That actually says a lot. You're like 10 years younger than me.

Yup. Thrash metal was dying when I started listening to heavy music, but I still collected the shit out of it cos I missed it.

I'm honestly more of a jam band/rock and roll/stoner rock/doom type of dude. I love sludgy riff driven rock.

Me too actually.

I'm not a huge thrash fan - in fact, Megadeth is really the only band of that ilk that I absolutely love. I like Slayer too.

My absolute fave is Sabbath, and the Dio incarnation is my favorite Sabbath lineup. I'm also a huge Priest fan. For new bands, I like Queens of the Stone Age and The Sword.

Nah

On the first point, yes. You're right. I was always expressing that this was my tastes, my opinion, what works/doesn't work for me.

Noodling does not equal riffing. And I listen to a fair amount of rock. I don't expect metal when I listen to rock. When I listen to metal, well, I expect metal. In large part that means either great riffs, song structures, or atmosphere. Preferably all three. When it comes to thrash metal, that means bands like Heathen, Anacrusis, or Vektor. But you don't need all three. With thrash you just really need a good riff quotient. Listen to Dark Angel's album "Darkness Descends." It's got like 150+ riffs over the course of the album. That's an incredible riff quotient. The very opposite of what bores me.

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Josh Homme is a hero of mine (loved Kyuss back in the day) and I like the Sword too. Solid jam bands.

I dislike Dio Sabbath immensely. I like Dio's solo stuff better.

Early Sabbath was essentially stoner rock, which is right up my alley.

Well, I know noodling doesn't equal riffing.

I don't hang up as much about genres. Actually I can't stand people who try to define music entirely by genre, as it's attempting to put art into a neat little box. It shouldn't work that way.

Again, I like Pantera. I don't listen to it because that shit seriously got old for me over a decade ago. They are far from being pure 'thrash' metal, so comparing them to bands like that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

You're lost, my son. Hopelessly lost.

I have to agree with you on Dio Sabbath, although people like what they like and I'm OK with that.

Yeah, generally not a fan of Dio.

In many ways, I dislike pure heavy metal. I personally find much of their imagery silly moreso than 'dark' and their voices, in spite of being outstanding in terms of range, make my ears bleed.

Much respect their talent and influence, but I don't care to listen to it. Dio was the heavy metal prototype singer, so if you're into that type of singing, he's a legend.

As I said, I'm more into slow jammy bands or more elaborate progressive rock. Blues rock. Stuff like that. Given my tastes, it makes perfect sense.

Yeah, I'm not a big blues rock guy myself. I prefer more classically influenced stuff. To me, the ultimate "pure" metal bands are Judas Priest and The Scorpions during the 70's.

And for the record, I personally feel like Sabbath, while heavier and darker, was still a heavy blues band like Zeppelin and others during the 70s. A lot BETTER IMO, but still a British blues band at the core. They weren't a "metal" band until Ronnie arrived.

Agreed.

It was tuned down, slowed down, and of course Ozzie had unique imagery in his vocals... but yeah that's pretty much on point. They doomed it up. That's why I love 'em.

I like Ozzy immensely. Don't get me wrong, for me Dio Sabbath is 1a and Ozzy Sabbath is 1b (and Dio and Ozzy solo are 1c and 1d really). There's not a ton of separation.

But like I said, I like a lot of classical music and those types of arrangements. Tony Iommi said it best:

"Dio would sing across the riff, whereas Ozzy would follow the riff, like in "Iron Man". Ronnie came in and gave us another angle on writing."

You like slow, plodding, and powerful. This is where it's at:

Again, Ronnie is/was very talented.

It's just that I find what he does annoying. It's the pitch of his voice... that whole style of singing. I can't stand it. I know it's hard and I know they're hitting high notes and their voice is an instrument and part of the arrangement. It's simply that it annoys the ever lovin' hell out of me. LMAO

To the guys in Sabbath (except Geezer) simply wanted a better singer than Ozzy. He was, for the most part, uninvolved in the entire process. I mean Geezer wrote the lyrics. Ozzie just did the vocal melodies. Ozzie had no input on the song structure or arrangement, whereas Ronnie did.

Ronnie was far more talented than Ozzy, but even knowing that his voice is still annoying as hell to me.

Ronnie's voice is annoying but Ozzy's isn't? I find that strange.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, but YOU WERE THE ONE WHO QUESTIONED MY PHRASING AND ALSO INVITED CROSS-GENRE COMPARISON IN THE FIRST PLACE WHEN YOU ACCUSED ME OF BEING UNABLE TO APPRECIATE ROCK & ROLL so I was just working with what you gave me.

Man I was just giving you shit because you were calling someone's art 'garbage' just because you didn't like it and were essentially comparing it to straight thrash metal and it's lack of riffs or whatever the hell. "If it's thrash, it needs this many riffs per song". They did what they did. How guys like you quantify it isn't the concern of most artists.

The fact that you don't like it, or don't appreciate it, does not in and of itself make it garbage. You are not an authority on what is or is not good music no matter how much of it you listen to. That is the ONLY point I was making. The same thing applies to movies and TV by the way.

Ozzy may try to sing in a similar style, but he's so bad that he can't get to that high pitch that annoys me and Ronnie seemed to really enjoy STAYING there all the damn time. He doesn't have to, but I guess adding some bass to it wasn't his thing. He could have, because his voice was quite literally an instrument for music.

Again man, it's personal taste. I'm sure if I quizzed you enough you'd say something that made no sense to me too. It's weird like that.

Kyuss will probably go down as my all time favourite band. Unfortunately, I can't say that I hold much respect for Josh Homme these days.

http://noisecreep.com/vista-chino-de...it-josh-homme/

I'm aware of his disputes with Kyuss, but that is their problem. I don't know anything about their relationships or their process.

All indications are that he's pretty much a huge asshole. I already know that. LMAO

Kyuss is my jam. Sky Valley FTMFW

And I mean this with absolutely no offensive intent...

It's clear to me you haven't heard much Dio. Not that you should have if you don't like him. I don't expect anybody to listen to something they don't like.

Ronnie has a dynamic range and there's a lot of songs that he sings in lower registers. A lot actually. Example "Children of the Sea"

Ozzy actually sings predominantly in a much higher pitch than Ronnie. Much higher. Example "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath"

No, it's cool. Talking about music is fun. Nobody likes all of the same things. That would be creepy.

Dude, it's not all Homme's fault.

I do have mad respect for Brant Bjork and I feel bad for him and the guys but he called out Scott Reeder too and Reeder is one of the nicest guys by all accounts.

There's more to it than just Josh being a dick. I mean Dave Grohl is one of the coolest dudes anywhere on the planet and he stuck with Josh through this.

Speaking of "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" I'm listening to "A National Acrobat" right now. ****ing kickass song.

You can't comprehend or understand the words that I've used in my posts, nor can you even comprehend the words you've used in your own posts. I was always stating my opinion about Pantera, not an objective claim (though their theft is pretty objectively true). Also, that wasn't the only point you were making; I know because I know how to read. I am surprised by your sudden turn towards idiocy.

Never a fan of Pantera, saw them from the beginning and thought they blew chunks. I still remember getting Master of puppets on my 16th birthday and i was totally blown away...that was the start of "Speed Metal". Peace Sells was a great album as well, but i have invested so much time into Master of puppets...it's easily one of the best albums of all time. I don't listen to any of it much anymore, i'm more into Euro Techno Industrial still(stuck on that for a while) but I remember the early days of speed metal...Exodus...Exciter....Metallica...Slayer...Agent Steel...I bought so many cassettes and Cd's back in the day...takes me back even though i've progressed beyond the Metal stage at this point.

Maybe for you. For some of us, speed metal started before that. ;)

There are always two sides to every story. Who to believe? Be careful of what you say about Reeder. Read the article attached.
I see a guy that has everything going for him in Homme and decided to shit on his fellow mates simply because he had the opportunity to. Sure, they had a falling out years ago but just let the guys do Kyuss Lives! and you do your own thing with QOTSA.
I've met Josh, Nick, Brant and John. All at separate times. Josh was the only prick of the bunch.

Read this one.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...wsuit-20120521

BTW, Megadeath doesn't compare to Metallica. :)

Of course not. One is a mediocre garage band and the other is a heavy metal masterpiece. :D

Speaking of Ozzy's vocals, does anyone else hear a loss of range on "13"? To me Ozzy is starting to get the same thing that happened to Dio over his last few recordings, where his singing sounds muted or something.

I still like "13"; it just makes me sad. :(

It's to be expected. Guys lose their higher registers when they get older, unless they're actually trained to sing. Those guys can often hold onto it longer.

Yeah, I know. It just sucks when you start to hear it. Ozzy is 65 so he has actually held up pretty well, all things considered.

ROFL

He's lucky he didn't ****ing die 25 years ago!

Saw Ozzy a couple of years ago when Slash and Miles Kennedy opened for him (They kicked ass, btw. That would have been a hell of a concert in and of itself). I swear Ozzy was auto tuned in every single song. Was sad to hear.

Not surprising. Ozzy's priorities are mixed up.

What he did with the "Blizzard" re-issue was one of the lowest things I've ever seen in the metal world...

Yeah, what was the story on that? Did he bring in his own band to remix the sounds and not pay the original musicians anything on the re-release? Something along those lines? And that's not even taking into account how he compensates his current band, or his dealings with Bill Ward with the latest Sabbath projects....

I'm not so sure that it's not Sharon behind the scenes just sticking it to absolutely everybody she can lay her hands on.

It's funny. I was really into metal/hard rock/classic rock in high school up through the mid-80's. I wasn't a huge Black Sabbath fan until Dio joined but loved Ozzy's first two albums and saw him for both the "Speak of the Devil" tour and the "Bark at the Moon" tour. I was also really into a lot of the NWOBHM bands, particularly the "goth-y" ones like Holocaust, Demon and Angel Witch.

By the mid-80's, about the time "ultimate Sin" comes out, I drifted away from metal as I was getting bored with the direction it was going. In fact, one of the last records I bought was "Kill 'Em All" by some unknown band.

Fast forward way too many years and my oldest son finds my old metal and classic rock records. He becomes a huge Zeppelin, Sabbath, Ozzy and Metallica fan and buys up all of the stuff that I didn't have.

It was kind of a crash course in getting caught up. I was so out of the loop that I hadn't realized that Dio had made a third Sabbath album (not counting as Heaven and Hell) and I hadn't heard any of the later Ozzy or Metallica albums.

Anyway, the point of all of that was that I haven't really cared or even heard about the more recent controversies and mostly I have looked at this through nostalgia so it really doesn't matter to me.

Just to stick with the OP, none of really liked Megadeth, mostly because of the singing. :)

He re-recorded the entire album with his current band. My understanding is that his current band is under a contract that doesn't pay them royalties for music they didn't help "create". Since it was a back catalog re-issue, it was the ONLY version on the market, basically guaranteeing that Ozzy got 100% of the cut.

And if screwing Daisley and Kerslake wasn't bad enough, there was NOTHING on the album or in the liner notes indicating it was anything other than a re-master of the original release. It wasn't until people started comparing it to the original and realizing it wasn't the original that Ozzy came out about it.

The funny thing is, Ozzy blames it on Sharon and Sharon blames it on Ozzy.

He's done sneaky shit before. He shattered Jake E Lee emotionally. It took almost 20 years for the guy to pick up a guitar again. I saw him play on That Metal Show and he look like a 16-year old kid at a HS talent show. He looked so nervous I thought he was gonna puke.

Dehumanizer is a great album.

Yeah, it's pretty good. I will have to say "Heaven and Hell" and "Mob Rules" are still my favorites, though that's probably still nostalgia talking.

I TOTALLY agree.

I'm Mr. Nostalgia when it comes to music. I love "Dehumanizer" but it's just not even in the same zip code as those 2.

"Sign of the Southern Cross" is still one of the heaviest songs I've ever heard (even though we both know it's not) and "Children of the Sea" is my all time favorite.

The core of my collection is Sabbath (both versions), Dio, Ozzy, Scorpions (70's lineup with Uli Jon Roth), Motorhead, UFO, and Judas Priest.

The Sabbath tune that I can never turn away is War Pigs. They have a lot of great music, but that one always gets ... great driving song.

Feed your head, my friend. Feed your head.

The only thing that prevents "Heaven and Hell" from being the perfect metal album is "Lonely Is the Word", which I don't particularly care for.


I'm with you on most of those. We've talked about it before but I'm not as high on the Dio solo stuff as you, particularly the later albums. I was a huge Rainbow fan, though.

I like "Lights Out" but have never owned any UFO albums (I did see the Michael Schenker Group in concert, does that count?).

I can't agree at all about Judas Priest, though. It's funny - I had "Hell Bent for Leather" in high school and loved that album but I have never liked anything else they did. I had a friend that was a huge Priest fan and he kept trying to convert me - even drug me along to the see them on their "Screaming for Vengeance" tour - and I just never particularly cared for them.

one of my favorite albums is Rainbow In The Dark.
I could push play on that one, and listen to the entire thing and like every song.

Gypsy has one of my favorite riffs.

Just for Frosty...

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:D

**** dude. And here I thought we were having a moment. I ****ing LOVE that song. Heavy in a distinctly 70's way. Grinding but spacey.

I have all of their albums with Dio. None of the later stuff.

Kind of. He was a pretty much a worthless drunk by then, though.

Dude, "Sad Wings of Destiny", "Sin After Sin", and "Stained Class" are quintessential metal albums. Not the compartmentalized or synth stuff of the 80's. Crunchy, riffy 70's metal.

"Rainbow in the Dark" is actually a song. It's on the album "Holy Diver".

I actually don't mind this. :D

If I want to annoy the crap out of my son, I play this song.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. I've heard this all before. :D

I just can't get around Halford's voice.

Yeah, you win. WTF

What? You don't like lounge music? :)

.....I can't believe I typed that.
I know better. what the hell is wrong with me.
Seriously.....I'm sort of pissed at myselfROFL

Were you high? That excuse works for me. :D

Why is no one talking about Manowar? LMAO

It appears we are now. :D

I know that shit is cheesy as all ****....but they're actually pretty talented. And I haven't come across anyone who knows who they are since I was in high school.

Yeah, I never really got into them. They never really broke through here in the states.

If we had the access to music in the mid-80's that we did now, I totally would have become a fan because I was into D&D and heavy metal.

They spawned a ****ing MOVEMENT in the rest of the world though. There's power metal bands everywhere, it's one of the most popular types of music in continental Europe.

Yeah....D&D and heavy metal were the reasons that I got into them. My best friend at the time gave me one of their CDs and I listened to that shit. Plus they have heavy greek mythology influences in their music.

LMAO

Violence and bloodshed, Holy War...yup i've heard them..bought a few of their albums....I liked them although didn't think they were incredible...Now Overkill was awesome...Bobby Blitz Ellsworth ftw!

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No love for the original Fates Warning? great band...

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Wasn't there a movement at one time to get Overkill and Testament added to "The Big Four"?

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Chuck Billay say yes.

It always takes great men like you to inform people what their opinion is so that you can argue against something you yourself created. It sure is easy that way isn't it? Please fabricate away. Tell me ALL of the points I was making...

You're getting defensive because you know you waltz around acting like the authority on music, TV, Movies... pretty much everything that requires nothing more than sitting on your ass and criticizing other people's accomplishments. Somehow this has manifested arrogance. You don't state things as opinions, you state them as objective facts. If you don't understand that, then your reading/writing isn't nearly as strong as you believe.

The only thing I contested is that "Reaper dislikes = garbage". and everything said was intended to illustrate that.

Everything else is just you fabricating things to attack me over. You're being childish, but feel free to keep calling names if it makes ya feel like a winner.

I don't know why I'm giving you the effort, seeing as you are being obtuse, but here goes.

1.) Yes, I called Pantera garbage. This is no more or less an example of a poster stating his opinion about a band than Pestilence saying Manowar is cheesy yet talented or Dayze saying Freidman's guitar work makes Hammett's look like child's play. Moreover, in post #139, I did as I was asked and clarified my statement that Pantera was garbage. Look at the language of that post: I was talking about what I like and how things sound to me. If that doesn't make it obvious that there's inherent subjectivity there then I don't know how to change the rules of English to suit your need to have your opinion treated the same as anyone else's.


2.) You claim that "the ONLY point [you ] were trying to make" is I am not the authority on music. I claim that you were making other points beyond that, and you have asked me to tell you, so here goes: a.) you made the point that caring about the amount of riffs per song is unimportant (ironically as if your sensibilities were authoritative?), b.) you made the point that a reliance upon rigid genre/subgenre classification is limiting (I couldn't tell if that was directed toward me or just said in general), c.) you made the point that Pantera shouldn't be compared to bands that play faster/have more riffs (implying that the reasons I gave for finding Pantera boring were invalid at worst or shortsighted at best), d.) your point that cross-genre comparison doesn't really make sense is doubly-troubling, because i.) you just said that defining a band by genre can be a limiting exercise and ii.) you opened the floor to this kind of comparison by alleging that I couldn't appreciate rock music because of my stated preference for "riff quotient" in non-atmospheric metal (which is one Hell of an assumption).
TL;DR? I count at least three major points in addition to your stated main point that I am not the authority on music.

By the way, I immediately agreed with you that me calling them garbage was a completely subjective claim based on my own tastes. Post #165. I immediately agreed with you. We are not in argument here about that.

The only thing we seem to be in argument in is what, exactly, you are saying, and why you can't understand the conversation we're having. My conclusion is that your disdain for me is such that you haven't been reading my posts closely enough. Which, I mean, that happens. I admit: in reviewing these posts, I realized that I misread one of yours. I implied that you said noodling=riffing, but I did so based on reading your use of "nor matching" in a previous post as "to match." My bad on that misreading.

Zero fabrications. Unless you count that misreading as a fabrication. Then, one.

I think Helloween and Scorpions had a much bigger impact at least in Europe. Along of course with NWOBHM like Priest, Saxon, and Maiden.

You should watch Sam Dunn's "Metal Evolution". Great documentary.

Bands like Blind Guardian, Stratovarius, and Rhapsody of Fire all consider the roots of Power Metal to be in Maiden, Scorpions, Helloween, and Manowar.

Just started really getting into Megadeth. Cool thread!

Wow, I forgot about this thread.

Haven’t scrolled back to see if Dane chimed in. I enjoy hearing his inside info on music stuff.

I like their End Game album pretty well.
I’m sure there’s a lot newer shit they have out that I haven’t even heard . I need to check it out
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Love when it picks up around 1:30
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Ironically Dane and I were talking in another thread about Dio the other day. One of my favorite Dim albums is Killing The Dragon and Doug Aldrich (also from Whitesnake) played guitar on that album. It's a monster, killer album.

And apparently Dane use to hang out with Doug. :D

****ing love Dio.

I just listened to Gypsy today.

We were talking about Dio with Black Sabbath back when this thread first started in 2014.

Have you ever heard the album they recorded as Heaven and Hell? It came out in 2009, the year before Ronnie died. It's a great freaking album.

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Marty Friedman auditioning back in 1989. Pretty cool



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Megadeth is my favorite thrash band but Marty Friedman is some next level shit. I remember when his first solo album came out. Then he turns around and joins Megadeth. :drool:

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I was reading that Friedman was in a band called Cacophony. Ive never even heard of them. Ill have to give that a listen sometime.

Yes, with Jason Becker, who later joined David Lee Roth only to have his career cut short by ALS.

Becker was actually diagnosed in 1990 and is STILL ALIVE. Pretty amazing story and there's a documentary out there you should watch about it.

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Here's an absolutely beautiful song by Jason Becker. Keep in mind the guy lost his ability to speak, let alone everything else, in 1996. The song was composed in 2017/2018 through computer software allowing him to visualize the guitar in his mind. I pretty much cry every time I hear it.

It features guest appearances by several of his former friends and quite a few fellow Shrapnel Records guys from that time, but yeah basically a list of guitar gods:

Michael Lee Firkins (Shrapnel)
Steve Vai
Joe Bonamassa
Paul Gilbert (Shrapnel, Mr. Big)
Neal Schon (Journey)
Mattias Eklundh (Freak Kitchen, produced Steve Vai)
Marty Friedman (Shrapnel, Megadeth)
Greg Howe (Shrapnel)
Jeff Loomis (Nevermore)
Richie Kotzen (Shrapnel, Winery Dogs)
Gus G. (Firewind, Ozzy, too many things to name)
Steve Hunter (session player for many big names)
Ben Woods

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