I'm rewatching season one now. For people talking about how it's a slow burn, that's basically only the first half of the first episode. It's pretty great after that, once it gets going.

Well, I mean, hot for being like 40 years old.

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THANK YOU! It was bothering the hell out of me not being able to figure out where I had seen him before.

Started Season 2 and I am very impressed.

The actors playing the serial killers are spot on- creepy.

BTK was a freaking maniac- maybe one of the worst of them all.

I remember her from some alien hunting show on TV.

Just finished season 2 last night,the dude playing Charlie Manson nails it too.

One of my favorite films ever,maybe it's because it's the first one of the series I ever saw but I'll still Brian Cox as Lector over Hopkins.

Agreed and as far as the music goes I won't show the clip but this song and the scene it was used in was two thumbs way up as well.

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Two episodes left, curious to see how they get to Wayne Williams, and then how they portray him.

All-in-all, to this point, I'd say it's a little better than season 1, even with limited Ed Kemper.

Season 2 was both very invigorating, and very infuriating.

It went so quick, I want like the entire next 3 seasons now.

Everything seemed to be kicking into gear, and it ended on an ominous, bittersweet, promising and frustrating note.

It's not that I didn't like what I got, just that it left me wanting more, MORE, MOAR!!!

Like finding out they've discoved the foundation of your house is crumbling, and they'll start work on it NEXT WEEK.

There's bad guys out there, boys!!! Chop Chop!!

So if you're like me, and usually skip the intros, don't skip the one for episode 9. You'll hear why.

Got to admit, I was a little...surprised how lenient they were with the character of Wayne Williams. I haven't read the Mindhunter book, but I have the impression that Douglas (he's Ford in the series) is convinced to this day that Williams was the one responsible, and not just for the two murders he's doing time for.

Going to be interesting to see what happens now that the city of Atlanta has re-opened the investigation, though.

He did an interview (Douglas) a few years ago. IIRC he said he felt Wayne was involved in around 13 of the murders, but that there was far more to the story of the Atlanta childmurders and the truth was “very unpleasant”.

I'm about to re-listen to an interview from a few weeks ago, linked it earlier in the thread. I was doing other things while I listened the first time, so I may not have heard what I thought I heard.

Starting Episode 6 now. We'll probably wrap it up tomorrow night.

The casting director should get an Emmy. The people they got to portray Manson and Berkowitz were amazing.

Great show.

Same guy played Manson in the new Tarantino movie.

Damon Herriman. He was also Dewey Crowe in Justified.

He's the Olivier of whacked out scumbags. :D

Now, you give him a title like that, . . . and the anus is awn you to duhfend it.

LOL. Whenever I see him I almost always yell out DEWEY!

Watching this inspired me to listen to all of Atlanta Monster again, and holy shit what a nuts case.

Wayne Williams seems to be responsible for about half of the official list, and the rest, who the **** knows. It'll be interesting to see what changes, if anything, now that they're going to put modern eyes and tech on it.

But didn't the murders stop after he was arrested? Had there been another killer, they wouldn't have.

That's a point of some contention, whether the killings stopped, or whether they stopped looking for killings that fit the original MO once they had Wayne. Some folks evidently think the mayor's office just wanted the media coverage to end.

I can believe that. Hard to believe they were able to get anything done in that political quagmire.

Yeah, first black mayor in a deep south city with a police force riddled with Klan members and somebody is killing black kids? It's a miracle they caught anyone.

Great series. I thought it moved along pretty well except the superfluous scenes with the doctor and her girlfriend. Pretty boring. She is a dud of a character. The Manson character was spot on.

Yeah, that whole story line was pointless. The stuff with Tench's whacked out kid was relevant because of the effect it had on him and his ability to function. Carr's lesbo love affair had nothing to do with anything.

I think a big part of the problem with that character this season was they didn’t giver her much to do work wise. Like Tench this season, last year they tied Ford’s stuff with his girlfriend directly to shit going on with his job.

Can't have a season of anything without some romantic drama of some kind.

Yeah, they try to add in more characters but don't really weave them into the story line for the two main persons.

The south is a different animal. I live in a city thats as liberal as San Fran. But, that racism is there. Just under the surface. I'll be talking with someone, even at work, about non racial stuff and wham, some racial comment comes out of them like this is a normal thing. And the conversation continues like they didn't say that. Its a weird thing.

It was a good season. They should just focus on the two main characters and the serial killers. Forget this personal drama at home BS.

There's just as much racism in Ann Arbor (if not more) than in Birmingham; just as much in Hartford as there is in Macon. It's just far, far more devious and clandestine.

There was a saying that in the South, black folk can get as close as they like-schools, neighborhoods, work; just don't aspire to get too high.

In the north it's the exact opposite; black people can get as high up the chain as they want-- just don't get too close.

I would suggest not watching netflix for any real life crime cases. They're heavily biased towards innocence for whoever is accused.

The evidence against Wayne Williams is much stronger then was let on in this show. He was spotted with over half the kids including one of the last 2 adults that were killed. There were 1 or 2 girls killed and one kid was shot in the head with a .22. He probably didn't commit those murders but the others, hell yeah. I you really want to read about the case read this:

https://tinyurl.com/yxgqsga5

Every few years they "reopen" the case because enough people in atlanta still don't want to admit another black was responsible.

Same goes for Making or a murderer 1 & 2, what a shitshow. Get off Netflix and take a look at the actual evidence and it's 100% obvious Avery is guilty as sin.

Having family there, and spending time there, my question would be whether that's a northern thing, or a Michigan thing. And I would tend more towards it being Michigan. And it's not clandestine. There's a pretty significant population there, especially in the rural areas, of just straight-up, straightforward racists. I haven't really encountered it anywhere else, at least not on the northeastern side of the map.

But that said it wouldn't surprise me if that's how people are outside of urban areas everywhere, north, south, east or west. Because it's kind of hard to build a rapport with or respect for any segment of the population, be they black or other minorities, that you've never actually had any contact with. Ignorance is the real root of the problem, I've always believed. People can get so easily stuck in their bubble, and that's a problem that goes way beyond skin pigment.

Great podcast because the host was actually able to record phone conversations with Wayne from prison. It was so bizarre when Wayne put one of his fellow inmates on the phone trying to promote his rapping career.

It was also interesting how Wayne constantly used the phrase "Do you understand what I'm telling you?" or some variation.

I love this cast - I just finished Episode 1 of Season II - Bill Tench is my man!

There's far more racism above the Mason Dixon line.

Good show. I enjoy the interviews more than the detective drama, though.

They have a story to tell, and I understand why they had to show the first big case where profiling predicted the perp.

I had to restart season 1. Apparently I’ve forgotten a bunch of shit.

Good news is I had forgotten that we get to see that chicks cans.

I just finished episode 7 of Season 2, I don't know if the pace is quite as good season 1 later episodes when they started solving cases. Season 2 did keep my interest except for the lesbo stuff with the barmaid, I could of done without that character, she brings nothing to the table. It would been better is Dr. Wendy was bi and had an affair with Holden, or I even better Bill Tench and then they would of had the evil kid and the affair and Bill would of been really smoking his head off. I guess they have to stick with the book, and they don't want to freelance the story.

As far as Atlanta, I lived there for exactly one year, Nov 1987 to Nov 1988, I had moved there from Savannah, where I was living for six years. I liked Savannah, I knew all the clubs, great nightlife. In Atlanta I went to the Omni and saw Pink Floyd, for some reason I was underwhelmed. I use to go to a big disco called Scenarios off of I-85, it was huge and had 3 dance floors, but hard to meet some of the woman. I dated a girl in Cumming, about 40 miles north of Atlanta. There are no black people at that time living in Forsyth County. In fact when I was dating that girl, Oprah came to the local Holiday Inn and broadcast her show there for a week. In the end, I couldn't wait to leave Atlanta.

Not reading any posts cause I only just finished the 5th episode...but damn the guy portraying Manson is so good. Probably the best actor on the show so far and that's saying something.

Did you watch Justified when it aired?

LMAO


Yeah. Don't ask me why I moved away from Virginia, where I was born.

Just finished Season 2, I guess with them leaving off with BTK they'll be a season 3. Just don't hope we have to wait two years. Season 2 made you realize the FBI sometimes have to walk on egg shells. The black mothers in Atlanta were never grateful for anything. The Atlanta politicians couldn't accept the fact the killer might be black. Wayne Williams was one smart asshole, but he finally got his due diligence. I lived in Atlanta for one year in 1988 and it's only place I've lived I really didn't like, and season 2 brought back those memories.

BTK doesn't get arrested for another 24 years.

This show can go on for many seasons. There are a lot of interesting stories to be told.

Can't remember the guy's name that plays Manson in this (Aussie actor on Justified and also played Manson briefly in Tarantino's new film) but yeah, he did a great job. The part where he jumps up on the chair was a really well acted scene.

Overall I loved this season but season one is still superior imo. Bring on Season 3!

That's what I was wondering why they were showing BTK so soon. I thought maybe they jump ahead a couple of decades, although Holden and Bill will probably be retired by then. Maybe they bring in new actors because I know filming this series takes up almost an year of each of their lives. I think I heard in an interview it took 10 months to film a season. I guess about a month per episode.

I remember a few years ago hearing Benedict Cumberbatch when asked why they're so few episodes of Sherlock, he said it took 28 days to film one episode, that was a 90 minute show. If anyone is interested Sherlock is a really good British Show, also stars Martin Freeman as Watson, you'll know him from Fargo as the insurance agent, the season with Billy Bob Thornton as the hitman. If you haven't caught Sherlock, I believe it's on Netflix, BBC Channel and PBS channels. There isn't many episodes, like about 4 per season. If you like Elementary, this is way better.

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Season one was very good. Two was almost as good. And season three is set up to be better. They'll have to do a time jump if they want this set of agents to help to catch the BTK. I heard that they only plan on four or five seasons of the show

People were confused by the importance of Carr's relationship this season?

I have 2 episodes left but I sigh everytime I have to watch that boring ass story line. Compared to the ATL storyline and the Brian storyline, it's just so lame and uneventful and seems like a waste of Carr.

Is the Brian storyline really all that interesting, either? They're both character studies. Nancy standing around smoking cigarettes, looking sullen is no more exciting.

No, but what she does after not getting her way all season was a good save

Yeah that last part at the FBI party creeped me out. I thought who would ever do that?

It was a different time.

I thought this season was excellent and right on par with its predecessor. Just disappointing it's done. I feel like I want to savor each episode as much as I have any show I've watched in awhile. And my wife who is usually far more critical than I am binged both seasons in three days. Really good stuff.

Yeah I really liked it too. Was sad when at the end of episode 7 I saw I only had 2 episodes left. I really hope they don't take 2 more years to make season 3.

I was annoyed by both story lines. Felt contrived. Lesbian can't hold a relationship together, workaholic husband can't maintain a family life...yawn/snooze/ho hum/who gives a ****?

So I watched both seasons. If you get the time, I recommend that approach. There is a lot to keep track of. Especially after 2 years.

In the first season, there was really a lot of great camerawork and blocking that reinforced a lot of storytelling. Really compelling shit. For instance, when they got out of the car at the junkyard with the chick that got her tits cut off, they showed Holden getting out of the car with his shiny shoes stepping in the mud. That showed how they were coming out of the clean abstract and down into the mud. There was also a scene where Bill and Holden were in the elevator after some shit went sideways and they were leaning on their respective sides of the elevator right against the edges of the shot showing how far apart they were. I'm sure there are many more I missed, but it was really really good filmmaking.

The second season wasn't as overt about it, but still well shot.

The second season did a better job of putting actual stakes on their work. The panic attacks were well done. Bill's story line was really well done and well acted. Wendy's situation was well played.

RE: Wendy's relationship. I thought it was an interesting dive, especially after the boss tried to pawn her off on the horndog. That was....**** man.

RE: Bill's storyline. Yeah, Nancy was fairly ****y through the whole thing, but my god McCallany played that impeccably. Just really an amazing performace. As an extension, almost every scene he's in, he absolutely crushes. When he's on it, He oozes disarming charm, when someone got under his skin, he absolutely shuts fools down. Goddamn, that performance is just incredible. Rewatch it and focus on Tench, it's incredible. In fact, I'm going to start saying, "Of course" when anyone asks for something.

RE: Holden. His shtick kind of wore on me. I haven't figured out if it is entirely intentional or not. Some of it for sure is, but I don't know yet about all of it. I think without Debbie to bounce his ideas off, I think he just came off as weird and brooding. It was probably necessary to come out of the boyish newness, but I think part of what they were going for fell flat.

RE: Manson. Dewey! Dude killed it. It was well written and acted. Is there an actual transcript or video of that one? Christ.

RE: Kemper. That is compelling television. Obviously most of the footage is in Season 1, but my god.

RE: Effect on me. Twisted said he wanted to savor it. I don't. It is compelling television and I wanted to get through it, but some of that shit; Brian's creepiness, talking about raping kids, Kemper describing ****ing his mom's neck. Christ. Shit hangs with you, and I needed to purge myself from those ideas.

I watch a lot of quality mystery and detective shows, but they are all fictional, so at first, I found this disturbing. I soon found it fascinating, though, because it’s historical and so interesting. It’s amazing that these people were able to interview so many different people and put together a whole new way to help solve crimes. Also, I really enjoyed seeing some actors that we haven’t seen before getting a chance to shine. The acting is superb. This show will be especially interesting for anyone who has watched shows with profilers.

As Chiefs fans we've been through a lot worse.

Great review/thoughts btw.

LOL That's fair. It's just heavy ass shit.

Thanks.

They need to write-in an interview with a Chiefs fan.

It would be the darkest, most disturbing data gathered so far.

Not sure why it deleted both of them. Now I can’t remember what I posted damn it.

I'd legit like to listen to a series of audiobooks narrated by the guy who plays Kemper doing the Kemper voice.

BTK was one dumb mother****er. We always like to say serial killers are so smart, but most of them are dumb as ****. He couldn't spell worth a shit. His sentence construction was worse than mine. Now that doesn't necessarily mean anything, some people just aren't articulate but how he got caught is just hilarious. He sends in letters and police are like hey man, you should use floppy disk it's easier. He replies and is like you can't trace me with those? Police are like nuh bro we can't. He sends floppy disk that has meta data from his church that traces it right back to him. Police: ROFL

Yeah, BTK disproved a lot of stereotypes about serial killer IQ's.

His testimonies were chilling partially because it was always assumed he basically committed these murders and got in and out without a trace - but in a couple of them, he was sloppy as **** and got in literal brawls with his victims.

My wife told me she got into true crime when she read "In Cold Blood" back in the 60's. I always liked that movie because it was so raw and was for real, then Courtv came along and we had a homebased business, so we would watch it all day long. That went off the air, but now we had ID (Investigation Discovery) channel and we sort of watch that all the time. Now, we're retired and can watch whenver, and I can record and skip commercials.

If you wnat to see more non-fiction real crime shows, reenactments all day and night, then watch the ID Channel. My favorite are the Paula Zahn shows, also Joe Kenda retired police detective is their #1 show, he's retiring and this is his final season, new shows are on now. They have a whole variety of shows, but occasional reruns of Dateline, 48 Hours and 20/20. For a true crime fan, this is for you. On Directv it's channel 285.

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I just finished S1E3 and so far I'm really impressed with this series. Not enough meat yet to form an opinion but 9/10 so far.

:thumb:

Here is your next serial killer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.new...amp/3856179002

In Cold Blood was an excellent movie as well.

I wish I hadn't read that article.

It was bugging me for awhile to remember what older movie I recognized Tench from...then it hit me the other day....Creepshow 2...the guy that robbed and killed the old shopkeeper couple for "Hollywood" money.

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I recognized him from Fight Club.</br></br> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/GCi_PIz5ekU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> </br></br> Just finished the 1st season = 9.5/10. Is the 2nd season as good as the 1st?

Yes

I thought season 2 was maybe a very slight step back, but we're talking a 9.3 after your 9.5. Just a couple minor quibbles.