever it was I’ve never cared for them).

I didn't like Finn in this movie, at all.

I don't know if it was because of JJ's direction or if Boyega felt that since his character was Force-Sensitive, he needed to be more "serious", but his "charm" in TFA, the only thing that even made his character even remotely worthwhile, IMO, was gone.

He seemed stiff and wooden. Unfortunately, Oscar Isaac came off similarly, IMO, outside the scenes with Zorri Bliss, who was another under-utilized character (but not as badly under-utilized as Maz Kanata).

Yeah, could be. I'm sure I'll watch it again when it hits digital. It's not the total tire fire that some are suggesting, but neither was TLJ, in fact, I liked TLJ better, but I'm obviously one of the few.

The only time I felt anything in the movie was when chewie cried for Leia. Just not will written at all.

Heard some stuff about Disney ruining the film in final cut. JJ wanted it to be 3 hours and they smashed it to hell in the edit.

I wonder if we'll ever get a "JJ cut." Might be interesting.

The first half of the movie felt like it was lightspeed skipping, so if you take what Dane has said about how they were doing reshoots all the way up to 10 days or so before release, I can totally buy that story. I'll definitely check out the director's cut when it's available.

The opening was seriously edited into a disjointed mess.

I can’t help but think they’ll go back and release directors cuts. While they’re at it they could replace the broom kid at the end of TLJ with some resistance types at a com station intercepting a message on an old Imperial channel or something so the Emperor’s appearance doesn’t come completely out of left field.

I haven’t heard this from anyone I know but since everyone’s still on holiday break, I haven’t reached out to confirm one way or another. That said, it feels like fake news to me.

Why would Iger and/or Horn demand that RoS be edited to 2 hours when Avengers: Endgame was 3 hours long and only became the highest grossing film of all time?