I cut Kim some slack, because as it stands at present I still believe she believes in him. But she is hampered by not being in authority. She isn't lying to Jimmy to hide her personal shortchanging of him. She's lying to shelter a friend from an unreasonable relative of his in a position of power.

After the brother he admired backstabbed him and destroyed any self-worth he had left, sure.

so we should be blasting Kim for caring enough about Jimmy that she didn't want to see him hurt twice as bad by finding out the truth? you saying if YOU were Kim you'd have gone ahead and delivered that nut shot? I'll bet you wouldn't have told him......

yeah Jimmy is no saint....but he did take care of looney tunes for years. hell he even made sure Chuck was gonna be taken care of AFTER he knew what he had done to him! if he was a bad guy he wouldn't have done that....and I guarantee you there's lots of folks who wouldn't have done that for Chuck in the same situation. he was good to the old folks including doing work for free for the one lady who couldn't pay. (maybe he took a 20?) seems to me that you are projecting future bad Saul onto current good/medium Jimmy. :shrug:

Jimmy idolizes his brother. correction....idolized. had he been accepted into the HHM family he'd have been happier than a pig in slop. but Chuck erased every possibility of that happening. in my opinion more so because of jealousy than because of righteousness. he's just using righteousness to try and cover up what he is.....a ****ing backstabbing jealous prick. Chuck the **** forecast it....and then took very deliberate actions that iteered him in that direction.

a great show prompts great response. love this thread and the comments. this show is so much bigger and better than I ever imagined. YAY!

**** you Chuck! LMAO

I don't fault Kim at all - the difference is that I'm also not faulting Chuck. I believe that I'm at least being consistent.

Chuck correctly believed that Jimmy wasn't a good fit for the firm and he tried to spare Jimmy's feelings in using Howard as the hatchet man there. His motives were exactly the same as Kim's - to spare him a truth that he probably didn't need, a truth that would only gut him.

And no, Chuck didn't steer him in that direction - Jimmy would have ended up heading that direction either way.

Good shows don't need a bad guy. They don't need a good guy. They operate in shades of gray and trade in moral ambiguity. Telling Chuck to **** himself and blaming him for the guy that Jimmy becomes does a huge disservice to the quality of the show itself, IMO.

yeah....except....and this is what I think just kicks so damn much ASS....the look in his eyes at the end....the way he spoke to Mike....I feel like he DOES have self-worth. like....he's gonna go out and and stomp some ass....like it made him better....

better....stronger....faster. MWAAAHAHAHAHA!

A pass, no. The choice was his alone regardless of Chuck's impact on it and he'll eventually pay for it. But I'd say Jimmy is a lot more of a morally ambiguous character than you are trying to portray him as.

OK. nice nice, I can smell what you're steppin' in.
but let me ask you this...
you don't REALLY believe Chucks motivation is all about the firm?

Without being beholden to Chuck or anybody else now, we may get an even better understanding of Jimmy's true character next season. Regardless of how much he cares about others or how well-intentioned he is (exemplified countless times this season), there's a very obvious dark side there and we'll likely get a chance to see it in full bloom.

Indirectly? Yes.

Someone stated it earlier, I think it was Baby Lee, when he suggested that Chuck worships at the alter of 'law'. He doesn't view being a lawyer as a profession - he views it as a calling. Honestly, I believe it's the kind of thing that he sees as on par with the priesthood - a sacred trust between attorney and client. A trust he doesn't believe Jimmy is capable of upholding.

I don't believe he's Cain looking to kill Abel here. If he were, he'd have stomped on Jimmy directly and abruptly some time ago. Instead I think he's a guy that actually does care about his brother but in the end, cares about his law firm and a profession he deems almost holy more. He tried to walk the line and balance competing interests and ultimately he failed.

I truly believe that Chuck thought he was doing the right thing by his firm, his partners, his clients and his brother all at once. When the wheels wobbled, he couldn't keep them from flying off.

That's fair.

But if I'm choosing one of the two to be my friend, business partner or brother, I'd be a hell of a lot more comfortable with Chuck (well, presuming that he's not crazy).

While all those things may be true, there's also very obviously selfish motivations in Chuck as well (as you admitted last week, I believe). I'd say his own pride/ego certainly affected his own decision to cut Jimmy off too.

So why didn't Jimmy call Chuck out on his bullshit "disease"?

As a friend, I actually might take Jimmy. His loyalty was evident more than once this season (remember how his saving of Kim cost him his own happiness?). Anything else...probably not.

Probably because he still cares about the guy.

Agreed. There's also, imo, the sibling dynamic of his brother just isn't good enough to do what Chuck does, in his opinion. And what that really equates to is that Chuck thinks he's better than Jimmy (maybe correctly)... and that's never a good starting point for sibling relationships.

It's doubly galling in that Jimmy has been taking care of Chuck this whole time and struggling to make it as a lawyer, and Chuck blithely sits back and eats up Jimmy's devotion. Nevermind that the whole reason that Jimmy's struggling so much is in large part due to Chuck's refusal to help him in his legal career. I think that's what galls me so much about Chuck, that Jimmy's certainly good enough to take care of his insane ass and do all sorts of menial bullshit for him that has absolutely zero financial rewards, but god forbid he practice law.

Oh, and he has Jimmy going out and "negotiating" with the firm on his behalf from a legal standpoint, but it's completely under false pretenses the whole time.

It reeks of elitist classism.