I just went and looked up the Fielding Bible Awards and 24 different catchers received a vote for being one of the top 1-10 defensive catchers during the 2023 season and Willson Contreras did not get one vote. That's telling.

Quintana signed with the Mets too. Didn't see it mentioned.

He's a good player but his value is heavily reliant on his bat and the fact that he can catch, but he isn't a catcher. He does not get good marks for his work behind the plate or his work with pitchers. I really dont see how that fits the Cardinals philosophy on catching but hey...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Catcher Willson Contreras and the St. Louis Cardinals are in agreement on a five-year, $87.5 million contract, a source familiar with the deal tells ESPN.</p>&mdash; Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1600551569262452736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Got 5 years to figure it out.

When you have Max and Verlander at the top of the rotation...a strike throwing lefty isn't a bad signing.

We need a #1, but they cost a ton, so we will probably add another middle order starter with the other 10 we already have.

Because he's not a good defender.

This is absolutely Fowler 2.0. And somehow even less defensible.

Mozeliak is a goddamn idiot.

They must really think Herrera is dog ###

2-3 years I could live with for him (not that he would sign for that), but this is just classic Mo...just long enough that when he craps out by the all star break, you get to realize the pain will continue for another 4 1/2 years.

He just keeps getting burned by the same dumb deal for B tier players on the back side of their careers.

How can you have Fowler, Leake, Cecil and Miller on your resume over the last 5 years and think this is a good idea?

He probably thought he could get Murphy for DeJong and Noot and then reality sunk in... and when he said catcher was a priority, panicked and took what he thought was a face saver.

Your right, Fowler is the perfect comp.

Definitely going to get more production out of catcher than you've had in the majority of the last 9 seasons, but it might come at the cost of your entire pitching staff doing worse.

When you consider automated strike zone may come during Contreras' contract, it goes back to maybe his defense won't hamstring us as much as previous years.

As soon as the two-pickoff rule was implemented, guys with quicker pop times like Contreras saw their interest rise.

If his bat stays viable, he’s worth it. If it doesn’t, he’s a zero sum player.

His interest rose so much the team that has had him in their system since 2009 had literally 0 interest in extending him beyond his controlled years. Even Dusty Baker didn't want him on the Astros at the deadline when they had ****ing Martin Maldonado starting, and Baker doesn't give a **** about pitchers.

It's a business decision for the Cubs. They don't want to put dollars into a 30-year-old catcher when they have no foundational players and not even a prospect outside of Cristian Hernandez that they can really hang their hat on.

Even though I think Contreras is overrated, I think he can make the deal worthwhile. He did lead the NL in catcher OPS according to the Bill James Handbook. You're going to pay for that. He's been a subpar defensive catcher, but the catching tools were always there. He's a good athlete. I just feel like the Cardinals see an opportunity with him to smooth out some of his edges with rule changes coming.

Cristian Hernandez as their lone prospect... ROFL

I actually loved their system pre-2022 because they had a lot of high-ceiling, high-risk lower level guys.

I just feel like many of their most promising guys like Kevin Alcantara, Reginald Preciado, James Triantos didn't take that big step forward this past season and solidify themselves.

Alexander Canario was nice to see. I still don't know if he's a first-division player.

I totally forgot about Pete Crow-Armstrong, too. He's actually a high floor prospect that I should be raving about.

Totally understandable. Easy to forget about their #1 prospect rated by every publication and say that the 18 year old who struggled in rookie ball is the only one in the system.

The reports are glowing on Hernandez.

He has a 50 future value for an 18-year-old on Fangraphs. He's ranked 57th overall on Fangraphs.

How many players does Fangraphs rate above the only prospect in the Cubs system?

My whole point being is that the Cubs lack foundational pieces and Cristian Hernandez is someone I saw as a foundational piece in a farm system that doesn't have the surefire foundational pieces, albeit talented depth.

Pete Crow-Armstrong is more likely Kevin Kiermaier, Harrison Bader to me, but he's still young and building his resume.

Yeah typical move. Expected by all here.

I'm gonna be that guy and say that I actually like this move. People bitched incessantly about the black holes in the lineup. This fixes one of them. Yes, Murphy is better and younger, but the A's would have likely wanted a brutal price for those years of cheap control. Moreover, defense from the catcher position will improve from Knizer and decline only marginally from the washed up version of Yadi. His bat is good enough to profile at DH if Herrera ends up being worthy of more time behind the dish.

Who knows for sure on Murphy but supposedly the A's wanted Noot, Donovan and and a AA pitcher or either Winn or Gorman straight up.

No idea on the value chart.....

And either one of those are too much?

I would have given them both Winn and Gorman. Winn is a redundant prospect and who the **** is Gorman? Kyle Schwarber minus the ability to play even bad defense? Look at how much value Schwarber provides when he hits 40+ HRs. He's slightly above average for an every day player.

I have a hard time believing they'd take the first package. Noot is a 5th OF and Donovan just a utility guy.

WTF! Gorman for Murphy straight up is a decent deal and I like Gorman still. You get a cost controlled catcher for the next 2 full years who will hit better, play solid defense and then hopefully you either extend him to a team friendly deal or if Herrera is ready you go that direction.

You get him for the next 3 full years.

Goold reported Gordon Graceffo was the pitcher that the A's asked for.

Then Mozeliak is a moron.

Both a Noot/Donovan/Graceffo package or Gorman straight across for Murphy is 100% reasonable. Gorman straight across is goddamn robbery.

Mozeliak has traded the wrong guy so damn many times at this point that he's simply paralyzed. He realizes he has no idea who's actually good so he just won't move ANYBODY. And thus we end up with a roster full of B tier prospects who are quality players but who aren't going to win you a championship.

Noot had bettter be legit. There's some real sneaky Brandon Nimmo potential there. But that's the top 10% of his development curve and ain't all that likely.

Mozeliak is just so damn risk averse because of his own mistakes that he's a governor on this team's ability to actually contend. He needs to go.

3.

This is his arb1 season.

And Murphy does more than play 'solid' defense - he's one of the best defensive catchers in the game.

If Gorman/Murphy was actually on the table, it's just a completely absurd miss from Mozeliak.

Ben Clemens of FanGraphs contract prediction: 4/$80

Didn't mean to cut him short...still just flabbergasted it was that attainable. I thought when they said they were asking the moon, it was something like Jordan, Winn, Tink Hence, and one or two of our top current outfielders.

He also waits too long often on prospects and then can't get what he could have earlier. He can't evaluate talent period.

And then when he does pull the trigger on dealing prospects that everyone knows are big leaguers he screws the pooch bigtime. Ozuna helped us win a playoff series but imagine if we had those two pitchers on our staff and not won a playoff series. Would we have been better? I think the answer is clear.

Mo is just an idiot who knows how to make money for Dewitt. That's fine and dandy. Make him president of operations, let him make that money for Dewitt. Let someone who knows talent make player decisions.

https://fansided.com/2022/12/11/st-l...los-rodon/amp/

Setting Mo up for his “missed it by that much” yearly act.

I call BS. More Mo propaganda for the inevitable article that we tried really hard but came in 2nd. Wr see this every damn year.

Braves got Murphy and so far the only thing confirmed they gave up was William Contreras.

EDIT: Freddy Tarnok and Pina as well.

Contreras to the Brewers and Tarnok + Esteury Ruiz + Manny Pina to the A's.

That doesnt look like the A's were asking for anything outrageous that should scare a team off.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Estuery Ruiz is going from the Brewers to the A&#39;s. Joel Payamps, Justin Yeager and William Contreras are going to the Brewers in 3-team deal.</p>&mdash; Joel Sherman (@Joelsherman1) <a href="https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/1602405214006480913?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 12, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Kyle Muller going from the Braves to A's as well. Still feels like the Brewers should be giving up A LOT more in this deal.

How did the Brewers get William Contreras for nothing?

I think it's ridiculous, too.

It's amazing the value that Esteury Ruiz is fetching after his breakout season. He first was the key piece in the Josh Hader deal and then he basically gets flipped by himself for William Contreras.

I think he's a intriguing player with the new 2023 rules (85 steals in the minors last year), but he's a total Judy, too.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I should note that Rich Hill came in at 68.3 mph on 16 balls in play in 2021. So, there&#39;s a feather in Ruiz&#39;s cap.</p>&mdash; Matthew Pouliot (@matthewpouliot) <a href="https://twitter.com/matthewpouliot/status/1602467270965747712?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 13, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Rodon to NY Yankees, nobody comes in 2nd like Mo.

Man, are pitchers really fetching 27m AAV now?

For 10+ years to avoid the luxury tax. I'd bet money that MLB is going to step in on these long term contracts.

During the Pujols era until a couple of years ago, we were on the top 10 spenders, usually 8/9 but not so bad. Now, we fell out of the top ten to 13th spot in 2022. But, a lot of that money was spent poorly.

Fan Graphs has them at $164 million. Up from the $163 million from last year.

Gotta keep that powder dry. Market is crazy. Don't want to block (fill in the blank).....

Yeah, Mo, we have heard it all before.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Cubs and Dansby Swanson have an agreement on a seven-year deal for $177 million, per source. <a href="https://t.co/9cmtK9mLzL">https://t.co/9cmtK9mLzL</a></p>&mdash; Kiley McDaniel (@kileymcd) <a href="https://twitter.com/kileymcd/status/1604227896914202625?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 17, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Padres and Matt Carpenter have agreed to a deal for 2023 with a player option for the 2024 season, per a source. Carpenter will play something of a utility role in San Diego -- some 1B, LF, RF, DH and potentially backup 2B and 3B as well.</p>&mdash; AJ Cassavell (@AJCassavell) <a href="https://twitter.com/AJCassavell/status/1605254060625403905?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 20, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Breaking: Carlos Correa and the Mets have a deal. $315M, 12 years.</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1605467617019527168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 21, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Seems like a lot of money for Carpenter without having the benefit of the short right field of Yankees stadium.

Some of these contracts are just dumb

Mo gives this 3 thumbs up

Mets spending a bunch of money to finish 3rd in the division.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Media Views: Joe Buck has said no to calling Cardinals games on BSM; Bob Costas not interested <a href="https://t.co/gtHeIouA76">https://t.co/gtHeIouA76</a></p>&mdash; STLToday Sports News (@STL_SportsNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/STL_SportsNews/status/1606065303976280064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 22, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Drunk Dan is a fan favorite

Who was the most drunk in the Cardinals booth - Danny Drunk or Mike Shannon?

Harry Carey, easily.

This is the least likeable the franchise has been maybe in history .


Horrible front office.

Bland superstars.

Bottom 5 announcers.

Mediocre coaching staff with no personality.


Just absolutely blah

Then, just go **** yourself.
sec

What's so bland about Goldschmidt and Arenado?

30 HR/100 RBI players. There isn’t many of them
In MLB.

This is the annoying BFIB bullshit.

Are the Cards trading for Shane Bieber?
Is Shane Bieber a good pitcher?
What say those that are more in the know than me?

1) Probably not. The Indians are a good team and can win the ALC for the next several years. Bieber may not be there for all of them and their young pitching is insane (I LOVE Espino), but Mozeliak won't give up the pieces to make them better this year so he'll float some bullshit through a shill like Heyman or Bowden and say 'I tried'.

2) Yes he is. Very VERY good if he can find the fastball velocity from a couple years back but after some shoulder issues in 2021 that's not a given. He found a new approach last year that worked at 92-93 but he was arguably the best in baseball at 95-96.

That said, Indians are said to be interested in C and Herrera is blocked now. They have some young IFers who don't have Winn's ceiling but are more big league ready.

Carlson, O'Neill, Winn, Herrera

For

Bieber, Karinchak and Gabriel Arias

OF becomes Noot, Walker and maybe Gorman at that point. Probably too much for Cleveland to give up but pulling Karinchak out of there makes it seem like too little.

Dunno - a deal could come together.

Bieber was a Cy Young Award winner and multiple time All-Star

Just sign Bauer for league minimum.

We have too many outfielders aand 1st and 3rd is occupied for another 3-4 years. We need to keep any pitching we have in the pipeline.

WAS is the key word. He is no where near where he was when he was in the running for the best in the game. Correct?

That said, we need good pitchers. All we can get.

Wrong.

Shane Bieber was the 8th best pitcher in baseball last year and came 7th in CY voting. His CY came in the shortened 2020 season. His numbers last year meet or exceed his numbers in other full seasons where he carried his higher velocity.

Yeah, Biebs is ****in good. That said, if anything does happen, Mo will give up way too much, sign him to a guaranteed contract for way too much money, and Bieber will then proceed to cut his arm off in a freak chainsaw accident.

Um....that's what I'm doing. Converting OFers into pitchers. A #1 SP and a nails reliever.

And 'nowhere near' is strong. He had a sub 3 ERA and got CY votes last year.

But there's risk there. I don't know what to think about that shoulder. The velocity was down but he threw 200 innings and wasn't losing stuff late in games. He thought it was mechanics but I'm not so sure.

But he still has one of the best breaking balls in the game and was pitching off it last year. If he gets that velo back up to 95ish, he can throw with anyone in the game. Will he? Hard to say, but if you're not gonna pay for established top of the rotation arms, these are the risks you have to take.

Unfortunately for us, this will be the way it plays out.

It's been said already but Bieber is still a top of the rotation guy on just about every team.

He'll sign Flaherty to a 5 year deal first and proceed to get 45 innings per season out of him.

https://thecardinalnation.com/mozeli...rease-in-2023/

Mo was on KMOX Sunday....he's not adding anything meaningful to the rotation-

“And then you say, ‘Well, what are you trading for?’ Right now, the bet we are making is on Waino, Mikolas, Flaherty, Montgomery and Matz. And you’ve got Dakota in the wings…”

Whaaaaaaaat?

Mozeliak is half-assing the job? That never happens!

Remember when they were gonna raise payroll? Well, Waino got his raise and then we engaged in some creative accounting.

What more do you want?!?!

I know, as the BFIB we should just eat it and shut the **** up. They signed Wilson Contreras man!! We don't need a left handed bat or a starter. What was I thinking?

Y'know what Yadier Molina made in 2022? $10 million.

Y'know what Willson Contreras is gonna make in 2023? Oh I'll bet you can get it. Probably won't even take you two cracks at it.

Their 'big signing' in a season they promised an expanded payroll added precisely ZERO to the 2022 salary structure.

At present the 26 man roster projects to a payroll nut of less than $155 million. Just like last season.

This team truly thinks its fans are stupid. Sadly, many of them are.

The Cardinals don't deserve their fans. It's a pathetic, cheap, lazy, arrogant and entitled organization.

Just like in his playing days, Matt Holliday quits on the team. Super Joe takes his place.

So that's the pitching coach, hitting coach and bench coach who have all elected to simply walk away from jobs in St. Louis over the last 6 months.

Just a hell of an organization you've got here, Moe...

****ing clown.

The bench coach didn't even wait around for a part of the season. Something really ****ed up is happening in that clubhouse.

Yet my blah organization post was mocked ROFL Another year of a bland offseason and that turd Noot starting boys!! Yipeeee!