Don't worry, guys, I'm sure the best catcher of his generation, and one of the two or three best right-handed hitters ever are going to be walking through that door to give their prime years to this team at below market value.

Yeah isn’t it a 2 year deal with a club option for a 3rd if it’s going well? If so, I’m surprised Sonny signed that.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Forecast: ☀️<br><br>We have signed 2023 AL Cy Young finalist Sonny Gray to a three-year contract that includes a club option for 2027! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> <a href="https://t.co/YBn5EWETmL">pic.twitter.com/YBn5EWETmL</a></p>&mdash; St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals/status/1729267288300286416?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So initial reports were wrong. It’s a 4 year deal with a voidable 4th year.

I just saw that the 3rd year option is for 30m with a 5M buyout per Goold. Seems like a better than expected deal.

It was a good deal. Unfortunately the trash Lynn/Gibson/Matz/past Mikolas deal offset it by a mile. When you're just wasting money on 4 trash starters, what's the point of Sonny?

Karriker hit this point home a bit more eloquently this morning.

Who would want Matz?

The #STLCards have told teams that LHP Steven Matz is available via trade, per Michael Marino.

Japanese superstar Yoshinobu Yamamoto could fill that rotation spot, as Jeff Jones says the Cardinals’ interest in him is ‘real.’

Matz, entering the third year of his 4-year, $44 million deal, was relegated to the bullpen last season before making his return to the rotation in early July; he pitched to a 1.82 ERA and a 2.84 FIP in 7 starts to finish the year.

However, given his .235 BABIP in that stretch, it may not be sustainable.

With his strong end to the 2023 season, now seems like the time to sell high on him.

In the process, the club will kill two birds with one stone – freeing up $12.5 million in payroll and opening a rotation spot.

Lance Lynn just got $11 million and is definitively worse than Matz.

If you're going to spend $11 million on Lynn, why would you turn around and trade Matz at $12 million? No, he's not a workhorse but when healthy he's a legit 3. Lynn ain't. If you sneak into the post-season because of a bad division, Matz is someone you could give the ball at some point and not hate yourself for it.

Matz, oddly enough, has actual upside in his contract and even 2 healthy months to start the season would make him a DAMN attractive deadline piece. There's just not a great reason to deal him.

That's the 4th year.

It's essentially a 3 year, $70 million deal plus a $30 million 4th year or $5 million team buyout. So effectively 3/$75 but if Gray ages like Charlie Morton, the 4th year isn't necessarily cost prohibitive.

But it's pretty damn unlikely. Much simpler to just think of it as 3/$75 and move along.

Thank God they got the Stifel patch photoshopped on there, was worried Mo might miss out on that money.

Ah, I’d completely misread the report and that makes a lot more sense.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sonny Gray, Cardinals<br><br>$10M - 2024<br>$25M - 2025<br>$35M - 2026<br><br>Club option 2027 for $30M or $5M buyout (payable $1M on 1/15/27; 1/15/28; 1/15/29; 1/15/30; 1/15/31)<br><br>If option exercised by Club, Player may opt out for $5M (payable $1M on 1/15/27; 1/15/28; 1/15/29; 1/15/30; 1/15/31).</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1730071415653609577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wouldn't it have been much easier to say "Mutual Option for $30 million w/ a $5 million buyout" Jon?

Am I missing something here?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Breaking: Top CF prospect Jackson Chourio, 19, and the Brewers are expected to complete today the richest contract ever for a player who has yet to reach the big leagues. The deal is expected to be for 8 guaranteed years snd close to $80M and include two team options.</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1730217176978616799?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's how Scotty B wrote it for him to say

May they be blessed with the same success the Phillies had with Kingery.

What's crazy to me is that the Brewers all but said the quiet part out loud when these discussions were being had.

All the reporting was essentially "Hey, if Chourio signs the deal, the Brewers may bring him North. If not, they're going to play service time games with him..."

I guess running that sort of thing through 'media sources' could protect them a little, but shouldn't the MLBPA be furious about it? It's just really strange to see things that overt.

Here's what's odd to me - look at the deal that Julio Rodriguez signed a single year down the road. Guy got a $200 million contract because he had a hot start to his career. There's a LOT of money to be made by just waiting a little bit.

Then again, $80 million guaranteed is life-altering. Especially if there's an okay sum of that up front (even as much as $2-3 million). I can certainly understand him saying "Hey, I'll still hit free agency in my 20s even if the options are picked up; if I'm great, I'll make more than I can ever spend on that contract and if I suck, I'm still rich..."

I'd be curious what the option years are. If those are $20+ million, it's a pretty defensible decision by Chourio.

No doubt. You hear a lot of talk about what it would take the O's to extend Gunnar Henderson and Adley Rutchsman. $200 million is the starting point. It would have been a Corbin Carroll type contract ($111 million) for Gunnar at this time last year.

Before Chourio, the five to sign long-term without any MLB service time were Luis Robert and Eloy Jimenez of the White Sox, Mariners' Evan White, Phillies' Scott Kingery and Astros' Jon Singleton. Only two of them have worked out but only the Sox duo had the type of prospect pedigree of Chourio.

Chourio has some of the most explosive bat speed I have ever seen. He's totally tooled up. But I thought the same thing about Victor Robles. Robles is why I can't blame Chourio for hedging.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cardinals Still Showing Interest In Dylan Cease <a href="https://t.co/Ef9Up5zOMl">https://t.co/Ef9Up5zOMl</a> <a href="https://t.co/eE2J7UWKKU">pic.twitter.com/eE2J7UWKKU</a></p>&mdash; MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) <a href="https://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors/status/1730269758027714728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He'll probably end up a Brave.

Some tard on Royals Twitter posted this trade. Figured you guys would get a good chuckle.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">No but I would trade Salvador Perez for him. Garcia needs to be moved for another high upside long term controlled Bat like Jordan Walker in Stl…</p>&mdash; Matt Vernon (@Ryon_Reyne) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ryon_Reyne/status/1730284414574231798?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Garcia for Cabrera isn't even a move the Marlins would make and that's not enough for that dude...

Isnt it going to take something like Gorman/Donovan to land him?

Probably wouldn't take Gorman, may well take Donovan.

Either would be asinine.

He's a pending free agent with shitty command. I'm not giving up that much cost controlled offensive talent for that. Not when he has exactly 1 year in a 5 year career where he's been a truly good pitcher.

He is not a pending FA. He only has 4 years of service time. He has 2 years left.

They couldn’t work out how to make Yadi a yes man huh?

————————————————————————————-
Yadier Molina is joining the #STLCards as a special advisor with scheduled visits during spring training and the regular season, he said on Grandes en los Deportes.

He opted not to become a full-time coach in 2024 due to family matters.

(h/t: Twitter/Enrique_Rojas1)

So he'll show his face enough that dumb shit fans think he has some input but not enough to say shit about anything.

Walker for Garcia would be flat awful for the Cards.

Signing him for his name alone would be worth it
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Cardinals are reportedly interested in Korean closer Woo-suk Go <br><br>Story with some background on Go and what he could bring to the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> bullpen: <a href="https://t.co/fU3Uj0nU5f">https://t.co/fU3Uj0nU5f</a></p>&mdash; Josh Jacobs (@joshjacoMLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/joshjacoMLB/status/1730427527347286038?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 1, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mo will sign that guy just so when we yell "You Suck!!" He'll spin it to say we're cheering for the new closer.

I yelled "Mo Sucks" when he was on the field at the last game i went to. The BFIB looked at me like i did it naked.

And that is why we don't have nice things. Calling out terrible leadership should be encouraged, not frowned upon.

Its very weird. Everyone in here has been on the fire Mo bandwagon for years. Yet, on game day, and on TV, it seems the BFIB that are attending games think he's doing a good job. I don't get the disconnect between them and us.
THIS!

It's not much different than the True Fans who thought that 10-6 with a game manager was all you could ask for. We've seen this bullshit before and we know what it leads to.

Some Mo quotes when asked about adding another starter that I saw on MLBTradeRumors this morning that made me laugh in how predictable they were:

“We feel like we have a strong five right now,” Mozeliak told Gregg Palermo of Spectrum News. “We feel like we have three or four guys that could give us depth throughout the season as well, so it’s not like a front-line priority but you never say never because something may pop up and make sense.”

Mo be like…. We got a #2/#3 and #4 pitcher. What more can any fan ask for?

Fans are like …… uhhhh we needed 4 new pitchers and another one ready to go when one of the starters breaks down.

Any more word on Yamamoto? I saw where the RedSox gave up on Ohtani and are now interested in Yamamoto.

A lot of chatter that Cardinals first baseman Bill White is a strong candidate to be elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame today by the Contemporary Era Committee.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In 24 hours, the Hall of Fame’s Class of 2024 could begin to take shape. Tune into <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBNetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLBNetwork</a> at 7:30 p.m. ET tomorrow to learn the results of this year’s Contemporary Baseball Era Committee vote.<br><br>Read more: <a href="https://t.co/dMUdWlfD0q">https://t.co/dMUdWlfD0q</a> <a href="https://t.co/mkGEstFKQ3">pic.twitter.com/mkGEstFKQ3</a></p>&mdash; National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum ⚾ (@baseballhall) <a href="https://twitter.com/baseballhall/status/1731108539714736584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 3, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Leyland should have a cigarette in his hand in the photo.
sec

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mozeliak: Cardinals Listening To Offers On Tyler O&#39;Neill <a href="https://t.co/fzpEckQmWT">https://t.co/fzpEckQmWT</a> <a href="https://t.co/v4jA9L7miX">pic.twitter.com/v4jA9L7miX</a></p>&mdash; MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) <a href="https://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors/status/1731712421830479953?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 4, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Haven't we known that pretty much back to the All Star Break?

Or is this more of a "We are GOING to deal him, if only for a relief arm in High A and some salary relief..." sort of thing? Because I guess that would be a little different.

I do think many people fail to recognize the impact he has defensively. The outfield defense is CLEARLY better when he's out there. By a ton. He's a differencemaker defensively even when he isn't hitting. Even if he's replacement level offensively, he's a 2 WAR player, IMO, because of the defense. He's probably the best defensive LFer in baseball.

I think they're making a mistake just casting that out. But I think they make a LOT of mistakes so that's not really surprising.

At this point what can they get for him? Sone A ball lottery ticket 3rd basemen?

I've been pimping for the Royals to trade for him. He can play outfield at Kauffman and give a solid right hand bat even if he is made out of glass vagina

80 grade raw power will play even at Kaufman.

Dude doesn't hit wall-scrapers. When he hits 'em, they stay hit. And his defense in that big OF of yours would be nice.

That said, he's a pump and dump candidate for someone. He's going to have depressed counting stats in KC even if he stays healthy. Is that worthwhile for y'all?

I figure any pending FA you trade for is because you think you can rehab his value and flip him for a younger asset as part of the rebuild. How would O'Neill really fit that model?

His defense, potential bat, along with age and salary I think its worth it for the Royals.

Old friend alert
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pirates acquire LHP Marco Gonzales from Braves in trade <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@JeffPassan</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Ken_Rosenthal</a></p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1732235153257247142?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

DJ - STL media on the O'Neil to Royals rumors now
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Also on the ����front: I believe Ben Fred mentioned this in his chat yesterday, but count the Kansas City Royals among the teams with interest in Tyler O’Neill.</p>&mdash; Jeff Jones (@jmjones) <a href="https://twitter.com/jmjones/status/1732457995403960343?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I never can tell with y'all - do you guys hate Scott Barlow at the moment? Or are you friends again? Or did you already trade him?

Mozeliak is looking for a reliever and we already have guys that can put up a 6 ERA. Who you got?

Barlow is gone, traded him to San Diego. The Fathers just traded him to Cleveland.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Oli Marmol had best start 20-5 next season. <a href="https://t.co/wYpERMJt7l">https://t.co/wYpERMJt7l</a></p>&mdash; Craig Calcaterra (@craigcalcaterra) <a href="https://twitter.com/craigcalcaterra/status/1732468003675992560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is one of the most transparent attempts to garner undeserved fan support I've ever seen.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nice. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> <a href="https://t.co/Z1P5jLmN77">pic.twitter.com/Z1P5jLmN77</a></p>&mdash; Jim Hayes (@TheCatOnBallyTV) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheCatOnBallyTV/status/1732480357008597057?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Muh nostalgia

These guys are pathetic

I'm sure it's not a no-show gig designed to stoke fan goodwill.

This team is clearly above such shenanigans.

THey just drafted a kid from the Red Sox in 1st round of the rule 5 draft. This kid got hammered at AAA last season. Hopefully he can get it together but I don't know anything else about him.

https://www.si.com/mlb/cardinals/pro...-5-draft-nate3

presumably a big arm they can stick in relief and hope they iron out an issue somewhere. Almost always command.

The Rule 5 is pretty predictable at this point.

EDIT: Surprisingly, he didn't walk many guys. Must just throw too many cock-shots or maybe he was shaking off injury. Nothing of note in the profile though; doesn't miss as many bats as his velocity says he should - suggests his breaking ball is fringy.

That or he's just a fastball/cutter guy who's going to rely on groundballs and absorb 50 fairly forgettable innings.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Take that No. 4 out of storage.<br><br>As part of his new role, Yadier Molina will be in uniform at times, and perhaps even in the dugout for games.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/stlcards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#stlcards</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/cardinals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#cardinals</a></p>&mdash; Derrick Goold (@dgoold) <a href="https://twitter.com/dgoold/status/1732522961586848111?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Somehow I believe this is going to make Olli even worse. He's going to be looking over his shoulder and managing scared all season because they're setting Yadi up to take his job. This way at the All Star break when the Cards are 30-50 Yadi takes over the ship when it's already hit the goddamn iceberg.

The ****? ROFL

What the **** is this shit?

Its obvious that Yadi is taking over as manager when this season eventually turns to shit.

I'm sure Marmol treating every game like a game 7 because he's worried about his job can't POSSIBLY have dire long-term consequences...

Rather than running this circus they could have went the essy route and kept Shildt.

But, he had a different baseball opinion than Mo. need yes men only.

Right?! He's already shown a willingness to throw his eam under the bus in a meaningless early regular season game. How bad is this insecure one who sucks the penis going to get if he fears for his job?

He sucked too...but him being the fall guy from Mo is absolutely sickening

Doesn’t say what we got in return
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tyler O’Neill is being traded to Red Sox</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1733252854284963866?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

that might actually get us something though it's an odd spot for him.

Boston has a developing farm and some solid BP arms. GIMME TANNER HOUCK!!!

As for O'Neill - you're pissing away his defensive value having him play LF in Fenway. There's barely any ground to cover out there. Oh well.

Curious to see what we get back.

OMG Mo in the HOF :banghead:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">MLB Network analyst and former second baseman Harold Reynolds on the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a>:<br><br>&quot;Most clubs can&#39;t turn it around. They can.&quot;<br><br>On John Mozeliak:<br><br>&quot;Look at his resume. There&#39;s no doubt in my mind he&#39;s going to Cooperstown.&quot;<br><br>🔊Listen: <a href="https://t.co/ff4eHUP4Ws">https://t.co/ff4eHUP4Ws</a> <a href="https://t.co/GOVQP7XoIy">pic.twitter.com/GOVQP7XoIy</a></p>&mdash; KMOX Sports (@KMOXSports) <a href="https://twitter.com/KMOXSports/status/1733148262071148603?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If that happened I would tow a 155mm Howitzer to the outskirts of Cooperstown and shell that ****ing building to oblivion.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tyler O&#39;Neill has been traded to the Mariners for Marco Gonzales, sources tell JP Morosi <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a></p>&mdash; David Kleinstuber (@DKleinstuber) <a href="https://twitter.com/DKleinstuber/status/1733254381577916818?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Y'all know how many GMs are in the Hall of Fame?

4. Four.

Branch Rickey, Larry MacPhail, Ed Barrow, George Weiss...

And John Mozeliak.

Yeah - that checks out. John Mozeliak: First GM elected to the Hall of fame in 50 years. He's been THAT great.

That's the dumbest thing I've seen on the internet in awhile.

And I weep
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tyler O’Neill is being traded to Red Sox</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1733252854284963866?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well Marco Gonzales is a Pirate after the Mariners traded him to the Braves first.

So that seems...unlikely.

Sean McAdam saying two prospects.

Lame.

If we got two of them, they'll both be mediocre as hell. Organizational chaff. Probably a similar return to the Flaherty pile of scraps.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Robertson was one of the arms picked up for the Dodgers in the Kiké Hernández trade. Promising bullpen guy. Santos was acquired from the Phillies for CJ Chatham a few years ago. Maybe an up/down depth pitcher.</p>&mdash; Alex Speier (@alexspeier) <a href="https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1733259919430672619?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Promising bullpen guy seems really goddamned generous description of Robertson. You could probably put the population of your average Santo Domingo restaurant inside a huge claw machine and randomly pick out someone as talented as Santos.

If that's all you're getting there is no point to trade him.

Robertson's stuff checks out; scouting report looks solid. Mid-90s fastball with life; good breaking pitch. Might actually be something there.

I wouldn't have bothered with the bus fare for Santos, OTOH.

But that's how Mozeliak drives a hard bargain.

"We want Houck"
"We'll give you Robertson"
"Nah, I need more than that"
{Boston GM throws dart} -- "How about Victor Santana...I mean, Santos. Yeah, that's the guy. You'll love him."
"SOLD!"

This is why Mozeliak always has these deals with 3 fringe guys instead of a good one. He doesn't know who's worth a shit. So more is better; it's a chance to get lucky. Then when he stumbles ass backwards into a Genesis Cabrera or Juan Yepez, he pisses away their value, holds them too long and dumps them for scraps.

He's just really shitty at his job.

MLB Trade value
https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/153997