Yeah - dunno why but the F-18 sorta became the red-headed step-child of the 4th generation fighters. Always seemed overlook but a remarkably versatile and effective platform in its own right.

It doesn’t have thrust vectoring, does it? What gives it that kind of ability to maneuver like that? I thought thrust vectoring was kinda what made that kind of nose authority possible? Definitely a bit over my skiis there…

it’s either a super hero or some James Bond/mission impossible action movie these days.

In the 90’s they made good action movies out of all kinds of plots. Fugitive, Buddy movie, alien invasions, kill the earth meteorite, con’s take over an airplane etc.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/...0154771492.jpg


Tom and Kelly

Actually, the P-51D made about 1,750 BHP on WEP and had an initial max climb rate of about 4,000ft/min. For comparison, a modern 737 has a max climb rate of 3,000ft/min. It had a top speed of over 440 mph.

But yeah, the Mustang is not a very big airplane.

The wing extensions on each side of the canopy (greatly enlarged from the YF-17 to F-18) are what gives it amazing nose control at all speeds. If an opponent gets a little slow against an 18 it's ****ed.

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/f...6-206_full.jpg


The only plane that has thrust vectoring (and only 2 dimensional) is the F-22, for the US. I guess the Marine F-35 counts, but I think it's only used for takeoff and landing just like the Harrier.

Our designers determined there is way too much energy lost while using 3 dimensional vectoring. The Russians have it on a few planes, and they appear to defy physics.

It would be on everything if the US determined it increases lethality.

Since this is a Top Gun thread, why not throw a little F-14 love into it?

Guess what they were going to install on the last proposed Tomcat Variant? The Super Tomcat 21:

https://thedrive.com/content-b/messa...21_6_1080p.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/36/f0...52ce969586.jpg

Leading edge wing extensions just like the F-18.

Yeah, I thought it must be those leading edge extensions. They can't be any sort of panacea though or you'd see them a lot more often.

It's not surprising they didn't work out on the Tomcat though - there are only so many aerodynamic 'boosts' you can give that big ol' bird. That thing was a tank with wings - I just don't see doing much to make them more maneuverable.

They were pretty prominent on the F-16 but not F-15, also a bigger jet. I wonder if they just don't have much impact on a heavy aircraft that's mostly just using brute strength to get where its going.

I read a story awhile ago about the F-15 and how insane they built that thing out of fear of the MiG (I think it was the 25). They thought the MiG was a world-beater so they overbuilt the hell out of the F-15. Then that Russian defected with it and they realized the MiG was pretty much nothing more than a rocket sled and pretty much a complete piece of shit at that.

But they'd built such a good jet that it essentially had no peer for about 20 years. I guess the Flanker would've been its contemporary when it finally came online but the USSR fell shortly after it first hit the scene, IIRC. And my recollection was that they just didn't have enough of those until the 90s to really use them much.

How many military platforms have ever been truly unchallenged for a decade? Maybe the Abrams? I mean they've been trying to replace that thing for 20 years and they keep coming to the same conclusion "damn - this thing is REALLY good - lets just put in some new targeting systems and upgrade the armor again..." My buddy was the commander of a Bradley in Iraq and he spoke highly of those but spoke almost in hushed awe about the Abrams.

I suspect it will go undefeated and history will look back on it about like the Iowa Class battleship - they'll never make a tank better than the Abrams; they'll just stop making those goliath main battle tanks.

The F-14 was extremely complex and very expensive to keep flying. Very good design, just didn't make sense.

I wish they would installed the stronger engine from the D's right off the bat. The A model engines were gutless and unreliable.

I've got dozens of books about Russian aircraft development, with the Famous Russian Aircraft series by Yefim Gordon being the best. I read through the Mig-31 book and it's amazing how much it looks like the 25 but is a far superior aircraft. Check them out, but hold onto your balls for the cost. I am trying to get the Su-27 book and it's expensive if you can find it.

On the tank side of things the Leopard II is considered the better tank, but the M1 has the receipts. It's kicked ass on the battlefield for a long time while the Leopard II has held it's dick in it's hand over that stretch.

Pft.

Find me a picture of an Abrams that looks like this:

https://www.bellingcat.com/app/uploa...6-1200x675.jpg

And we'll talk.

My buddy always said that the only thing that existed when he was out there (2007ish) that could take out an Abrams was another Abrams. I believe all of our Abrams losses are self-inflicted.

Dayum. That's how a T-72 reacts to a hit.

Finally got around to seeing this in theaters. It lives up to the hype and well worth the wait.

Movies like Top Gun: Maverick are why we go to the movies in theaters. Just a ****ing absolute blast from start to finish.

The dog fights were must see and the story/acting was surprisingly good and everything clicked for me. I also wasn't expecting it to pack such an emotional punch but it did.

The scene with Val Kilmer did it for me..

This was the best movie I've seen all year and I really thought it was going to suck.

Tom Cruise is a good actor...like it or not.

Tom Cruise is like Nicolas Cage, Will Smith, and The Rock where they just play the same kind of character over and over.

I’ll give Cruise credit for doing his own stunts, though. The movie was very enjoyable.

I see so many complaints/shots on social media about this movie being war propaganda LMAO

It’s about as low on propaganda as a movie about the military could possibly be.

I don’t understand how it’s propaganda when they don’t even mention what country the enemy is lol

Funny because that is exactly what I said.

Bro, it’s Iran. It is obvious.

Most long-term big name stars end up playing a character that becomes a huge part of most of their roles, and they mainly fool around on the edges in order to avoid being completely typecast. It's how they last as big stars.

https://photorator.com/photos/images...ran--19300.jpg


Tehran in winter. The topography of Iran is exactly as portrayed in the movie

I know right

The opposing pilots looked white though.

https://www.sat7uk.org/wp-content/up...an-cropped.jpg


I couldn’t tell faces but did they look like this?

Don’t even have to go that far.

One country in the world flies F-14s. Only one ever bought any from us to the best of my knowledge. Iran. Done and done.

And a presently non-nuclear country who could develop an enrichment program and thus violate international treaties and pose a direct security threat to the US? Who’s best accessible by carrier launch? And who would have access to the purchase of next gen fighters and Russian helicopters?

It’s very very VERY obviously Iran.

Right when they laid this out I knew who it was. Iran is the #1 bete noire of our regime. The posters on this thread may not be aware they were being propagandized, which is the surefire tell that they were.

I mean the only real alternative would be some sort of Western Russian separatist state splintering off and going rogue. Or Eastern European having a Russian puppet government who is then supplied with Iranian F-14s. But even then you’d launch an attack from a ground base somewhere, not a carrier.

It has to be Iran.

Maybe.

But **** Iran anyway.

I get it, it’s all the Juuuuuuuus. But I have no problem casting Iran as the big bad in one of these things. They've been a back-asswards shithole for 40 years.

I don’t like Iran at all.

Cruise has said himself - it's a love letter to naval aviation.

And when you watch it - just...duh. Of course it is. It's a salute to sailors and aviators. There's a reason its first screening was on the deck of a carrier. He loves these dudes.

Is that propaganda? I mean, I guess if you have sand in your vag. Remember, the concept of 'public relations' didn't exist until Edward Bernays decided that 'propaganda' had developed a negative connotation as a term of art. So he came up with a new one.

So if you use 'PR' as the proxy for 'propaganda' as it was originally intended - oh sure, why not. Yeah, if that's what you wanna call it, you can.

And is it pro-military? Um...yes. Very obviously.

Y'know what? Good. Jesus - has the entire country turned into disaffected twats? Are we a nation of 350 million Janine Garofalos?

Christ I hope not.

Yes - we absolutely still have a place in the world for 'rah rah, go USA!' movies. In fact in many ways we've had a gaping void in that area for years. I'm not going to pretend this is something that it isn't and don't feel compelled to anyway.

I mean - there's a group of people that spend a lot of time running away from the most obvious labels one could put on them - and weirdly, it's the same people who insist we run away from this. Projection; the same thing we always see from...uh...this group of people.

Tom Cruise is just a straight up movie star. He may not be the actor that Daniel Day Lewis is, but he's a STAR. He's magnetic. He draws people to him and he understands the movie machine as well or better than anyone.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XM2wOZ4f5Ts" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hell, he may be the last true 'star' we see for awhile. And he's been knocking this stuff out for 35 years. It's really really remarkable.

And damn he's legit. He just wants to LEARN things all the time. Frankly I can see how someone like him might have gotten sucked into Scientology because he's just so laser-focused that if he gets even an inkling of interest in something, he's going to go full bore and pretty much ignore naysayers.

He's a pros pro, man. And bankable and charismatic and entertaining and turned up to 11 at damn near all times. The entertainment industry will be exponentially worse when he decides to hang 'em up or if he simply can't do the job anymore.

Man, some of these look to be in (predictably) dreadful shape.

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/5/73533_1648665427.jpg

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/6/52517_1489660549.jpg

Others appear to have been upgraded fairly recently

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/wp-c...IRIAF-F-14.jpg

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/6/80854_1643532206.jpg

In fact, I think that last photo is the same jet with a new livery as the 2nd photo; both appear to be tail#3-6039

Man, 6050 has seen better days...

6066 here appears fairly middle of the road.

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/5/55623_1591721088.jpg

Honestly, you could convince me that 6050 is the one that Maverick actually flew in that movie. Thing doesn't even look airworthy.

Does it matter when a white middle aged protagonist saves the day in a machine made for war? That's going to royally trigger a horde of low IQ morons looking to bitch about something on twitter.

There is a F-4 Phantom peaking behind the F-14 in the first photo.

I wonder how they keep those TF30's running in the F-14.

Persians can be pasty.

Good eye.

You ever see these unnecessarily fancy paper airplanes called WhiteWings? It was a big envelop/book think full of paperboard think snapout sheets and I seem to remember balsa wood in there as well.

You’d assemble them and the kit came with 10-15 planes. One of them was the Phantom. I always felt like that thing just looked fast. They had an F15, F16, P51, Concorde, Wright flyer, all kinds of cool little largely disposable models to build.

So of course I’d get a pack of 15, build ‘em in a day and just annoy the hell out of my parents who figured it would keep me busy for at least a week or 2.

Found it!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154583310290

This was my favorite kit but in the early 90s they made a TON of them.

Hell yeah!

If you want to go down a rabbit hole, read about the F-4X. Mach 2.4 cruise and Mach 3.2 burst. It could outrun a Mig-25.

https://i0.wp.com/avgeekery.com/wp-c...pg?w=800&ssl=1

https://avgeekery.com/the-mach-3-f-4-phantom/

Gotta agree. This movie felt like a big **** you. You’re telling Tom cruise all the money is in streaming? That the world only cares about Marvel and new young movie stars? I’ll fly this goddamn plane myself.

He's a great actor, and hasn't just done big budget blockbuster stuff. It's kind of surprising that he's never won an Oscar.

Who was the admirals daughter Maverick ****ed in 1986? Was that Penny...back then?

That sounds right. Good catch.

Yup.

Penny Benjamin. I swear we went over this already but maybe that was a different thread.

It was a cool callback.

Fewer than 1% of women comprise our combat Air Force jets. 0.32% to be exact

But HollyWeird found her and put her into the plot ROFL

Good movie, no shits given.

And I said I liked it durrr

This woman was in the Navy. Not the Air Force.

The female pilot didn't bother me. She was a minor character, and her being a woman wasn't a big deal, nor was there any sort of subplot about anybody having an issue with it. She was there, did her job, no big deal.

You are going to love this, PB.

The ideal body type for a fighter pilot is a physically-fit black female.

Body weight distribution is key.

Learned this 25 years ago in Aviation Medicine class.

Exactly. They brought so little attention to the fact that she was a female that it was irrelevant.

Never would’ve guessed they were doing woke nonsense that long ago

So they want you to have a biggo booty, eh?

She did an interview where she was asked if she’d be back. She said she was fat and old, but that she looks age appropriate. She didn’t seem to hold any grudge. Have a ton of respect for her attitude here.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">lmaaaao poor Miles Teller <a href="https://t.co/D4faSDtYiC">pic.twitter.com/D4faSDtYiC</a></p>&mdash; Hannah Long (@HannahGraceLong) <a href="https://twitter.com/HannahGraceLong/status/1537449931824369671?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 16, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

"I was born with it, kid..."

God I love Tom Cruise. What an absolute maniac.

LMAO

That's ****ing awesome. I read it in Han Solo's voice.

ROFL Sounds like something Maverick would say..

I'm convinced that somewhere along the way, Johnny Depp just turned into Captain Jack Sparrow and that's when he went full weird.

If Tom Cruise just turns into Pete Mitchell, it would pretty much make him the worlds biggest badass.

But like you said, I kinda feel like he essentially played Tom Cruise in Maverick anyway. So he might be there already.

The hangar and plane at the start of the movie?

Both belong to him.

Christian Bale reportedly studied Tom Cruise's behavior in interviews to prepare for the role of Patrick Bateman for American Psycho. Shit is uncanny:eek:ROFL

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/u44omfZ1Jy">pic.twitter.com/u44omfZ1Jy</a></p>&mdash; robert franco, wandering ronin (@responsiblerob) <a href="https://twitter.com/responsiblerob/status/1530063259121856512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 27, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

**** LMAO

tom was ready to kill that guy

Some said that about Heath Ledgers Joker

That's funny. I rewatched American Psycho a few weeks ago for shits and grins.

I can definitely see it.

In fairness, it would've been much easier for Cruise to let that slide but/for the interviewers shit eating little smirk.

I feel like Tom handled that one fairly well, all things considered. It was a painfully awkward series of questions from a guy who could barely contain his troll excitement.

Brit reporters are generally assholes

That was really good. I hadn’t been to a theater in a while and really forgot how much better the sound is, especially since we don’t even have a sound bar. Really cool seeing the real footage in action with actors flying out of their seats and forces pulling on them in different directions as well.

Saw this last night, I would give it 3 out of 5 stars. Was good but not great!! kinda expected it to be better given the reviews!

You are the 1st person that was let down.

Good movie. Felt parts of it was "I am Tom Cruise-look at me"
I did not need to have the TC promo and speech at the beginning of the movie.

Pretty much sums up my feelings. Good but disappointing. Held back by a simplistic, contrived plot. Of the four movies I've actually seen in the theater in the past few months (Dune, Ghostbusters Afterlife and Batman being the others) this was the one I liked the least.

Still, it was enjoyable. The cast was likeable and the aerial footage was amazing.

You really liked Ghostbusters Afterlife better?? Really?

Yep. A lot of it was expectations. For me, Ghostbusters exceeded my limited expectations. Top Gun didn't live up to my extreme expectations. Everybody raved about how great it was, and while it had great flying scenes, it wasn't a great movie. It was a good movie with a silly plot.

I understand.. I think Topgun kind of stayed true to the 80s style of movie and that's what I expected..

Writings on the wall, time for the eagerly anticipated Cocktail 2!

I would agree with that, except for me that was kind of a bummer.

To me it would have been much better had Maverick died saving Rooster's life. As it was, you have this "impossible" attack and everybody survives. That would be like all the rebels surviving the Death Star attack. Well actually, this WAS all the rebels surviving the Death Star attack, since that whole sequence blatantly ripped off Star Wars, at least until they went full reerun with both getting shot down/surviving/escaping in the old tomcat.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, this was basically Avatar with jets. While it wasn't nearly as bad/annoying/insulting as Avatar was, any comparison to Avatar outside of special effects is not a good thing. That's how lame and predictable the story was.

At least Elizabeth Shue is still fairly hot!

Fact check: true

https://images.saymedia-content.com/...life-women.jpg

No doubt, and that movie is an 80’s guilty pleasure for me.

Adventures in Babysitting. I still watch it.

I haven't watched it in years, but it kind of reminds me of Roadhouse. I somehow doubt that there are great high level brotherhoods of bouncers and bartenders. :D