Again, no one is saying that won't happen. Defenders who end up behind the runner could stop them more easily using a horse collar tackle, so banning those creates situations where the runner gets more yards.

This is a different type of tackle, but the result will be the same. Once or twice a game, a runner might get more yards than they would have before. It's OK. Games will still be fun.

Another subjective call for refs to make. What could go wrong?

Look, I've said a hundred times that I hate the drop tackle. I'm not advocating for keeping drop tackles. I'm asking, in reference to that clip above, just what are those defenders supposed to do? I get flagging the first one; it's basically exactly the same as the ones in the rugby video. That shit needs to go.

But the two I pointed out, and several others in the video, are just tackles, imo. So tell me, just what are they supposed to do in those other cases?

It was over as soon as they made players wear hard shell helmets with facemasks. This used to be a mans sport, DAMNIT!!!!

I am against flag football but I wouldn't be opposed to going back to basically rugby gear and let the lads play

Look man, I'm not a fan of the drop tackle. Or the horse collar. I've posted many times about how I hate both of those tackles. But that's not the point here. The point is what the league has decided is not a legal tackle anymore.

Watch that video above again. Many of those tackles the NFL wants to get out of the game (presumably by flagging them) are just tackles. If they actually ref it that way, there'll be laundry all over the field all game, unless defenders just quit on plays just because they're slightly behind the runner.


I mean, maybe the player will figure out how to tackle these faster players without allowing their lower bodies to swing (from a purely physics standpoint this is problematic), but I doubt that's what's going to happen. More likely we'll see a further degradation of the quality of the game, as we watch players just simply give up on tackles in an effort not to draw a flag/fine. Same as defenders allowing QBs to escape or just hugging them instead of hitting them is making pass-rushers less effective as any contact outside of a very specific strike zone or if excessive force is used is now a flaggable/fineable offense that they have to wary of.



And btw, that's always been the cost of doing your job poorly on a football field. You're supposed to get hit hard if you don't do your job correctly in the NFL. That's the price. This whole huggy-squeezy/lay him down as gently as possible/don't hit him below the knees/don't hit him above the nipples/don't hit him too hard thing isn't football.

Those are great video examples. We see guys doing it intentionally. After watching the video watch this one on Mahomes again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLBKHbbYBXQ

I think you start with a broad definition, over-enforce it in the preseason, use primarily fines (not penalties) early on… and see how coaches adapt. Some of those examples seem pretty broad. But using that rugby video there seems to be a few with grabbing that seemed borderline horse collar and several examples of pinning the knees down where it’s suggested tacklers should try to use the ground instead of the players knees. Sometimes that’s unavoidable but maybe just overemphasizing different techniques will make it less common.

Some of those seem pretty bang bang but there are several in that video where I think we can all see the body is twisting in ways that aren’t ideal.

Well, yeah, and I've already said twice now that most of the examples in the rugby video are exactly the kind of tackle the NFL should ban. Such as the one Pat was the recipient of a couple seasons ago. That one was blatantly meant to injure, imo.

It's the other ones I'm concerned about that are basically the only way that defender is making that tackle in that situation.

Btw, this is a crappy plan. Basically you're saying we just need to get used to shitty reffing because of shitty rules to watch bad games early in the season and hope they sort it out as the seasons wears on. And then rinse and repeat every year forward, I guess?

No I think use the preseason to overemphasize to see how this looks in action. During the season I prefer using small fines and warnings early on instead of penalties that could get hog wild. Use the early days as teaching opportunities for both refs and players.

I imagine the nfl will instead overemphasize rules early in the season in general. It’s not my favorite approach but we’ve seen this so many times where the league tries to emphasize something early (see jawaan Taylor false starts) then dials it back when they realize it’s severely disrupting flow of game. As bad as nfl officiating is I trust that they don’t want this to lead to a flag fest anymore than we do.

The nfl needs to do more than just release a video. I agree some of those examples look too borderline to enforce. Talk with the players union about what’s reasonable. If fines are involved you’d have to think they’ll be loud about this. Maybe that video at some point turns into half. Because there are several examples where you can see how the grab from behind and pinning down with the other players legs is stuff you can actually de-emphasize.

It will be a little ugly at first. Kind of like the pitch clock in baseball. I’d rather they get their ducks in a row first but at this point I’m also kinda used to the nfl kind of storming and norming major rule changes

The game will get slower with more penalties, more bullshit and continued backsliding on what is football.

Guys are going just stop playing D.

You need a PHD to know what is a legit hit, what is a catch, what is a fumble or INT, what is offsides, what is roughing the passer and what is intentional grounding.

Every year they make new rules and it's always in favor of the offense or making the game less physical. It's ridiculous. There needs to be more balance because eventually every D is going to be pretty much trash and the league will turn into the area football league.

Also, lets keep it real there weren't many 7-6 games even back in the day and there's nothing wrong with watching good defense. The Ravens D w Ray Lewis, Chiefs D in 1990s, Bucs D w Warren Sapp and company, Steelers w Polamalu were a joy to watch.

And yet last year was a great year for defenses. Including our own. Defenses will adapt. From a player safety standpoint of course rules will and should favor offense. Because they are way more vulnerable to game and season impacting injuries and as long as that advantage is huge then defenses have an advantage and incentive to play dirty.

No position is more crucial to good game play in any sport than qb. And defenseless WRs are easily one of the most vulnerable on the field. So yeah, anyone would take arena league with the best players than replacement league with backups. I’m pretty sure of that.

You clearly didn't watch the video of the examples the NFL is saying will be illegal. Most of those are just tackles. The rugby style stuff should be banned, but that's not what is happening in the video the NFL put out.

Their video is bad, I agree. But they have stated the emphasis will be on dropping your own body weight on the ball carrier’s legs. The rugby video highlights assholes who have turned that into an art form so people can see what is meant by that.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-media-max-width="560"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">How the nfl wants you to tackle players after they banned the hip-drop tackle : <a href="https://t.co/kgIU6Q3pfm">https://t.co/kgIU6Q3pfm</a> <a href="https://t.co/dixCTpSViS">pic.twitter.com/dixCTpSViS</a></p>&mdash; Shannonnn sharpes Burner (PARODY Account) (@shannonsharpeee) <a href="https://twitter.com/shannonsharpeee/status/1772285333482123329?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 25, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

ROFL

Yah, that's about right.



Also, Kevin Hart is just a tiny man, lol. Looks like a hobbit.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I&#39;m telling you right now we are going to see a huge increase in offenses targeting tight ends in the flats because this rule makes it EXTREMELY difficult for smaller DBs to get tight ends on the ground from any angle that is to the side or behind them. <a href="https://t.co/Sv7J5smDNE">https://t.co/Sv7J5smDNE</a></p>&mdash; Brett Kollmann (@BrettKollmann) <a href="https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1772290295083753690?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 25, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Kelce is going to play to 40

Might want to chill with your exaggerations because that statement you made is ridiculous in the 1990s and early 2000s players weren't getting hurt like you are suggesting...

Defenses did good last season I admit, but there were a lot of injuries to QBs so that may have played a part. But there are no dominant defenses anymore, just good ones.

JJ Watt and plenty of other players have made statements echoing what I am saying so lets try and be objective here and realize if the NFL continues in this direction, defenses will continue to get worse. There should be more of a balance with these rule changes, that's all I'm saying.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...rop-tackle-ban

I can't be the only one constantly reading it as "NFL likely banning hip hop tackle", right??

That would be awesome!

Already is as far as I'm concerned it's ridiculous and you got chicks refereeing the game that never played.

Good lord....

More ways to "steer" games

Players are bigger and faster. A lot of the reason why dangerous hip drops are more common is because bigger guys are becoming better athletes. Concussion protocol is now enforced (and id hope people agree that’s a good thing) and that is going to be heavily skewed toward offense players. When it comes to contact it just goes without saying that offense players are going to be way more prone to injury. And big guys shouldn’t be punished just because they’re too big to take down.

Of course the players aren’t gonna like it. Neither side wants to soften the game. No player wants an independent doctor to dictate if they can play through a concussion or not. Players also don’t like targeting or roughing the passer calls. Too bad. Knocking players out of the game isn’t a strategy and players need to coach to find safer ways to tackle players.they won’t do it on their own so this forces their hand to figure something out.

I know you’re trying to hedge on defensive performance but last year was an outstanding year for defenses. And that includes the playoffs with healthy QBs. So the talk about the demise of defense is overblown. Defenses will adapt just as they have for all the roughing and targeting rules

Look, I'd be fine with the rule IF NFL officiating was consistent, they didn't swing COUNTLESS results on bogus penalties, they didn't "target" certain guys that Collinsworth embarrassed the officials over, or if they called what they saw not what they WANTED to see....PERIOD

No shit. We should keep Hardman now; with his speed he could draw 2-4 flags a game.




"unweight him"? Just what exactly does that mean?:rolleyes:


God, I hate the NFL rules committee. Fml.

Um, how long you been watching football? Because it's always been a strategy, since about 100 years ago. Hell, it was a strategy in HS when I put on a uniform.

The defense has A gigantic incentive to play dirty and knock players out of games for avoidable hits. Way more so now that players are bigger, faster and with concussion protocols being strictly enforced. It is easier than ever to decide if you can’t beat mahomes, take your worst player out as a goon and knock him into the blue tent. Or to accept a 15 yard penalty to blast Justin Jefferson knowing that there’s a decent probability you can take him off the field for the rest of the game. Concussion protocols are relatively new. The frequency of these hip drop tackles is something newer. These are new elements of the game everyone is dealing with.

The likelihood of avoidable injury is way worse for offense players. And that is not something you want to incentivize in a game where a single qb is so damn important that that injury alone can destroy a whole season.

This will change the dimensions of and how a safety plays.

I'll say it again, per Tom Pelissero, the league is planning on enforcing this primarily through fines, not flags. Not a great way to steer outcomes, but go off I guess.

I agree. Officiating is something that needs to be dealt with regardless.

But this is why you put this in the hands of the players union especially if fines are involved. Put it in their hands to blast apart the owners proposal. Then meet somewhere in the middle.

And while you do that fix officiating. At least this comes in exchange (probably) with making more penalties reviewable so I think the league gets the message that this is a sensitive topic

Oh, I'm pretty sure fines are a great way to alter how players play the game. Watch any game from the 1980s/1990s and how defenses react to QBs running the ball vs. how they play now. Alot of your ordinary LBs/DLs don't make tens of millions of dollars; those fines make a difference in their take-home pay pretty quickly.

Oh for sure. But it won't be random 15 yard penalties that directly impact the game. It'll be a deterrent that changes how guys tackle, which is the point.

(Assuming the reporting is right and they intend on this being mainly handled with fines)

The best outcome is that when you start messing with players money, the players union will get involved. So they’re going to push for this enforcement to be very very specific and they will fight back when the nfl overreaches. If it’s about fines that’ll have way more impact than penalties

It’s kind of like the pitch clock. Go enforce this in the preseason, spend a whole year practicing what this is gonna look like, then next year make a more official policy.

Gonna repost Chiefzilla's video embedded in case anybody hasn't watched. It's rugby but you can see players who have perfected the art of an intentional "swivel and hop on an opponent's legs" move that is clearly designed to injure. This is what the NFL is trying to get ahead of.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5KJ9mCbS3rU?si=4Od-AX8si54tYd7j" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You don't see how that can effect/impact the outcomes of games?:rolleyes:

Stop...it's sad

Of course. Everything effects outcomes of games. Wtf are we talking about. What it ISN'T is "steering". It's eliminating a dangerous, exploitable tackle. Enforcing it through fines makes it far less impactful on individual games. I was responding to the implication that this was all a way to make the game outcomes easier to control. That makes no sense.

Ah, okay. Yeah, I must've missed the part about steering. Wasn't thinking about that at all.

Following topic

All the whining in this thread is ****ing hilarious. You mean guys actually have to ****ing tackle the correct way again? OMG, What will they do?! There's no way players can tackle like they were taught to!

This should have been banned a while ago when it started to get regular use.

For all your bitching, one thing is correct: it takes a tiny bit more effort to take a more proper angle of pursuit and tackle someone with correct form. Some guys might whiff and give up some TDs because of it. Oh ****ing well.

The Rugby League in Australia banned it a while ago. It made no difference to the game, players got use to the new rules very quickly. NFL players will get use to it as well and it will make little difference. The reaction to a rule intended to protect the players is OTT.

100%

I'd rather the NFL banned hip hop instead.

I can tell you don't play football and probably never have. JJ Watt and many other defensive players would laugh at this post.

Hip drop tackle isn't tackling right because the owners and a bunch of soft fans say it isn't? Ha! Yeah ok....

All these tough as nails alphas mad that they can't watch OTHER guys get their legs broken.

The same guys who are complaining about this new rule change? The NFLPA is 100% against this rule change.

The people who know me know what level of football I played at chump. The person in this room who hasn't played might just be the one I'm responding to. Your football knowledge is about zero.

Seems like this will make it more difficult to tackle a ball carrier from behind and from a side angle as well.

Moar score. Moar bet. Moar money.

If the NFL can play the safety card while getting the above, they'll drive that square peg right through the round hole and you'll like it.

You guys are making a mountain out of something that isn't.

Each team runs roughly 1,050 plays, so about 33,600 for the year. According to NFL data, this tackle was used 230 times last season. That's less than 1% of all scrimmage plays.

Of those 230 uses, 15 resulted in injury of the player tackled. That's 6.5%.

So it isn't as often used as everyone thinks, it isn't necessary, and it results in a high injury rate.

Players need to take a better pursuit angle and tackle by wrapping up like they were taught.

Tell me how many times you remember this shitty tackle being used in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. It really wasn't. If you can get your hands on them enough to swing you body weight, you can get your hands on them enough to wrap up their legs and take them down without this form.

You're entitled to your opinion.

End of the day the rule is changed and there is nothing I can do about it. It is what it is. I'm just voicing my opinion on here. You don't like it? Oh well.

Injuries are a part of the game. It's unfortunate but it's reality. No one is putting a gun to these guys heads and forcing them to play. Constantly changing the rules to make the game less physical will eventually turn the game into the XFL or arena football league where offenses dominate and defenses are simply an afterthought.

Don't worry the NFL will turn into flag football soon enough. I'm sure you'll be very happy about that.

When you're done showing how much you know about football, read my post above.

My one little sentence is making a mountain?

It's not you, per se, it's the overall of this thread. Your point was just another on the stack of shit. It's not getting harder, that's the ****ing point.

This is clearly what the morons in this thread think will be called a penalty. No other explanation for the dumbassery.

Whatever the **** Arden Key did bunching up his legs so they purposely landed with full weight on Mahomes' leg in that Jags playoff game, that's the shit I want banned. We're lucky that injury wasn't worse.

Yet...your draft takes suck ROFL stop bragging

He is using the ground, not the players legs, to make the tackle. I don’t think this is the type of tackle the league is focusing on.

Aww, one of the primary Lounge morons has come out to play. I've forgotten more about the game than you could acquire in two lifetimes. Run along little bitch.

This is going to be a nightmare

No it won't according to the kccrow, the data analytics genius. It's only used in 0.001% of tackles (yet leads to 7% of injuries).

Learn to READ. It's from the ACTUAL NFL DATA you dumbass mother****er. The NFL said it was used 230 times and resulted in 15 injuries in 2023. 230/(~1,050 scrimmage plays * 32 teams) = just under 1% of scrimmage plays. 15/230 = 6.5%. So it's used relatively little yet, when it is, yields a high injury rate.

So maybe your tiny little ****ing brain can comprehend the fact that it 1) won't have as big of an impact on the game as you think it will (<1% of plays!) and 2) will reduce unnecessary injury.

I'm done arguing with incompetent ****s. My point is made.

Correct.

But just wait for it to be mis-called in a game like the Super Bowl.....

Remember any lousy targeting calls? It’ll be bumpy at first but players and coaches will learn to adapt, and I’m guessing the nfl will dial it back. A few blown calls is going to have way less of an impact than injuring a player who can’t play the entire second half.

I grew up on a farm, and I have seen a lot of calf rustling.

I think it's very easy to identify when someone tackles this way.

I also think it's very easy for tacklers to control whether their feet leave the ground and they use their dead weight to drag a player down from behind or not.

To me, the issue is still, and will continue to be, part time officials, who are barely competent at best, having another judgemental call to screw up and use to manipulate the game.

Exactly. Anyone that trusts NFL officials to get this right is an imbecile. That's literally my entire point. THIS WOULD BE GREAT IF NFL OFFICIATING WAS ANYTHING BUT AN ABOMINATION. This is not arguable.

Well said.

Just look at all the flags and fines for defenders who are in the middle of trying to get a sack, with no way of realistically stopping, and then they hit the QB 0.1 second after he throws the ball. Result - get a BS flag/fine. Refs can't even get late hits right and you expect me to have faith that they will get this right?

You clearly didn't watch the video the NFL released to show what will be penalized, because most of the examples were plain old football tackles.