Yep, 100%.

We all end up wrong about some, right about some. It's bullshit for someone to come in and mock anyone when he doesn't put his thoughts and predictions out there.

Hell, I thought for sure Veach was going to trade way the **** up for a top-10 edge talent. I also thought there was no way in hell Johnson and Karlaftis would be around near our picks. I thought no way he'd take a smashmouth LB like Chenal even as good as he is. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. LOL. I'm happy as shit I was wrong.

Following this sub the few months leading up to the draft definitely makes the draft more fun. Going to be nuts being at the actual draft next year!

Hoping for the best, that's all I got.

Yeah, I was definitely wrong! LOL

I thought we were done with short WRs which I was all for. I took Moore off my list very early and didnt really look at him much.

I can see what the Chiefs liked about him, he is quick and sudden. Seems to get open quickly and often. Great hands and has good long speed too. Not Tyreek long speed but very comparable on everything else.

Tracking the deep balls. He offers a lot of what Tyreek did for us and is more polished right now than Tyreek was coming out.

Saw a comparison to AB, thats pretty damn good!

Bottom line, the Chiefs passed on some of the guys I wanted to take Moore and thats good enough for me!

Also, James Jones thought he was the best WR in this class. A few guys on NFLN said he is a #1 WR.

The most important things in the NFL are always going to be can he stay healthy, can he get open, and can he reliably catch the football. Moore checks those boxes better than most WRs in the class. The other guys that did that went in the top 16. I'm pretty stoked about Moore, honestly.

13th WR off the board (not the same 12 ahead of him that I had, but exactly where I had him nonetheless).

No - he's not the best WR in this class. And the odds of him being a 1 are EXTREMELY long.

He'll probably be a fine player. But this fits with the floor over ceiling, immediate production over long-term potential theme of this draft.

Athletically he profiles to De'Anthony Thomas. And nobody will want to acknowledge that fact and will still insist on trying to compare him to Tyreek Hill for some reason. But in reality, he's a slightly more experienced, slightly more polished version of De'Anthony Thomas.

{shrug} Still don't get it.

This is where some of the old school anti analytic stuff for me comes in. There's more to this than "athletic profile". I understand you get into outliers at that point and guys have to meet a certain baseline, but we had this with Bolton last year.

Athletically testing wise, he's not what you would think there.

Is there a chance Moore is that at WR?

Wow dude. I don’t see why you don’t like him. And I’m not homering out bc he’s on our team. You know I’ve liked this guy for about 6 weeks.

I’d compare his athletic profile to Albert Wilson. He’s not as good laterally but he’s much better straight line with explosiveness.

I’m so sick and tired of us drafting these athletes that can’t play football. I’m tired of seeing Albert Wilson drop a lot of passes he should catch, I’m tired of watching Chris Conley and Byron Pringle struggle to beat DB’s bc they can’t sell routes and I’m definitely tired of Mecole Hardman not being about to run routes, make tough catches or win 1v1.

I’ve been begging this team to get a pure route runner who can catch. Begging! Bc if we’ve learned anything it’s that this teams athleticism means dick. Tyreek and Kelce are good bc they are elite athletes and do the little things like running routes/catching the ball well.

This kid has enormous hands which showed 3 drops on 125 targets. He’s got well above average speed at 4.41. His 10 yard is absolutely insane at 1.46 and he has long arms.

Guys. This team needs a Hunter Renfrow or Cooper Kupp badly. Renfrow had 1k yards and 9 TD’s last year with Carr ina year that Waller missed time, Agholor was gone and Ruggs got kicked off the team.

This kid can give us that. He’s a lot better than Renfrow but not at Cupp’s level. I’d say he’s somewhere in between the two.

And at 54 that’s some damn good value

The issue theoretically is, you have to meet a certain baseline level of athleticism. Hill and Kelce are what they are because of the littel things, but they're also elite athletes which gives them something to fall back on.

You’re right but he has excellent athleticism.

4.41 is pretty damn fast. It’s not blazing but it’s fast. His 10 yard and 20 yard times are faster than Garrett Wilson, the top WR most analysts had on their board.

This team tried to get Emmanuel Sanders back then and his 40 time was the exact same 4.41. His 10 yard was amazing but actually slightly slower than Moore’s.

For reference, DK Metcalf had a 1.45 10 yard split which was the best since they logged the combine. Skyy Moore’s was 1.46.

There’s a reason this kid is really good against press. He’s sudden and his acceleration is elite. Tyreek Hill is explosive as hell. His 10 yard time was 1.50, slower than this kids.

I don't care if Hill's time is double Moore's, he's not at that level and I don't think using Hill as any kind of an example, matters.

Even money says he doesn't turn out better than Renfrow.

And Renfrow went in the 5th. I should goddamn hope he's better than him.

Again, guys like Moore go in the 3rd round every year. It's not 'good value' to take this kid at 54. And when you cite a guy like Renfrow, you establish exactly why. And again, this is the EXACT same thing people did when we took De'Anthony Thomas and people said "We need a Darren Sproles!" while ignoring that Sproles went in the 4th because most people with that kind of profile don't become anything approaching that kind of player.

In any other draft a slot receiver w/ good hands but no size and a limited athletic ceiling is a 3rd or 4th round pick. In this draft he SHOULD'VE been. 13 WRs going by pick 54 is ludicrous.

I don't like the pick because he didn't suddenly become larger or more dynamic. He's a safe pick who's not going to solve many problems for us. He's probably WR4 this year and if we continue to dedicate resources to the WR room going forward he probably caps at WR3.

That's not a bad return for a 2nd rounder, but there's just so little ceiling here and that's pretty much how we treated 2/3 of the picks in this draft.

Yeah - he's playing in the MAC.

Go ahead and cite Tyreek Hill's 10 yard split as demonstrative of Moore's explosion if you want. I'm going to say it's more demonstrative of the value of the statistic.

In no world, and in no way, is Moore anywhere approaching the athlete Tyreek Hill was. If you have a stopwatch that is telling you otherwise, the problem is the stopwatch or what you're measuring.

And again - De'Anthony Thomas: 4.34. With a better shuttle and significantly better 3-cone. Similarly poor broad, similarly poor vert. His athletic profile is EXTREMELY similar to De'Anthony Thomas. And I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see him used similarly in the passing game. And I hated how we used Thomas.

He's more explosive off the line than Antonio Brown (who also played in the MAC) and otherwise relatively similar traits across the board. There isn't one mother****er on this board that wouldn't have taken Antonio Brown before he went nuts.

I'm not worried a bit about the athleticism. Not even a little.

Gripping awfully tight when we're citing the one measurable he excelled in that also happens to say he's better than Antonio Brown and Tyreek Hill.

Okay. I'm sure that's how it's gonna play out.

I'm not clinging to the one stat. I'm pointing out the stupidity of 1) continually citing that he played in the ... oh my God, wait for it... MAC! when Antonio did too and 2) continually citing things like his size and athleticism when he's just as athletic as Antonio and similarly sized.

Neither of the points being presented, MAC competition or athleticism, are valid precursors to him sucking ass.

Do you know what IS a historical precursor to sucking ass, yet you keep banging Calvin Austin's drum? Being under 5'9" as a WR. And I don't even think Austin is going to suck ass, I think he'll be a quality slot receiver in the NFL if not better.

I honestly don't know why it is you don't like the kid, but there's nothing that shows up that I see as valid that says he's just going to suck.

Again though, if he had the measurables you'd ideally want at WR even at his height, he's going in the first round right?

Brown is more outlier and went way later in the draft. I believe DJ's argument is more about the value of it than anything, but I don't wanna speak for him.

If he ran as fast as Tyreek, like everyone seemingly wants him to have given his size, he'd have been the first WR off the board. Not even close. If he did that and was 2-3 inches taller, he probably would be a top 5 pick. This is so silly to me.

Meh... even that doesn't even matter. His comp is continually Golden Tate who went at pick #60, played 11 years in the league, and had over 8,000 career yards, including a few 1k seasons.

Even if that is all he ever is, it was a great pick If you were told Tate were his floor and Brown were his ceiling, you'd be pretty happy I'd think.

I didn’t say he’s going to suck.

I said he’ll be a fine player in a limited role. Y’all are the ones saying he’s more explosive than Tyreek Hill and could be Antonio Brown.

I said he’s a third round talent pushed up by need in this draft class. You guys are saying he’s a potential #1 guy.

Quit trying to have the argument you want to have.

My argument is we’re heading down Frank Clark road where folks said he was a potential DPOY and knocking down straw men before they started making excuses for him when he looked to be exactly the sort of overpay I thought he was.

Fair enough, if that's what you think. The third round feels a little far-fetched given how he profiles. He definitely looks closer to a #1 than a limited role player. Now, Mecole Hardman, he's a guy that looked like a limited role player that was pushed up into the 2nd and should have been a 3rd because of his shortcomings as a route runner and somewhat suspect hands. That's not the case with this kid.

That’s the problem though. The Chiefs draft these high ceiling insane athletes like Chris Conley and Mecole Hardman and they amount to total shit bc they have no idea how to actually play football. It was the same way with DeAnthony Thomas and Albert Wilson. We drafted returners with amazing athleticism and are shocked they can’t sell routes well. Only Tyreek Hill worked and a large part of that was him getting really good at his mechanics.

Having elite speed in this league is nothing if you can’t play football. Go ahead and look at guys from Darius Heyward-Bey to John Ross to Mecole Hardman. Everyone is fast. Everyone.

Kelce and Tyreek win bc of their speed and their mechanics. Their routes are sold very well, their hands are good and their smarts are open zones. That’s probably why Kelce can be an effective player for 3 more years if he wants.

That’s why I wasn’t a big fan of George Pickens. Im tired of athletes with size who have to be taught how to play the game.

Im telling you this kid is gonna be awesome this year. He’s gonna be used just like Albert Wilson. Outside and in the slot. You’re gonna love him by mid season.

Tate's not his floor.

Albert Wilson is. Maybe.

Tate is FAR closer to his ceiling and again, citing Antonio Brown is the same thing people do when they call very 6 ft tall righty who throws 90 Greg Maddux.

By that logic, just about everyone drafted this week has a ceiling somewhere between Antonio Brown and Julio Jones. It dilutes the analysis to the point that it is worthless.

Wanna call Golden Tate or Tyler Lockett his ceiling and I'll listen. But to cite one of the NFL's all-time outliers and say "he can be X!" just doesn't accomplish anything.

This is going to be a polarizing pick for years to come.

The Chiefs got 700 yards out of Mecole Hardman and the fans hate him.

The Chiefs will get 700 yards out of Skyy Moore and the fans will love him to death for it.

That's how this will go.

Skyy Moore will produce no matter what because it's what Andy Reid and Mahomes do.

Y'know that's how we got Travis Kelce, right?

That's how we'll have to get ANY elite player we end up with over the coming decade.

And ultimately maybe the next year or two is when we'll find some of those at WR and Moore is a complementary player long-term. Again - that's fine. Many 2nd rounders give you nothing precisely because teams focus on ceiling over floor. And I don't think it's a good idea to focus exclusively on one or the other.

I simply don't see how an undersized WR with quality of competition concerns who also doesn't have an elite athletic profile is some exceptionally high floor kid, especially not when taken in the 2nd round.

This is where I kinda land. I think he'll be a good player. Mecole is a good player.

They play for Andy and with Mahomes. If you aren't a moron and have a baseline of athleticism and hands, you'll be a good WR for them.

Neither are likely go be Tyreek 2.0. But you traded him because you ddin't wanna pay what he wanted.

So it is what it is.

Yup.

Because we're headed down Frank Clark road.

If Moore gets 60 receptions for 700 yards, the handjobs will be wet and frequent. Because somehow running quick hitters underneath zones is not a 'gadget player' whereas anything Hardman does will be.

And when he gets that 60 receptions for 700 yards, I'll get called out because I'm a hater when in fact I think that's probably a pretty reasonable prediction.

If we're wanting to get away from the "stars and scrubs" method everyone hates, isn't this the way to do it? I mean, if we wanna take swings at high upside athletes, the majority aren't gonna hit. Which, fine, that's how you get Tyreek and Kelce.

But you're also gonna end up barren in some spots.

I'd be surprised if Pickens isn't a good player, btw.

Look no further than who drafted him. Pittsburgh might be the best team in the league at identifying WR talent.

They pretty much shit WR's. I can't remember a time, going back to my childhood, in which they didn't have talented WR's.

The fact that they took Pickens and Austin tells me i was probably right about those guys. We'll see.

****ing Steelers, man. We got a WR off them that i didn't want, and then they went and drafted two guys i woulda loved on this team. FML.

He's a 2nd rounder. What's teh expectation there? Most aren't gonna turn into #1 WR's. Hell if you hit and he turns into Tyler Lockett, that's great.

That's exactly it.

They are in QB purgatory. The days of churning out WR's are probably over.

Mecole got 700 yards as a schemed player taking shovel passes for TD’s. He also had the benefit of being on a team with prime Tyreek and Kelce, not to mention some games with Sammy. That makes life so much easier when you’re facing the 3rd corner 1v1 in schemed plays.

Skyy won’t get that luxury. Tyreek and Sammy are gone and Kelce is entering his declining years. It’s a different world for him. So yeah 700 yards would be more impressive given the circumstances.

It also says a lot that the Chiefs brass pretty much shit all over Mecole without saying his name after drafting this kid to replace him.

I think you've gotta do both.

And with McDuffie, Karlaftis, Moore, Cooks and Williams (who cares about 7th rounders?) I think we focused almost entirely on the floor over the ceiling.

That's just too heavily tilted in that direction. That's the most draft capital we've had in decades and the VAST majority of it went to 'safe' picks.

I think the 2008 draft class is probably the most comparable we've had in terms of capital.

And with that class we took a few safe picks (Dorsey, Flowers, Morgan) and a few more aggressive ones (Albert, Charles, Cottam, Carr)

And we scattered them throughout. Here we took all safe picks early with a couple of higher upside ones late. Even the aggressive swings we took on Chenal and Dennard aren't really that aggressive, those are high floor guys who ALSO have high ceilings.

Just seems like we overcorrected a hair. I'd have like to have a seen a few more balls/bust picks in there. A Drake Jackson sort, Jalen Tolbert. And mix in the McDuffie over Gordon pick or the Karlaftis over Ebiketie. That's cool - I understand the need for floor.

I just think we went too hard in that direction.

C’mon guys. How many yards and TD’s from Mecole were quick tosses tosses or jet sweeps behind the LOS? We could have had a day 3 pick like DAT do this shit.

Are we really doing this this? LMAO

It starts....

We're in a different spot now though. You've got a force multiplier at QB. So those floors are gonna automatically be raised by that.

I get it on defense, but we've also talked about defense being more sum than individual parts.

I understand where you're coming from philosophically, but they're also in a spot where depth matters more simply because they've already got the high end guys.

They need the next age of high end guys, but they'll have to develop them.

We just took a day 3 pick like DAT in the 2nd round.

Just like we took DAT in the 2nd round.

History repeats itself.

But I'm sure the 5'9'' dude with the sub-standard 3-cone time is just gonna go out there wrecking man coverage and won't have to be schemed into space.

Like I said - Frank Clark road. We're gonna keep watering down expectations. Literally an hour ago he was possibly the best WR in the class and a future #1. Now 700 yards is cool.

Seen this movie many many times.

The lame excuses and bullshit have already started and it's only been a few days.

LMAO

Beat me to it.

60 for 700 would be phenomenal as a rookie because it would far exceed what you get from most 2nd round receivers. :P

If he's doing that in his 3rd year, then that might not be where you want him to be but it's still on par with what you'd expect from a late 2nd round WR.

As a prospect, he's insanely more polished than Mecole Hardman in every conceivable way. Based on the skills he brings to the table, he not only has a pretty high floor but the ceiling is also pretty high too. Because of that, I expect more from him than Mecole and I look to the fact that it has been done by similar players, with similar traits, even from the same conference. Guys like Tyler Lockett, Golden Tate, and Antonio Brown give me that confidence in him.

If he does only reach that 60 for 700 plateau? I can't say I'll be disappointed. That's more than reasonable production from his draft slot, regardless of how Alec Pierce, Tyquan Thornton, and George Pickens turn out. That's precisely why I don't bag on Mecole Hardman like so many around here do. He's an adequate receiver for where he was drafted. There were others I liked more and thought had better upside but that doesn't make Mecole a bad player.

We talked about not spending money on WR's now (as they didn't with Hill) because Mahomes makes money and they need him to make good WR's better.

Well, this seems like the ideal situation. You've got a high floor guy. Raise his floor Patrick.

I don't disagree.

60/700 wouldn't be disappointing. If he's out there at 45/500 though, that's an issue. If only because I believe immediate productivity and a shorter learning curve is what drove the pick. And if he comes out of the chute with that production, that doesn't speak well to his long-term prognosis.

Honestly, even 60/700 suggests he's not much more than a WR3 long-term, though. I don't see hardly any projection in the kid. But again - it's a second round pick. You get legit WR3 production for 4 years from him and it's a clear win.

Whereas a guy like Hardman, we KNEW would need a ton of work. We knew that guy was super raw.

I’d argue that you guys are pulling the Frank Clark talk here by saying Mecole’s 700 yards are impressive. We could have picked up an Albert Wilson type as an undrafted FA to do that role. Production is good for a 2nd rd pick but let’s be honest here: a schemed TD bc of a secondary lapse due to 2 HOF’s and Watkins garnering attention is the same as a DE getting a sack due to a free rush due to the tackle forgetting to block him bc Aaron Donald is right there inside.

Mecole being impressive is the same as saying Frank Clark can set the edge. Let’s be honest here: it’s not. And that’s why they drafted this kid.

You notice Mecole is like Frank? 2019 was his best year and it’s gone down hill ever since. They just can’t figure out what to do with this guy except be a gadget player who gets his passes in the backfield.

I think 700 yards and 7 TD’s is excellent for a rookie no matter who it is. Tyreek, Mecole and DeSean Jackson didn’t even do that.

If you think Mecole's most impressive year was 2019, I'm not sure how to respond to that.

Hardman was a genuine weapon last season, especially down the stretch. And again, Hardman has plays on his tape that nobody but a select few guys in the league can make. The TD down the sideline or on the jump pass against the Titans are plays that very VERY few people have the afterburners to pull off.

Yes, sometimes he has to be schemed into positions to succeed - but when we do that, he makes more yards out of those plays than most.

And again, if you think Skyy Moore is just going to go out there running basic route trees and killing man corners, you're gonna be real disappointed. We're going to have to scheme up plays for Moore as well. That's not a man-beater. And in the end that's why he'll spend most of the season as a gadget WR4 who may ascend to WR3 by season's end or in the case of injury.

This.

Which is why all the excuses about how "Hardman's yards were different" will be so cringe to read when those excuses start rolling in.

This too.

And you can't call it a Frank Clark comparison because I didn't even like the Hardman pick.

I've never been predisposed to defend the guy or make excuses for him. I'm just willing to acknowledge that he's been a pretty damn productive player for us.

And again, I think Moore can be similarly productive but schemed open in different ways. The distinction is that I'd ultimately end up equally lukewarm on both guys. Whereas some, many of whom shit on the Hardman pick to this day, will consider it a home run acquisition for Moore.

Hardman was a weapon, but not as a WR. He was a gadget player. I see his highlights and last year was a culmination of screens, dump off passes behind the LOS, jet sweeps and short catches for YAC. He wasn’t a WR guys.

He’s absolutely in Frank Clark territory bc like Frank he sometimes does his job well. Not anywhere near often enough. Sometimes he’s getting downfield and running a capable route. But he’s more-so ****ing up.

Be honest guys. Hardman can’t run routes, he can’t block we’ll and he isn’t reliable and he makes a lot of mental errors. He’s an overdrafted version of Isaiah McKenzie who Andy utilizes well. That’s great for a day 3 pick, but 2nd rd? Not good.

Mecole isn’t trusted. Andy didn’t trust him. You could sure as hell see Patrick couldn’t trust him. Are we forgetting that he got benched for Pringle just 6 months ago? In week 10 at Las Vegas his snap count was half of what it was at any point to that game and Pringle took those snaps. The following week against Dallas his snap count was cut in half again to only 12 snaps. Then after a bye week he had a new low of 9 snaps against the Broncos.
Then the following week he got benched on ST’s for Mike Hughes. He didn’t play a single ST’s snap that whole game for the first time in his career.

Andy said this on Mecole on 12/6:

“Sometimes it works out that way. We still have a lot of trust in Mecole, and other weeks it will be higher. It’s just the way it worked out. Sometimes those things happen,” Reid said on Monday, December 6.

Hoo boy. That’s very similar to what Andy said last month about Frank Clark. Your “weapon” doesn’t get his snaps cut for a month like that guys. He was in the dog house. Just like Frank.

And then we draft Skyy Moore. So who the hell do you think they are referring to here with this tweet? Sure as hell wasn’t Tyreek. I don’t think it was Pringle. Robinson wasn’t good but they trusted him a lot more than Hardman.

It’s Hardman they’re talking about guys. Follow the tea leaves. Listen to what they are telling you

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I asked assistant GM Mike Borgonzi what Skyy Moore brings to Chiefs that they might have lacked at WR: &quot;He&#39;s dependable. He&#39;s going to run the right route and he&#39;s going to catch the ball.&#39;&#39;</p>&mdash; Adam Teicher (@adamteicher) <a href="https://twitter.com/adamteicher/status/1520216653258272768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 30, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

DJ’s right though about Andy scheming Skyy open. He’ll try to do that for everyone.

I think Skyy Moore is gonna be our Nick Bolton pick this year. Even I was on the fence about Bolton’s poor lateral agility but look at what he did in his first year compared to a high ceiling prospect in Willie Gay? Bolton just knew how to play football and was a genuine ass kicker that we all loved as the year went on.

I think you’ll see that with Skyy Moore. I think you’re gonna be surprised DJ.

I think the important question is... Can Sky Moore be your #1 WR in 2023?

If he's ever your WR, your WR room will suck, IMO.

I don't doubt he can someday be a solid complementary WR. And again, it could happen as early as this season.

But I don't see anything to suggest you can have a halfway decent WR corps with that guy leading it. This is not a 1,200 yard receiver, IMO.

Even if he is a 1,200 yard receiver, it's going to be 1,200 yards the hard way.

I just don't understand this fan bases' 180 that's been taken this season.

This idea that Mahomes SHOULD be turning chicken shit into salad.

As if the the major burden of this team doesn't already run through Mahomes. This team is built on Mahomes, and our success is LARGELY dependent on Mahomes being amazing.

So why the **** are we trying to throw more on his plate by giving him lesser weapons to work with, like it's "the way it has to be?"

No, it doesn't have to be that way.

If Moore is your #1 receiver, then Mahomes is going to have to be excellent all the damn time.

One of these days i'll see Mahomes with some large radius WR's that can actually bail HIM out, rather than requiring pinpoint accurate passes right in the breadbox of 5-9" WR's.

I don't think he was drafted as a guy with #1 WR upside in mind. I mean, our assistant GM basically said it: "He's dependable. He's going to run the right route and he's going to catch the ball.''

If you need a guy with #1 upside you're either taking them in the top 15 or getting a project with fairly high bust potential. At least from what you're able to project in a somewhat scientific way, that's what you're working with. The Chiefs opted for a safer bet at WR here.

If you were going for the upside play, you stay at 50 and take Pickens. And hell, maybe they'd have taken Pickens at 54 if he were there - hard to say.

But WR1 upside was not what they were targeting in Moore. Having listened now to every post-draft presser from every day, from the GMs to the coaches, to the players, to the area scouts, I never got the impression for a second that they intended this kid to come in and lead the passing game at any point in his career.

He's a complementary player. And I think they know that.

So it does kinda of change the calculus with the WR high end money just exploding. Yes, you'd love to have that alpha at WR (Tyreek, Chase etc) at some point. But to pay him, it's gonna cost alot and usually to draft them it's gonna take a higher pick now.

With Mahomes at QB, you don't need WR's as much to make him look good as you do need him to make WR's. So just keep stocking the position with as much talent as you can and see what comes of it.

Sure. There's no question that the explosion in WR costs made the ability to get a productive player more valuable than ever before. And again, with our OL and QB, maybe floor is where we SHOULD focus in this WR market.

But more valuable doesn't mean he's a better player. It means the intersection of supply/demand has shifted - it doesn't make Moore any more likely to be a WR1 though.

I'm simply saying that this isn't the path I'd have taken. I'd have prioritized another DE (where the top of the market ALSO exploded and we have fewer guys capable of contributing, IMO) while taking someone like Tolbert who I see more upside with and then layering at WR w/ someone like Austin instead of taking 5 DBs.

I just don't see how you hit it and quit it at DL and WR while also taking two guys who's appeal is in their floor. I didn't want to trade up because I wanted to be able to stack ceiling and floor. We didn't really aggressively trade up (still made 10 picks) - we just got too locked in on floor and defensive back, IMO.

And I think we have a segment of the fanbase that has lost their damn minds w/r/t his actual ability and upside.

I think they passed on Pickens bc of his character. Reports said he was very hot headed and “me first” which turned teams off. Seems like Matheiu doing that all season drained the defense. Pickens also isn’t great at route running which makes sense bc he played at Georgia.

Every pick we made seemed to be high character, smart and very hard working. All football all the time. I think that kinda said enough.

I think they’ll go for the high end WR next draft. Moore seems like a replacement for Hardman who is a complimentary player.

I'm just not as concerned about him being "WR#1". I don't care about 1,2,3 etc wr's anymore. Give me 3 #2 guys and let Mahomes make them better.

I think with him at QB, if we are getting away from the stars and scrubs thing, you've gotta lean on floor a bit more.

**** thaaaat.

As I said in the Tyreek Hill thread (and later 'TRADE UP FOR THE WRS!!!11!!1!' threads) - I don't necessarily disagree.

I am fascinated by the death by 1,000 papercuts experiment as applied to the WR corps. I really do think it might work.

But I'd kinda like a Plan B if it doesn't. If it turns out that no, you really do need something of a dynamic presence in your WR corps to keep teams from locking in on traits and telegraphing what you're trying to do - well we ain't got one of those.

We don't have anyone that projects to one of those. And if this doesn't work, we likely won't have one next year either because A) They'll still be real expensive and B) this isn't an offense that's easy to hit the ground running with.

We've kinda pushed our chips in here. Whereas had we taken someone that had more ceiling like Tolbert (or not moved out and taken Pickens) and the 'quantity has it's own quality' approach didn't work, then maybe we'd have a genuine ascending alpha sort who keeps us from having to start from scratch.

They weren't tryin to pass on Pickens so much as that they saw a pool of players, "trusted their board" and assumed that at least one of those players would be available from that pool 5 spots later.

For all we know, they may have had Pickens graded slightly higher.

I think it's a safe guess to assume that Pickens, Moore, Pierce and a few others were likely part of a pool of similarly graded players.

I don't really agree with that method in this particular instance, but it's the way the draft is viewed by NFL teams.

Instead of falling in love with a player they "trusted their board", picked up the extra 5th and selected the best graded player in a pool of similarly graded players.

Let me be clear here. I agree with most of what you say here. He's not going to be Hill. He's got a better shot to be AB, but probably less than 1% chance that happens. But I think he's got a 20% chance of a couple Cooper Kupp years surrounded by sub 1000 yard seasons type player. So I think we're on the same page, largely.

What I will point out is that DAT was a pretty goddamned good player PRIOR to getting his head ripped off by the Chargers. He wasn't Hill, but he was a vastly different player than before that concussion. Which, mind you can happen to anyone (including the fan favorite Priest Holmes - which I continually catch shit as a hater for because I'll absolutely die on the hill of Charles being the vastly better player [/aside])

All that being said, it's worth pointing out that DATs pre-concussion career, playing with Alex Smith absolutely refusing to push the ball down the field, was indeed pretty successful.

I in no way want to declare war and die on the hill, so I'm not going to look up stats before and after, but we all hate DAT because we remember post-concussion DAT. Pre-concussion DAT was a different player.

Carry on.

The comp to DAT is so completely ridiculous man. Drop it. They aren't comparable players in any facet.

I'll be realistic about his floor and for me, that's Randall Cobb so long as he stays healthy. That's a career average of 53 for 651. That's a slightly higher baseline than Mecole has established so far (42 for 591). I think that's reasonable. Mecole did not come out with the same polish as this kid does. Mecole had 59 for 693 last year in his best season. I don't see Moore being less than that at the same point. He may struggle to get enough targets this year though to eclipse it.

If we concede Tate is his ceiling, fine, still a great pick. If Stafford can make Tate a 1000-yard receiver, there's no reason to think Mahomes can't make Moore a 1000-yard receiver. If you're getting that value from the 54th pick, you've done well. If he ends up getting to the volume of targets Tyreek got, it's not unreasonable to see the potential for Diontae Johnson numbers. In Tyreeks volume range, Johnson put up 88 for 923 and 7 TDs.

They’re more reasonable than this Antonio Brown shit that keeps getting sent out there.

He has the potential to be Antonio Brown as his absolute ceiling. Brown is the guy you hope he becomes, not the expectation.

DAT isn't even a comp, much less reasonable to bring into the conversation.
Moore could outperform DAT in year 1. That's just silly.

He’s just as likely to be DAT as he is to be Antonio Brown.

Again - if it’s remotely reasonable to bring a 12,000 yard WR into this discussion, it’s equally reasonable to bring a plain ol run of the mill draft bust with extremely similar athletic/physical qualities.

How so?

You're talking about a guy that was slower at 20 pounds lighter and was primarily a college RB that they'd flex out of the backfield like Goodson or Ealy and a KR.

They aren't even comparable reference points.

He's at least in the conversation based on skill and profile with guys like Curtis Samuel and Christian Kirk and such. And, thinking of Samuel, that's a guy maybe you could point an argument towards. Not DAT. He's easily going to be better than DAT. I'd be very much disappointed if all he becomes is Samuel though, and it would be very fair for you to argue he could be.

He looks like Julian Edelman with better ball skills

Because Antonio Brown is a Hall of Fame player. What do you mean ‘how so’?

Skyy Moore is SUBSTANTIALLY more likely to be out of the league before his rookie contract is over than he is to make the Hall. By a TON.

My point isn’t that I think he’ll be DAT at all. And in fact have provided my projections for a very solid 6+ year career.

I’m citing DAT because people are citing Antonio goddamn Brown and both are opposite sides of the same highly unlikely coin.

And physically where do you get that Thomas was slower than Moore. No he wasn’t. At all. I mean Dexter McCluster was - you thinking about him? Thomas was faster, quicker and more agile than Moore is. Yes, he was lighter and and yes he was an unpolished gimmick player.

And it’s still more likely that Moore ends up a flash in the pan gimmick who plays out his rookie contract and vanishes than it is that he goes to the Hall.

It’s the absolutely insane hype people are hyping on this game (who will inevitably sing his praises at years end of he goes for 45 and 500) that I’m railing against here.

DAT ran a 4.50 at the Combine. Last I checked, that's slower than 4.41.

If you want to reference a hand-timed pro day of 4.37 on a traditional "fast" track at Oregon, I'll say I don't give a ****. The insanely accurate electronic time at the combine doesn't lie. People said they hand-timed Moore in the low 4.3s too. Horseshit on both.

What you're doing though is being unreasonable about potential. I mean, you're comparing the kid to a ****ing college RB. Find a better low-end comp than DAT that at least had similar collegiate production as a WR. It'd be a far more respectable rebuttal and one people can be honest about in their heads.

I do agree though, probably unlikely he's near either.

DAT also ran a 4.39 at his pro day.