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-   -   Chiefs Report: Chiefs and OBJ have "mutual interest" (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=352770)

BWillie 03-17-2024 07:24 PM

Mike Williams as hes a better red zone threat by obj still pretty good down there despite his size

TEX 03-17-2024 07:26 PM

Why?

Pitt Gorilla 03-17-2024 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 17448050)
Nope. I'd rather have Watson because the 5th option in the passing game needs to play special teams. Watson can actually threaten a defense deep too. He's an incredibly versatile roster piece.

OBJ probably just break himself again.

I think that's where I am as well. Heck, I'm not against bringing Hardman back on a vet min deal, either.

Megatron96 03-17-2024 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4th and Long (Post 17448055)
I'll swap highlight videos with you, just for fun. :p

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BzUo5jCp-bI?si=-fY9Qg-EZ425Mgda" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Oh boy. You think that compares favorably with OBJ?

Yikes.

Pasta Little Brioni 03-17-2024 07:32 PM

Lulz he isn't taking some "discount"

4th and Long 03-17-2024 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17448067)
Oh boy. You think that compares favorably with OBJ?

Yikes.

What part of "just for fun" and " :p " didn't you get? Lighten up a little. :)

-King- 03-17-2024 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX (Post 17448060)
Why?

If Veach is interested it's likely because he wants to ensure that no way last year happens again and is going to throw numbers at the position to make sure it doesn't. At worst, OBJ is just a solid WR. If we don't get a top 2 round WR this draft, a Rice, Brown, and OBJ combo as your 3 WRs is still ****ing great. If OBJ is your worst WR that gets a lot of snaps, then you have a really good corp.

Megatron96 03-17-2024 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4th and Long (Post 17448075)
What part of "just for fun" and " :p " didn't you get? Lighten up a little. :)



Ah, now it makes sense. You got me, my bad.:thumb:

FringeNC 03-17-2024 07:41 PM

https://heavy.com/sports/baltimore-r...ll-beckham-jr/

"Beckham was supposed to be Baltimore’s WR1, but he was outplayed by rookie Zay Flowers. OBJ struggled to establish a rapport with Lamar Jackson, snagging just 35 of the franchise quarterback’s passes from 64 targets.

Targeting Beckham was a problem because he struggled to consistently gain separation. The wideout won on just 43.6 percent of his routes, including a modest 34.7 percent win rate against man coverage, according to Player Profiler."

jerryaldini 03-17-2024 07:41 PM

That same account is now saying Chiefs have interest in Quez Watkins.

Pasta Little Brioni 03-17-2024 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 17448089)
https://heavy.com/sports/baltimore-r...ll-beckham-jr/

"Beckham was supposed to be Baltimore’s WR1, but he was outplayed by rookie Zay Flowers. OBJ struggled to establish a rapport with Lamar Jackson, snagging just 35 of the franchise quarterback’s passes from 64 targets.

Targeting Beckham was a problem because he struggled to consistently gain separation. The wideout won on just 43.6 percent of his routes, including a modest 34.7 percent win rate against man coverage, according to Player Profiler."

Oof...that is awful

ThaVirus 03-17-2024 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebedee DuBois (Post 17447908)
I am too old to understand the hip lingo these youngsters use these days, but I believe he was saying that he enjoyed his time in Baltimore, and wished they could have had more success together. He loved the city and his teammates and he will always look fondly upon his time together with them.

Come on, man. He even gave you context clues.

ThaVirus 03-17-2024 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerryaldini (Post 17448090)
That same account is now saying Chiefs have interest in Quez Watkins.

Quez has a ton of speed and shouldn’t cost much.

srvy 03-17-2024 08:26 PM

As usual, if Veach signs him it's the greatest move ever. See you in New Orleans!

If we don't he is washed didn't need him TY Veach for dodging this 50 caliber bullet. We don't need this smelly steaming turd. See you in New Orleans!

BossChief 03-17-2024 08:35 PM

OCity may get his wish a few years late.

O.city 03-17-2024 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 17448146)
OCity may get his wish a few years late.

Yikes

He’s old and slowed

CatinKS 03-17-2024 08:51 PM

PUNT!!!!

dlphg9 03-17-2024 09:03 PM

I'd easily take him, but it has to be cheap. Good thing Veach is who he is and won't over spend like other stupid teams.

Rainbarrel 03-17-2024 09:06 PM

OBJ connected to the Chiefs happens every year before the Chargers are crowned kings of the off-season. The script is repeating itself

Megatron96 03-17-2024 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlphg9 (Post 17448159)
I'd easily take him, but it has to be cheap. Good thing Veach is who he is and won't over spend like other stupid teams.



Well yeah. That's why I doubt we get him. He's always taken the most $$$, afaik. But if we did get him, it'd be a lot better than relying on JWat/Moore/Toney and the like.


Also, just to have a real NFL WR, one that was once a top-5 guy, would do wonders for Rice and whichever rookie WR we draft. Hell, maybe he could help fix Toney.

Pitt Gorilla 03-17-2024 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerryaldini (Post 17448090)
That same account is now saying Chiefs have interest in Quez Watkins.

I don't hate Quez at all. Him or Hardman for more speed.

RINGLEADER 03-17-2024 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17447952)
Man, wouldn't it be nice. Not a fan of OBJ's personality (or his dad's), but he can still play at a high level. Go get him, Veach.

From everything I saw last season his me-first attitude seems to have disappeared, though I have to admit I didn’t follow the Ravens that closely. He only caught around 55% of his targets last season though his QB was Lamar Jackson.

RINGLEADER 03-17-2024 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 17448050)
Nope. I'd rather have Watson because the 5th option in the passing game needs to play special teams. Watson can actually threaten a defense deep too. He's an incredibly versatile roster piece.

OBJ probably just break himself again.

I agree with this but would also be okay with OBJ on a vet minimum deal with incentives.

Megatron96 03-17-2024 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RINGLEADER (Post 17448171)
From everything I saw last season his me-first attitude seems to have disappeared, though I have to admit I didn’t follow the Ravens that closely. He only caught around 55% of his targets last season though his QB was Lamar Jackson.


Yeah, I didn't watch but maybe 2 BAL games last year, I think. no, I watched 4. One of my best friends is a Ravens guy so I watched a couple with him, though I probably paid more attention to my Makers and the cute bartender than I did the games at times.


But he did make a few nice plays that I noticed in those games. A couple are in that clip I posted. Also watched Lamar flat miss OBJ more than once. But Lamar misses everybody more than once, so . . .

Biggest thing you noticed if you paid attention to him is that he's a real fully functional NFL WR. He's a complete package, though he doesn't have long speed anymore. But in short/intermediate areas he's still pretty good. And he still has his hands and he's still fearless over the middle.


But mostly I'm thinking about all he could teach our young WRs. I'm serious about the idea that he could be the key to making Toney functional.

arrowheadnation 03-17-2024 11:15 PM

The Swifties may riot in the streets if this happens. OBJ is currently dating #2 on their top ten biggest enemies list (behind her ex-husband).

gordonelloyd 03-17-2024 11:32 PM

Only way we should take OBJ is on a minimum vet contract, I guess with incentives. But I doubt he will play for that. It was amazing how much he soaked the Baltimore ravens for last year.

Are people serious thinking that he could actually mentor Toney. We have to get rid of that cancer.

MAHOMO 4 LIFE! 03-18-2024 12:14 AM

It’s official guys…. AB has called a lot of stuff before anybody else

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sources: BREAKING NEWS <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CTESPN?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CTESPN</a><br><br>Kansas City Chiefs and Odell Beckham Jr have agreed to a one year deal <a href="https://t.co/i0ZfbAJO9Y">pic.twitter.com/i0ZfbAJO9Y</a></p>&mdash; CTESPNNetwork (@CtespnN) <a href="https://twitter.com/CtespnN/status/1769590142107263343?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

bobhill 03-18-2024 01:45 AM

I'm calling Shanahanagins on cte network

Rasputin 03-18-2024 01:56 AM

OBJ is a rich mans Kadarius Toney

Danguardace 03-18-2024 02:02 AM

Prefer Mike Williams

rico 03-18-2024 02:47 AM

Would love to see what this dude could do with the GOAT as his QB! Sign him!

RaidersOftheCellar 03-18-2024 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bl00dyBizkitz (Post 17447919)
I haven't looked at the numbers, but this guy seems like an older MVS at this point. Yeah, he'd be a vet leader and basically WR3/4 to fill out the roster.

More like an older Tyreek.

Still explosive and he can still get wide open. All for it.

Kelce
Hollywood
Rice
Beckham
Worthy
Watson
Ross/Toney

Make it happen, Bart!

arrowheadnation 03-18-2024 04:24 AM

I’m tellin ya this won’t work. We can’t have TSwift and Kim Kardashian in arrowhead at the same time. The distraction would be unbearable. The space time continuum might implode.

ThyKingdomCome15 03-18-2024 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE! (Post 17448226)
It’s official guys…. AB has called a lot of stuff before anybody else

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sources: BREAKING NEWS <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CTESPN?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CTESPN</a><br><br>Kansas City Chiefs and Odell Beckham Jr have agreed to a one year deal <a href="https://t.co/i0ZfbAJO9Y">pic.twitter.com/i0ZfbAJO9Y</a></p>&mdash; CTESPNNetwork (@CtespnN) <a href="https://twitter.com/CtespnN/status/1769590142107263343?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

There's something about Antonio Brown having the inside scoop that's troubling.

Mosbonian 03-18-2024 04:41 AM

Not really a big fan of signing OBJ....hoping this isn't true.

Rausch 03-18-2024 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosbonian (Post 17448254)
Not really a big fan of signing OBJ....hoping this isn't true.

His ability to come down with the football in traffic is coveted.

The remainder of his greatly diminished skills are not...

farmerchief 03-18-2024 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordonelloyd (Post 17448217)

Are people serious thinking that he could actually mentor Toney. We have to get rid of that cancer.

Well, after trying to understand his farewell message to the Ravens, he and Toney speak the same language, so they would understand each other.

KobesPilot 03-18-2024 06:00 AM

As much as I dislike his character, I want to see Mahomes comfortable in the pocket with WRs he can trust. If they can consistently get open, I know Mahomes will deliver. I miss seeing those deep ass passes where the ball would just sink right into their hands as if it was being reeled in by them. That's the shit that boosts morale on offense and keeps momentum going or completely shifts it into our favor. We have a QB who's going to go down as one of the best in history. Just get this man the receivers he deserves..

Fishels 03-18-2024 06:22 AM

Needs to be a very cheap deal.

kccrow 03-18-2024 06:28 AM

I'm not excited about it unless I hear it is at or under Hollywood's offer. 5m up to 7m with incentives would be about the max I'd want to see for him at this stage.

RealSNR 03-18-2024 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KobesPilot (Post 17448273)
As much as I dislike his character, I want to see Mahomes comfortable in the pocket with WRs he can trust. If they can consistently get open, I know Mahomes will deliver. I miss seeing those deep ass passes where the ball would just sink right into their hands as if it was being reeled in by them. That's the shit that boosts morale on offense and keeps momentum going or completely shifts it into our favor. We have a QB who's going to go down as one of the best in history. Just get this man the receivers he deserves..


Winning two Super Bowls in a row also tends to boost morale on offense

Wisconsin_Chief 03-18-2024 06:49 AM

TMZ reported this earlier as well. Although I do question OBJ’s motivation for wanting to come here, if he’s taking a cheap deal I am all for it. I believe he just wants to be here for the exposure more than anything, since we’ve basically become the Hollywood of the NFL.

He wants to be playing in prime time 10 nights a year catching passes from the face of the league. I just hope he stays motivated. He seemed to have turned a corner last year in Baltimore understanding his role and being a leader. Hopefully he continues that if he lands here.

BlackHelicopters 03-18-2024 06:51 AM

Thank you. No.

BigBeauford 03-18-2024 06:54 AM

Sure why the **** not. Absolutely no chance he's not our 3rd best WR immediately, Watson can be our 4 and who gives a shit about the rest. Maybe give Ross another year in the oven.

chiefzilla1501 03-18-2024 07:04 AM

Not a huge fan. His attitude seems better knowing that he doesn't have leverage anymore. But mahomes needs a consistent target who will always be where he needs to be. After last year we don't need another guy who freelances a bit. If we're going for an injury prone guy I'm going with Mike Williams. But most likely we just deal with it in the draft

Chiefnj2 03-18-2024 07:17 AM

If KC is going to sign an over the hill ring chaser for a one year deal, they should sign Bakhtiari and not OBJ.

jjchieffan 03-18-2024 07:18 AM

Since we've got Brown now, I don't expect to add another free agent receiver until after the draft. Then, I think that Veach will add someone willing to sign cheap. There are still plenty of good options available that would help boost our receiver corps. OBJ and Williams are the top 2 and unless they come cheap to chase a ring, I don't see either landing here. But that still leaves Thomas, Chark, Robinson and even MVS on a much cheaper deal. I wouldn't take any of them on an expensive deal to be our 1 or 2. But I would certainly take them to push Toney and Moore down or even off the roster. I expect to see one or both of them traded for a seventh round pick at some point

-King- 03-18-2024 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 17448301)
If KC is going to sign an over the hill ring chaser for a one year deal, they should sign Bakhtiari and not OBJ.

One of them is still physically able to play football

nychief 03-18-2024 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 17448301)
If KC is going to sign an over the hill ring chaser for a one year deal, they should sign Bakhtiari and not OBJ.



Guys...Bakhtiari is done... say it with me.

TLO 03-18-2024 07:33 AM

REPORT

Lzen 03-18-2024 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4th and Long (Post 17448055)
I'll swap highlight videos with you, just for fun. :p

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BzUo5jCp-bI?si=-fY9Qg-EZ425Mgda" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That was some good stuff. I guess I didn't realize how much he contributed. That play in the Raiders game at 11:45 illustrates how their coach is gonna have them playing overly physical and, in this case, dirty. That was a cheap shot the LB did on Watson while running his route. And I love how Justin let him know it after catching the TD. Dirty, cheap shot Raiders. Some things never change.

Bwana 03-18-2024 07:57 AM

I wouldn't be thrilled about this move. If you do it, vet minimum, or hard pass.

Hammock Parties 03-18-2024 08:12 AM

CTESPN is the only one reporting this LMAO

ChiefsCountry 03-18-2024 08:26 AM

Since Mouthbreather Magic wants this, you know we should pass on it.

displacedinMN 03-18-2024 08:28 AM

i get why he wants to come here.

I am just conflicted.

wazu 03-18-2024 08:34 AM

Meh. I can't imagine OBJ would sign for any contract that is low-dollar enough for me to like it. My perfect world we would have a rookie at our WR3 spot this year developing and emerging to replace Hollywood in 2025. So in that world OBJ would be WR4 and that seems unrealistic. If we have money burning a hole in our pocket go bring back Donovan Smith instead.

Chief Pote 03-18-2024 08:36 AM

Vet minimum? Or something close?

Chris Meck 03-18-2024 08:44 AM

This is a move you make if you're the Jets, with a 40 year old Aaron Rodgers.

We don't need to go nuts for a one year push.

We need a #3 type WR, and a draft that's LOADED in WR's.

Just draft a guy.

Hoover 03-18-2024 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazu (Post 17448385)
Meh. I can't imagine OBJ would sign for any contract that is low-dollar enough for me to like it. My perfect world we would have a rookie at our WR3 spot this year developing and emerging to replace Hollywood in 2025. So in that world OBJ would be WR4 and that seems unrealistic. If we have money burning a hole in our pocket go bring back Donovan Smith instead.

OBJ is probably at the point in his career that he is more concerned about finding a good fit than maximizing his earnings. He was a great fit in LA with McVay, I think KC would utilize him well. And the only reason why WC is a willing partner is because they don't trust Moore and Toney, who even with Brown in house, are just one injury away from seeing significant playing time. And there is also the fact that I don't believe the Chiefs are going to give Brown 100+ targets.

My preference is to still draft and develop a WR from the draft, but it is becoming crystal clear that the Chiefs are in the Hunt for a LT high in the draft, which changes things a bit from the free agency perspective. I expect OBJ to be a 5M guy pus some incentives that he won't hit.

RaidersOftheCellar 03-18-2024 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazu (Post 17448385)
Meh. I can't imagine OBJ would sign for any contract that is low-dollar enough for me to like it. My perfect world we would have a rookie at our WR3 spot this year developing and emerging to replace Hollywood in 2025. So in that world OBJ would be WR4 and that seems unrealistic. If we have money burning a hole in our pocket go bring back Donovan Smith instead.

Hollywood Brown just signed a very reasonable deal to be here. Jones refused to leave. Sneed is trying to stay, despite plenty of suitors.

People need to realize that being part of a three-peat (and catching passes from Mahomes) is pretty enticing to these guys. Especially ring chasers near the end of their careers.

493rd 03-18-2024 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 17448394)
This is a move you make if you're the Jets, with a 40 year old Aaron Rodgers.

We don't need to go nuts for a one year push.

We need a #3 type WR, and a draft that's LOADED in WR's.

Just draft a guy.

Agreed. In addition, OBJ brings additional non-football baggage that the Chiefs just don’t need. Also, I’m not giving up on Skyy Moore yet. If he steps up this year and contributes with 500 yards and 3-4 TDs that would be huge. Rice, Kelce, Brown, Moore, Hardman, Irv Smith, Watson. And you add at least one more in the draft. We don’t need OBJ.

alpha_omega 03-18-2024 08:49 AM

I've thought about this a bit since yesterday and I hate it even more now.

Stay away from OBJ.

RaidersOftheCellar 03-18-2024 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 17448394)
This is a move you make if you're the Jets, with a 40 year old Aaron Rodgers.

We don't need to go nuts for a one year push.

We need a #3 type WR, and a draft that's LOADED in WR's.

Just draft a guy.

We have no idea what kind of deal Veach can pull off here. And we all know that a rookie is far from guaranteed to produce in Reid's offense, especially in the first half of the year.

I'd love to see a 1-year "threepeat discount" deal for Beckham.

ForeverIowan 03-18-2024 08:50 AM

If Veach/Reid went this route and signed another veteran wide receiver it makes ZERO sense to draft a receiver in the first/second round this year. They arent going to develop sitting behind Kelce/Rice/Hollywood/OBJ in targets. If you sign OBJ, I think you are packaging your 1st and 2nd rounder to go grab a franchise left tackle.

Hoover 03-18-2024 08:53 AM

WE ARE NOT DRAFTING A WR IN THE FIRST ROUND

Our current LT is Wanya Morris. Yikes!

Jerm 03-18-2024 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover (Post 17448408)
WE ARE NOT DRAFTING A WR IN THE FIRST ROUND

Our current LT is Wanya Morris. Yikes!

So let's bring in a rookie that's probably the 4th or 5th option in this class and expect him to be better....gotcha.

TNTEICHER 03-18-2024 08:57 AM

hmmm. I bet he isn't really interested in the $$$$$ the Chiefs would offer. He took the best 1 year deal he could find last year. Don't know why that would have changed.

RunKC 03-18-2024 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerm (Post 17448411)
So let's bring in a rookie that's probably the 4th or 5th option in this class and expect him to be better....gotcha.

Could say the same thing about WR no?

And yeah Andy probably isn’t drafting a WR rd 1. Doesn’t fit his philosophy

BigBeauford 03-18-2024 08:58 AM

This is likely his final season. He would be smart to join the Chiefs to give his brand a big boost heading into his post-football career.

IowaHawkeyeChief 03-18-2024 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover (Post 17448408)
WE ARE NOT DRAFTING A WR IN THE FIRST ROUND

Our current LT is Wanya Morris. Yikes!

We very well could. Donovan Smith is available and we are probably talking with him. I am fine taking a tackle in the 1st, but at 32 it will be tough to get quality. If we do draft a tackle, we probably trade up to get one that's fallen. It will be interesting as we are in really good shape and can let the board fall to us.

Jerm 03-18-2024 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17448413)
Could say the same thing about WR no?

And yeah Andy probably isn’t drafting a WR rd 1. Doesn’t fit his philosophy

Well the difference to me is you're not asking the rookie WR to come in and be the #1 option or even the 2nd like you might be with LT.

Also, I think the 4th,5th, or 6th best WR in this class will improve this team more than the same spot at LT.

Hoover 03-18-2024 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerm (Post 17448411)
So let's bring in a rookie that's probably the 4th or 5th option in this class and expect him to be better....gotcha.

I'm all for a 2nd round WR. Things also get a little easier if you trade Sneed.

But adding OBJ wouldn't be nearly as bad as some people here are making it out to be.

nychief 03-18-2024 09:03 AM

isn't OBJ a post june 1st cut?

BigRedChief 03-18-2024 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainbarrel (Post 17448036)
Getting kicked off planes sounds like something Bills fans could get behind. They're not really interested in Lombardis any way. Just the things they could do with the champagne corks

I watched the footage or part of the footage, the dude was such an entitled asshole.

I think between Mahomes/Kelce/Jones/Reid they can control the locker room where he is not a distraction and if they cant, no big deal, just cut him. Because I'm assuming, its a cheap deal. If not, **** that guy.

scho63 03-18-2024 09:26 AM

May be a low risk Sammy Watkins, Kadarious Toney type signing.

Mike Williams or Michael Thomas would be similar signings.

Not great, not horrible.

In58men 03-18-2024 09:40 AM

Hunter Renfrow please

KCJake 03-18-2024 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmh6476 (Post 17447898)
I think I'd rather try to kick the tires on Michael Thomas

Yep I agree. Thomas would be cheaper too I'd think

Marcellus 03-18-2024 09:42 AM

If he is cheap enough why not? WR3 or WR4 option?

In58men 03-18-2024 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCJake (Post 17448459)
Yep I agree. Thomas would be cheaper too I'd think

Fun fact: he has the same birthday as my wife. Thomas to KC confirmed

kccrow 03-18-2024 09:52 AM

Michael Thomas has had ankle/foot injuries for years now and then suffered a knee injury last year. The guy is pretty much cooked. Hard pass.


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