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*** Official 2019 Kansas City Royals Repository ***
(https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=322080)
3 days ago.
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I’ll be honest: I’m fine with seeing this team lose 10-20 extra games due to a crappy bullpen.
They have better young arms on the way in the near future (Zimmer, Staumont, Lovelady among them) that should add a lot of power back in the pen. They’re trying to rehab some vets and build some trade value. If it doesn’t work, and it costs you games, the other effect is raising your next draft pick slot. |
Should the Royals offer Mondesi an Acuna-type contract? Mondesi is 2 years older so maybe 6 years for $90 mil with options on the end?
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The bullpen has ranged from bad to sucked ass in every game so far. There's no reason to be "fine" with it. |
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This pen will look completely different in August and September. Ride the rebuild. |
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Nationals’ Trevor Rosenthal has faced seven batters over three appearances so far this season. This is how it has gone:<br><br>1B<br>1B<br>BB<br>1B<br>1B<br>BB<br>BB<br><br>0.0 IP, 4 H, 7 R/ER, 3 BB, 0 K<br><br>At this point, he’d have to pitch 21 consecutive scoreless innings just to get his ERA down to 3.00.</p>— Matt Chrietzberg (@BravesMattC) <a href="https://twitter.com/BravesMattC/status/1113544144595628037?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 3, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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We're talking about the difference between winning 84 and 74 or 64. They're going to upgrade the bullpen later this year with guys like Staumont and Lovelady. They're ready or near-ready. It's reasonable to take some time for those guys to develop and to let some cheap veteran arms build/try to rebuild some value. Adding guys like Diekman, Boxberger, etc. is done with an eye towards having more veteran guys (which would conceivably improve the team) and also having some guys who can be flipped for some form of value. Quote:
My fandom is based on the Royals being as awesome as possible as often as possible. It's a challenge for them due to the market sizes and realities of baseball. I'm not and haven't been a proponent of complete tear downs and purposeful tanks. But if it happens naturally... ok. |
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Next year ( 2020 ) is a major step, by 2021 if the young arms pan out the daily roster should be solid with enough experience to compete. |
I tend to agree with Duncan. The worst thing that could happen is that this team wins some games early. This team needs to be 20 games under by the end of May.
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We’re not the worst!!
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cubs Bullpen<br>17 ER, 17 BB in 17.1 IP <br><br>GIF me.</p>— Joe Ostrowski (@JoeO670) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeO670/status/1113633226810118145?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 4, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> |
My only issue with tolerating a bad bullpen is that it doesn't happen in a vacuum. It can be a defeater for young starting pitchers that do their jobs time and again. I'm OK with letting Boxberger pitch in a tight game that Homer Bailey or Danny Duffy starts (or Kennedy, if he ends up starting some games). But not Brad Keller or Junis or Lopez. I want the bullpen to deliver those guys the wins they've earned.
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A race for the worst! |
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Do you think there are any players, other than Mondesi, that are completely untouchable? I kinda wonder if they'd be willing to trade a Keller, Merrifield, Soler, Junis, etc. if they got blown away with an offer. |
Can we please drop the concept of “flipping” vets at the deadline?
It’s not real. It doesn’t happen. They have literally zero value. |
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Btw Duda is starting at first today
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I had no idea but Chris Ellis the pitcher they DFA probably won’t be back. The Royals have to offer him back to the Cards and they will more then likely get him back. He was the only the second pitcher who hasn’t allowed a run in the bullpen besides Zimmer but thanks Yost for DFA him you piece of shit
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I used to love Dan Duda............when he was a 1B for the NYM's........
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I would say Keller and Juno’s are untouchable as goin, controlled SPs with 4+ years of control. Merrifield, Soler, etc. would be available, For the right price. Both have plenty of cheap control left, so you wouldn’t move them for just any deal. Soler would also likely need an AL suitor, as his defense isn’t good enough to fly for most in RF. Quote:
We could if it didn’t actually happen anymore. Teams don’t surrender the value they once did, but trades still happen. Here’s a recap from last year: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spo...0ftoio3a<br /> You can get some international bonus dollars (might be helpful this year considering they’re expected to splash 3-4 million on Erick Pena). Or lottery ticket arms. Sometimes you hit the jackpot. Most times, you don’t. Fernando Tatis was acquired for James Shields, then proceeded to blow up into an elite prospect. But when you’re bad, it makes sense to roll the dice and see if you get lucky. |
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I just looked up Elvis Luciano who was part of the Jon Jay trade. Well he was the first player in the majors born after 2000, and he plays on the Blue Jays bc of the Rule 5 draft. We'd rather sign shitty T. Gore and Owings who will never amount to anything than try out a lottery ticket?
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He was 18 years old when the Rule 5 draft happened and was at rookie ball last year. The Royals didn’t have him on the 40, so he wasn’t protected (and he was only eligible to be selected in the Rule V due to an unusual contract stipulation from his signing) It was very surprising the Blue Jays took him and were willing to roster him all year. |
I wonder how far we'll get into the season before Mondesi finally draws a walk.
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I don’t care about his raw walk total if his approach continues to be good. Haven’t seen today’s game but know he’s 0-3 with 3 Ks. Honestly, not sure why you’re worrying about that 25 ABs into the season, when he’s carry and OPS north of 1.000. |
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What does a post on chiefsplanet have to do with that poster's life? |
I miss Ventura. He got me fired up when he pitched like no other player. Every game had the potential to be must-watch TV. Would he throw 99 and blow by guys? Would he yell at Mike Trout for no reason? Would he be charged by Manny Machado? It was a lot of fun, and now when I watch the Royals it's boring old losing, can we walk the bases loaded and keep walking guys baseball.
RIP Yordado. Hopefully Singer will be the next exciting pitcher to watch. |
MLB needs to get their shit together. They've ruined opening day with the stupid overseas shit a week before, playing games in March, and no game on a friday? WTF. Also end the season on Labor day.
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So you want a 130 game season, then? |
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The start date is fine but I wouldn't be upset to end it much earlier. By the time the NFL rolls around a lot of people have checked out.
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Some have already checked out.
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It's so crazy to think about how highly regarded our farm system was with Hosmer, Moose and all those other guys, but none of them touched the potential Mondesi has. Last year as a 22 year old he had a SLG that matched Eric Hosmers highest SLG and Hosmer did that when he was playing for a new contract. Im so excited to see what Mondesi can become. On a side note, I am so incredibly happy that Hosmer didn't sign here. I think that deal would have been so much worse thsn the Alex Gordon deal. One last thing, can someone give me a good break down Khalil Lee? According to MLB.com he is our 2nd highest rated prospect. What is his potential like? I was going to buy some of his 1st Bowman Chrome auto cards while they are still cheap. I've read he's a legit 5 tool player and he has a knack for getting on base. Who does he compare to in the majors. ? |
Looks like Edinson Volquez might have retore his UCL. That might be a wrap on his career. If so, thank you for everything, Eddie.
He got the dreaded “sprained elbow” diagnosis. |
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He’s a smaller OF with good raw power. The 5-tool talk is legitimate. He might be a little bit of a stretch in CF for the K, but he’s someone who could be an incredibly plus corner guy there. He has had good plate discipline throughout his minor league career, with good walk rates. Two years ago, he struck out a bunch. Last year, he really cut his K rate but it sapped some power. He’s probably a 15-20 HR guy playing for the Royals, but he runs well enough to steal 20+ bases. |
I can’t take this team seriously with Owings playing every day.
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Dear God why not just bring up Nicky Lopez? What is the ****ing obsession with trash like Chris Owings? Did he promise to never look at porn if he could start every day? It's not like Nicky Lopez is really young, he's 24. He played 57 games in AAA last year and had a .781 OPS. He's better than Chris Owings in every aspect of the game.
So is the plan to just run Owings out there every single day as long as he's able to get a hit every 3 or 4 games? I know its a hot take, but I don't think this organization makes the post season again with DM as our GM. Yeah he brought us a championship, but he had a really good couple year stretch and lucked into this dominant bullpen and hit on a couple of draft picks, but other than that he has been trash. Now go ahead and tell me how wrong I am. |
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You're complaining about Owings justifiably, but for the wrong player. Owings and Duda shouldn't be playing in lieu of Dozier or O'Hearn, period. The Royals need to let those two just play and see what happens. Moore did far more than you're giving him credit for. He completely overhauled the organization top-to-bottom. They had a pathetic presence in Latin America and pathetic scouting staff before Moore. He convinced Glass to invest in the major league roster as well as the minor league system as well. They started popping legit talent from Latin America for the first time. Ever. He completely overmade the entire org. You don't build a minor league system with the depth and quality the Royals did by getting lucky with a few high picks. And that "lucked into" bullpen? Featured 2 home grown guys who were relievers the whole way (Herrera and Holland), a guy acquired in trade with an eye on knowing his floor was as an elite back-end arm (Davis) and guys picked up on the cheap (Madson) or converted to the pen (Hochevar). Moore also nailed several moves to make the 2014 and 2015 and 2013 teams happen. Trades. Small FA signings. Moore and his staff need to improve their player development pipeline. I'd grade their first five years as excellent in terms of developing the minors, the middle five years as below average, and the past two as trending back in the right direction. I'm not certain he'll put together a consistent winner in Kansas City again. It's hard to do. There are some quirks that make you wonder about him repeating what he did before, but he still deserves a lot more credit than you gave him here. |
Probably best to check out until next year with this pen. I think most of the fan base already has.
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FIRE DAYTON. (.. which honestly I'd get behind that statement if [when] Matheny replaces Neddard Snark as skipper) |
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Don’t forget to mention it has the greater economic disparity and small market teams have the hardest road. |
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I do think DM can provide a consistent winner if you are looking at it in a 3 yr /10 yr window. But he is going to have to continue to draft well, PU on some veteran talent to mix as he did in 2014-2016 window. IMHO, as a small market team with a larger portion of bandwagon fans, I just don't think we should expect anything better that this. |
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DM has been terrible at drafting and has yet to develop a legit starting pitcher, sure Brad Keller may be the 1st , but im going to give that some time. In his 1st 3 drafts he had the 1st, the 2nd, and the 3rd overall pick and yes those guys developed into decent players, but since then none of our 1st round guys have amounted to much of anything. Our minor league systems has 1 top 100 guy and hes there by default. Im not denying he did some good things. He turned Grienke(a young starter, Cy Young winner, cheap and not just a 1 year rental) into Cain, Escobar, and Odorizzi. If he would have messed up that deal he should have been fired. Flipped Odorizzi and Wil Myers for James Shields and Wade Davis, both of those guys played big parts in getting to the WS in 2014 and Davis was one the main reasons for us winning in 2015. Everything DM did from 2013-2015 worked and lucky for us fans and his job security we got a WS championship because of it. A broken clock is right twice a day and DM was lucky enough to have a bunch of wins all during the same time which culminated into 2 pennants and 1 WS win. Im greatful for what DM and Ned were able to give us, but I think it's time for some new management. I think 2013-2015 fogged our memory some and kinda made us forget how incompetent those 2 can be and how bad it was from 2006 - 2012 and 2016 - now. Sure he did some good things in that time, but it was alllooottttt more bad than good. |
So Ned actually said today that he believed in the bullpen. Said it’s early and can’t get upset. Said if he shows emotions then his players will see that and it will translate to the field. I show emotion every damn time Owings is in the lineup....
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I said this last year, and I said it again this year... this team will go as far as the bullpen, and the last two years he has done a horrible job of bullpen FA signings. Last year the Maurer/Boyer/Grimm trio sunk us right away. This year isn't looking quite as horrific but they're still blowing games every day. If we had a good bullpen we'd probably be 5-2 or something like that right and everyone would be excited because we haven't even seen any of the talent in the minors yet. |
There's also some luck to it. I agree this team hasn't done a good job of developing starting pitchers, but that's a different conversation if Yordano Ventura is our #1 starter right now.
If Duffy ever got healthy, you'd feel pretty good about Ventura/Keller/Junis/Duffy. You'd also feel better about the future of the offense if it was Whit/Mondesi/Acuna at the top of the order, but it's not. |
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2014: 30 Starts/3.20 ERA/183 IP/1.295 WHIP/8.3 H/9 inn/.7 HR/9 inn/3.4 BB/9 inn/7.8 SO/9 inn 2015: 28 Starts/4.08 ERA/163 IP/1.298 WHIP/8.5 H/9 inn/.8 HR/9 inn/3.2 BB/9 inn/8.6 SO/9 inn 2016: 32 Starts/4.45 ERA/186 IP/1.441 WHIP/9.2 H/9 inn/1.1 HR/9 inn/3.8 BB/9 inn/7.0 SO/9 inn I am in no way saying that YV sucked just that it's possible that he was starting to decline for some reason. I don't think a healthy Danny Duffy makes us any better. For some reason he just isn't as good as he was. He had alot of promise, but he's on the wrong side of 30 now. I just wish they could have traded in the offseason after the 2017 season or during the season last year. |
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When it comes to spending DM gives out a ton of bad contracts. Sure he's hit on a few reclamation projects, Melky Cabrera for example, he's given out way too much money to guys who were trash. So sure everyone misses on contracts, but the one thing DM does that is absolutely ****ing infuriating, he has this burning desire to make sure that every single year he has the grittiest son of a bitch he can find; 2007 - Dayton Moore finds his first true love in the form of a shitty little SS who couldn't get a hit off of a little leaguer, but damn could he work that glove baby - Tony Pena Jr was his name and getting out was his game. 2008 - Oh we have multiple sacks of shit this year, because in 2007 Dayton had his eyes on another player on the team by the name of Ross Gload. Ross wasn't a complete shit sucker in 2007, so DM became infatuated with him. By 2008 RG was as gritty as they get and he played the game the right way. What more could Moore ask for from his 1st baseman he was all ready playing hard and had 3 HR and a .348 slg % in 122 games. Let's not forget about TPJ, the magician with the glove, he gritted his way to a .398 OPS and -1.8 WAR. That production earned him 95 games and 235 plate appearances. 2009 - Love triangle is over. Move over TPJ, there's a new Willie in town and DM is head over heels. This guy is top 2 in grit and is the ultimate Swiss Army Knife. He can play every position on the field and is an offensive juggernaut. Willie Bloomquist posts a .663 OPS and gosh dang it guys who have the ability to be that good at the plate and that good all over the field are hard to find. There's nothing like summer love, but this love is about to come to and end. There is a new grit master on the horizon and DM has been eyeing him for awhile and all it takes to get him is Mark Teahen. 2010 - 2013 - Dayton getz married. Chris Getz. So dreamy. The Master of Grit. Chris Getz loved to get down and dirty, literally. Dayton had to invest in a new washing machine because there wasn't a game in those 4 marvelous seasons that Chris didn't have a dirt or grass stain on his jersey. 4 seasons of bliss for DM, but unfortunately injuries cut this marriage short. Four years of starting at 2nd base for the Royals. Dayton knew that no one else in the system could come close to producing like Chris. A .601 OPS is just too good. If only CG could have stayed healthy. He would be the highest paid Royals and still playing for us. Let us not forget that DM is a slut and monogamy is idiotic, 2011-2013 Dayton had a side piece by the name of Frenchy and Frenchy fooled everyone in 2011. 2011 allowed Frenchy to be around for 2012 and part of 2013. 2014 - 2015 - Dayton has his rebound and becomes a better person, also Royals win the pennant twice and 30 years after their 1st championship they win their 2nd. His name was Omar and he was exotic. Dayton threw money at Omar and Omar comforted Mr. Moore. Omar sucked ass during his time with the Royals, but DM didn't care, he brought a championship to a city for the 1st time in 30 years. 2016-2018 The WS hangover years and God dammit you just cant end a streak like Alshitty had. He sucked shit for so long that you just couldn't stop it. Everyone likes watching a trainwreck right? 2019 - DM has become an alcoholic and after the rollercoaster he was just on he needs someone to enjoy these last few years with. Chris Owings, youre up buddy. |
Lol! Fantastic! Made my morning.
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Ironman Owings not in the lineup today
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Oh my word. Where to start... First: If top draft picks were all it took to turn a team around, why do teams get stuck in perpetual cycles of suck? It happens. The MLB draft is a bigger crapshoot than the NFL or NBA. By far. You don’t have very many known quantities. And the Royals system wasn’t just built on #1 picks. You can’t build a system that way. It was built with good top picks, by nabbing a lot of talent in the later rounds by paying big bonuses to guys drafted later, by bringing in talent from Latin America, and by making good trades. It also should be noted that he was able to turn that into two WS appearances and a WS title for a small market team. Many GMs have not been able to close the deal on that. He deserves credit for it. Second (from a previous post of yours) You can’t say “the Royals haven’t developed any starting pitchers” when Duffy, Ventura and Junis are around. If you want to say they haven’t developed enough of them or high enough quality, OK. But you can’t sum it at zero. It’s inaccurate. Third: When the team is not good, it’s going to sign cheap, stop-gap veterans to fill the major league roster. Those guys are going to play a lot and be not good. That’s how it works. And it’s better than short-changing the development frame of players. People freaked out about Escobar last year. He was signed because they wanted Mondesi to earn the job by actually improving in some areas (health, consistency, approach at plate). All have happened. He’s a better player for having had to return to Omaha and improve. I’ll close with this: Moore deserves criticism in some arenas. He hasn’t been perfect. The Infante contract blew up on him. Alex Gordon fell off a cliff 2-3 years before anyone expected it. Ian Kennedy has been a real disaster. His faith and loyalty to players and staff is a weakness at times (and a strength at others). It’s an issue when it blocks legitimate players they need to play, who are ready (like Dozier and O’Hearn). It’s been an asset many times, too (with Zack Greinke, with Moustakas, Homer, Cain, and Gordon) The farm system is pointed up. The Royals have moved from a bottom 5 system at this time last year to a top half system that will improve. And it’s not being done just through big ticket expenses at the top of the draft. It’s being done by changing the profile of guys the Royals go after (they seem to have learned their lesson on the volatile HS pitchers they spent much of the first half of this decade burning draft capital on) and finding more players late in the draft. This year’s major league team isn’t going to be good. It never was. A better bullpen and Nicky Lopez might make it a 75 win team instead of a 65-win team. But who cares? Clearly not many Royals fans, who want to limit conversation to 2014 and 2015 and not talk about the winning season in 2013, and the competitive seasons in 2017 and 2016, in which the team had a chance late. There are things to watch and want to see happen. Merrifield. Mondesi. Soler. Keller. Junis. Jorge Lopez. The young relievers, when they come up, later. The rest of it really doesn’t matter. F |
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You got my 3 cheers but soon the Drama Queen fans and kneejerkers will be here to tell us how much we are wrong! You are Oh so spot on about the draft, to the uninformed all of our #1's and #2's should be in the majors in 2 years! Boy I wish they could mature and prosper that quick. Again, props on trying to help explain this to them! |
I agree with most of what Duncan said, even if I am pretty critical of Moore. However, I'm not sure I'd call the farm system top half yet. Let's see how they do this year.
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Should also say, re: criticism of Moore, they didn’t draft well enough once the system changed before 2012. Zimmer was bad luck. But those drafts had too many hollow high picks for the Royals to survive without missing a beat.
But they have made a huge change in draft strategy starting in 16. Its paying off in the way the system is turning. |
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They aren't a consensus top 1/2 system. MLB and Baseball America are the two most look at first, and they're in the low 20s in those. Baseball Prospectus is the one I pay for and trust the most, and they're 16th in that list (technically just on the other side of the top half). That's what I tend to reference. I like Baseball Prospectus because they look deeper and at players that are farther away, and are less influenced by the "closeness" of players, and less lkely to rank high floor, low ceiling guys in their top 100 list. I think that's more realistic than the way Baseball America approaches it. Example: Casey Mize is ranked like an elite prospect by Baseball America and MLB.com (top 20). His upside is that of a 3/4 starter, but his floor is a 5th starter. |
Gordon playing like an All Star 29 Abs in. So theres that!
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Owings is out!!!! But Duda is in
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Dont worry bullpen will blow in later on
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No one wanted to play us the last part of 2013. I remember Duncan. We were HOT
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I’d rather have Duda then Owings but O Hearn should be in the lineup everyday. Schwindel should be the DH. Soler in RF and Whit back to his normal position at second. Gordon has been playing like an all star. Yost said Ynoa could be a option in the bullpen. I don’t even know where to start on who to get rid of first. Probably McCarthy or Peralta
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Gordon was really bad in 2017 but other than that he’s been ok. He’s off to a decent start too. I doubt that contract will end up being very bad. Ian Kennedy tho needs to consider suicide
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And remember he pitched much better in the 2nd half of 2016. In the 2nd half he posted a 3.73 ERA with 2 CG. He wasn't completely lights out but he looked like a solid starting pitcher. |
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A bit surprised you are avoiding the attendance discussion. I’m calling it a near crisis while others say “meh”. This topic is going to really come to the forefront publicly this summer - mark my words. You know how I’m always ahead of the curve bro. For those saying it’s just cause we ain’t winnin.....I encourage you to look up attendance figures at peer cities like Mil-Denver-Cinci. CIN been garbage last 5 years, attendance: 2.5, 2.4, 1.9, 1.8, 1.6. We did 1.6 last year and won’t touch it this year. |
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