If Bolton becomes a full-time starter at MLB and replaces Hitchens, I mean, I get wanting more but that's a pretty good 2nd round pick all things considered.

I wasn't thrilled with the pick because I would have preferred a CB, S or WR but it's not as if LB wasn't a need. I mean, the Chiefs haven't had a dynamic linebacking corp since when, the 60's?

The combination of Gay, Hitchens and Bolton this season will ensure that a good linebacker is on the field on every down. Bolton's addition will be critical in limiting the ground attack of the opponent and if the Chiefs can get an additional stop or two on 3rd down in each game, it's going to take quite a bit of pressure off of Mahomes and the offense, so they won't feel as if they need to score 45 every game in order to win.

Damien Wilson gone. Dumpster fire Ben Neimann is the projected starter.

Outright biggest hole on the entire roster, not even close. Our first pick fills that glaring need. This isn’t difficult to grasp.

And why is it controversial? We had a huge need and the GM filled it with a big asset. There’s nothing wrong with that

:facepalm:

By that logic, every single pick was a need pick. JFC.

You’re completely ignoring the facts about Bolton in favor of a narrative. You do this stupid ****ing shit all of the time.

You defend every move the team makes.

Dude no offense but if Adolph Hitler was still alive and hired as a Chief consultant you’d be defending him saying he really wasn’t that bad LMAO

There’s your “go to”. Now I’m just a homer.

This team often does what I want/expect them to do.

When they’re taking 3 guys that I had on my list of 1st round targets (thread) early in the process without even having a 1st round pick, of course I’m going to love our draft.

There’s proof all over this section that I was high on Bolton, Humphrey, Powell, Kaindoh, and Smith long before they became Chiefs.

Hell, you even asked me before day 3 who I wanted at edge rusher, and Kaindoh was literally one of the guys I mentioned. So it’s very disingenuous of you to pretend that I’m just being a homer.

I loved Travis Kelce, Chris Jones, Patrick Mahomes, Willie Gay, Mecole Hardman, Juan Thornhill, L’Jarius Sneed, Clyde Edwards-Helaire etc. all before the Chiefs drafted them. I have receipts as well.

It’s not my fault that me and the Chiefs/Veach see eye to eye on prospects often.

I wasn’t a huge fan of the Speaks pick or the 2018 draft as a whole, so it’s not like I just go along with whatever they do. Don’t let the facts get in the way of your narrative though!

But I’m clearly just a homer defending the Bolton/Kaindoh picks because I’ll defend every move they make!

Exactly.

It feels like the Chiefs didn't expect either Bolton OR Humphrey to be available when they were.

I didn't.

I expected Bolton to go in the 30's and I thought Humphrey was a fringe first rounder as well. And that was based on all the scouting reports, which had both of them slotted around 35.

Same here.

Didn’t even include either one in my list of 15 most likely picks at 58 and 63, because they were both in my top 40. I didn’t even realize Bolton was still on the board until we picked him.

Humphrey fell due to an amazingly talented OL class. 9 OL were taken in the 2nd rd ahead of him. They just pushed him down the board and the value was amazing.

In a normal year he’s a top 50 pick

Several of the guys taken ahead of him aren't nearly the prospect he is. The Chiefs were fortunate to get that kind of value at the end of the 2nd.

And to think, the whole thing was probably set in motion when the Raiders took Alex Leatherwood at 17. ROFL

Raiders gonna Raider, lol. Shouldn't have pissed off Hudson, tbh.

I have zero real insight, but I feel we would have gone receiver-corner with our 2nd's if those two weren't there. Just entirely too much value to let pass by with both guys at those spots. I mean, we just signed a center a couple of weeks before the draft.....

Based on my limited following during that point in the draft, I would say basham and creed were listed above bolton as bpa as far as what the analysts thought. And possibly marshall. But that was probably about it.

Good. We don't give a **** what you think.

OK, Bolton trash talking the Bucs already.

I like him now!

Huh? Link?

Sorry, that was a Nick Bolton fan..not him. Hopefully he feels that way though!

So, I just want to make sure I'm understanding your logic, a late second round pick should equate to one of the best at their position in every draft?

You must be quite the draft guru...

I'm amazed Veach hasn't reached out for your input

Bolton was apparently a first round prospect that fell. He was high on some of these experts boards like Daniel Jeremiah.

So yeah there should be high expectations

Despite any pre-draft issues I had with Bolton, he’s on our team now. I hope the best for him.

Hopefully he becomes an excellent backer for multiple contracts

I'm not a huge fan of the pick but the rational side of me sees the value and it's pretty high.

He's going to play this year and he's going to replace Hitchens next year. His floor is probably higher than Hitchens' talent level right now, so it will be an upgrade, even if it's only modest, and save us almost $10M.

That’s not how this works.

If he was taken high than he has high expectations. Just because he was higher on some boards....doesn’t mean shit.

The pick of Bolton tells you that the chiefs liked taco and danna more than perkins and basham. Or liked Bolton better than hitchens in comparison with Perkins or basham vs taco and danna. The chiefs just didn’t like basham or Perkins. Kaindoh has a higher ceiling than either player. He’s huge and long and has an elite 10 yard split. He’s a project but they picked him earlier than anticipated so maybe they see something there. They clearly liked kaindoh in the 4th better than basham or Perkins in the 2nd. Kaindoh is also more of a spags fit.

I don't think it tells you any of that.

They may have liked Perkins and Basham better than anyone on the roster and any other edge rushers remaining but didn't have them valued as high as Bolton and Humphrey. It's not like LB and OC weren't also future needs at a minimum.

I personally valued both over Bolton but not over Humphrey, albeit Perkins was a fringe fit here. I'd have likely taken Humphrey over any of them at 58 which takes Basham out of play regardless. If it came to Bolton vs Perkins, that would have been an awfully rough choice to make but I likely would have gone Perkins. It's easy for me to look in retrospect and say Basham and Humphrey but the draft doesn't run that way and you have to think who you would have taken first. Hopefully, Veach comes out the smart one and we all look back and think he made great choices.

Listen, I like Perkins too, but he's not a great fit as a 4-3 DE. No real length, no real beef. He's a 3-4 rushbacker. Here in KC, he'd have been a situational pass rusher, and that's not a great value fit. You have to keep the situation in mind as well as you're looking at players and not just fall in love with the kid regardless of scheme fit.

I like Basham alright, but in all honesty, I see him as a high floor, low ceiling player. I seriously doubt he's ever a difference maker type, but will likely be a solid if unspectacular DE. I don't mind rolling the dice later on a guy like Kaindoh, who COULD be a monster player OR could be selling insurance in three years. We've got enough Mike Dannas.

I agree with this.

We got Humphrey at 63 which nobody thought could happen. If they would have taken Humphrey at 58, Basham was gone.

I think they got good value and that's what they cared about. Not that they're in love with the guys already on the roster.

If they take Humphrey at 58 then I don’t think Bolton is there at 63.

One could argue that Bolton is a similar high floor, low ceiling type player.

That's a bigger thing at MLB than it is at edge. When you're drafting in the 2nd round and are trying to replace Anthony Hitchens, high floor is something you want.

Exactly.

Kaindoh might not have Basham’s high floor, but he definitely has more upside. You can’t find a LB like that in the 4th.

The thing people are missing about Basham is that he’s a guy that you would have to slide inside on passing downs to get the most out of his pass rush abilities.

We don’t need that. We have Jones, Reed, and Wharton. We need a true edge rusher.

I think Spags was sick and tired of putting Neimann and Sorenson at LB. In our 2 losses to the Raiders and Bucs we got our shit pushed in at the 2nd level.

In the SB we didn’t have Willie Gay, and to their credit Wilson (goal line stop) and Hitchens (forced incompletion in end zone) made plays but if you watch the 2nd half of the SB Brady literally went to the line and audibled.

Is Sorenson in as a LB? Okay we’re running.
Is Neimann in but with Sorenson to put 8 in the box? Okay we’re doing play action.

We had nothing in the middle of the field. It was by far our biggest weakness heading into the draft. They just could not expose Ben Neimann and/or Sorenson at LB anymore.

Add that our biggest competition for a ring requires us to defend the middle of the field and the run. Browns, Ravens and Bucs.

I wasn’t a big Bolton fan but I completely understand the pick

If this is what happens....then I can see why they didn’t take Basham.

He's essentially going to play the same position as Chris Jones. So yeah, no wonder they didn't take him.

We knew Basham could play downs at 3 technique, but playing there full time at 274lbs?

He’s gotta be a rotational versatile piece right?

Doesn't Buffalo run the 4-3 under? So they're going to move him around like they would in a 3-4.

That was my thoughts too. He won't play 3-T, he's going to play 5-T. They brought in Rousseau to play Leo.

I'm fine with it. I've been banging the "ILB who can play all 3 downs" drum for a while. I'm hopeful Bolton can do it. Dude has it all mentally, physically we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm excited with it. Alot of our problems against the run IMO, are that we have to play subpackages so much.

If you want a DE, I think you need to look for one to actually replace Clark in the near future. So you need a real war daddy on that side that can bend. Those usually don't go in the late 2nd.

So next years #1 is likely gonna be that.

Either DE or WR because their WR corp is just not very strong, especially considering the Chiefs have the best QB in the NFL.

Veach really needs to hit on at least two wide receivers that can be productive immediately in next year's draft because they won't be able to afford to pay another guy $16 million plus over the next several years because Hill is going to get at least $20.

That's a hell of a record.

Yep

Although atleast with wr you have andy who’s been able to develop mid rounders. I think you’ve gotta invest in one at some point but that’s also where Hardman needs to get his shit together

Maybe, but that hasn't happened much, if at all, during his time in KC.

Demarcus Robinson is the very definition of a JAG. While the Chiefs have given every opportunity to guys like Kemp, Fortson and Pringle, they've done absolutely nothing of note on the field.

Chris Conley was a decent selection but the Chiefs actually traded up for Conley, who did not live up to expectations, mainly due to injury. By the time he was a solid contributor in Year 4, the Chiefs let him walk.

It's really beyond time to address the WR corp, especially since the Chiefs can no longer afford to pay two impact WR's $16 to $20 million each.

It would be nice if Powell exceeds the expectations normally assigned to fifth round picks, the odds are against him even becoming a Demarcus Robinson, let alone, a Sammy Watkins.

Tyreek was a 5th round running back who’s been developed. Kelce a third rounder etc.

Odds aren’t great for this guys but he’s got production out of guys like Albert wilson and Conley so as long as they have Hill they will probably have to go with young guys or cheap vets at #2 wr

Oh, come on. That's disingenuous. Had Hill not plead guilty to choking his girlfriend at the time, the guy would have absolutely destroyed at the Combine and would have gone much, much higher in the draft. He'd have gone in the top of the 2nd round without a doubt and considering his speed, he may have been a 1st rounder.

Had Kelce not been a megadipshit in college who missed an entire season due to his dumbassery, he'd have gone much, much higher as well.

If you're going to bring up examples of True mid rounders, the only two receivers of note are Chris Conley and Demarcus Robinson, two guys that probably lived up to their draft status but nothing more.

Well unfortunately, by the time those guys were playing at a high enough level, the Chiefs allowed both to walk. I didn't really care much for Alligator Arms Wilson but I thought it was a mistake to allow Conley to walk on the cheap.

There must have been something personality-wise that didn't fit in the Chiefs lockerroom because he's a far better #3 or #4 than anyone else who's been given those roster spots and the $2.3 million he earned each season in Jacksonville certainly wasn't a back-breaker in terms of the cap.

Agree. I do think however that Noah Gray is going to be a really nice option as a receiver. Not expecting him to blow up but I can definitely see him making plays as that 3rd receiving option on 3rd down

We're going to have to develop WR's. We'll be paying Hill for a long time yet.

That's fine. Good problem to have.

:thumb:

The chiefs didn’t pick basham or Perkins bc they don’t fit the chiefs d. They would be situational players and just not a good fit. That’s why basham and Perkins weren’t picked and why kaindoh was. The chiefs don’t pass on a DE that they really liked bc they liked Bolton. Bolton’s a solid pick but you don’t pass over DE that you really like for Bolton.

Again, no guarantee of that IMO. I feel as though you're jumping to unjustified, absolute conclusions based on zero evidence. We can only deal in possibilities. The Chiefs may have thought they wanted both Bolton and Basham but felt Bolton was the better-graded player and that Basham had the better chance to slip to 63. There really is no absolute here other than what Veach and company thought.

I can feel very confident that Basham was on their board because he absolutely fits the defense. It's more of a matter of where on that board he was. It doesn't mean he didn't fit KC's D by any stretch, and he is definitely not going to be playing inside. To top it off, he's a player that was universally graded higher than Kaindoh by 3 rounds. He's a guy that is a better overall player than what they started last year in all phases at LDE and his ability to rush the passer from the edge is severely understated. He likely plays the 5T DE position in the 4-3 Under in Indy since he isn't a pure speed, Wide 9 rusher, that would man the Leo there. Think more along the lines of Seattle drafting LJ Collier, albeit he was taken way too early and is was not as good coming out as Basham. He's a solid DE at 270-275 and showed the ability to live in the backfield. After all, he did have 22.5 tackles for a loss on 85.5 tackles with 15 sacks in his last 19 games along with 7 forced fumbles. The dude is a player on the edge. I honestly think KC made a big mistake passing on Basham for Bolton, even if I do like Bolton and what he brings to the table. Like I said though, we don't know where exactly he was on their board. I feel pretty good that it was higher than Kaindoh by a healthy margin but I can't say absolutely. That said, there is a reason Basham went 2 rounds earlier.

As for Perkins, there is a good chance he wasn't on their board but I'm not sure it is absolute in terms of schematic fit and could be more about the issues he had that led to the suspension and other information gathered in the process. In terms of schematic fit, he's basically the same size as Frank Clark (definitely not the 271 he was at the combine but closer to about 250) so, again, I feel like just outright saying its schematic fit is making a big assumption. He's a first-round caliber producer that fell to the end of the 3rd, so there's something there other than skill for every team but I don't know what it is and neither do you. I give you a lot more leeway on the assumption he's not a fit here than with Basham.