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-   -   I am not a fan of Veach's "tier" approach. (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=338150)

RunKC 05-11-2021 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie Lanier (Post 15669004)
So, I just want to make sure I'm understanding your logic, a late second round pick should equate to one of the best at their position in every draft?

You must be quite the draft guru...

I'm amazed Veach hasn't reached out for your input

Bolton was apparently a first round prospect that fell. He was high on some of these experts boards like Daniel Jeremiah.

So yeah there should be high expectations

RunKC 05-11-2021 11:56 AM

Despite any pre-draft issues I had with Bolton, he’s on our team now. I hope the best for him.

Hopefully he becomes an excellent backer for multiple contracts

htismaqe 05-11-2021 02:48 PM

I'm not a huge fan of the pick but the rational side of me sees the value and it's pretty high.

He's going to play this year and he's going to replace Hitchens next year. His floor is probably higher than Hitchens' talent level right now, so it will be an upgrade, even if it's only modest, and save us almost $10M.

The Franchise 05-11-2021 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 15669215)
Bolton was apparently a first round prospect that fell. He was high on some of these experts boards like Daniel Jeremiah.

So yeah there should be high expectations

That’s not how this works.

If he was taken high than he has high expectations. Just because he was higher on some boards....doesn’t mean shit.

kcbubb 05-13-2021 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 15660131)
Ronnie Perkins.

And, yeah, Basham.

The pick of Bolton tells you that the chiefs liked taco and danna more than perkins and basham. Or liked Bolton better than hitchens in comparison with Perkins or basham vs taco and danna. The chiefs just didn’t like basham or Perkins. Kaindoh has a higher ceiling than either player. He’s huge and long and has an elite 10 yard split. He’s a project but they picked him earlier than anticipated so maybe they see something there. They clearly liked kaindoh in the 4th better than basham or Perkins in the 2nd. Kaindoh is also more of a spags fit.

kccrow 05-13-2021 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb (Post 15672118)
The pick of Bolton tells you that the chiefs liked taco and danna more than perkins and basham. Or liked Bolton better than hitchens in comparison with Perkins or basham vs taco and danna. The chiefs just didn’t like basham or Perkins. Kaindoh has a higher ceiling than either player. He’s huge and long and has an elite 10 yard split. He’s a project but they picked him earlier than anticipated so maybe they see something there. They clearly liked kaindoh in the 4th better than basham or Perkins in the 2nd. Kaindoh is also more of a spags fit.

I don't think it tells you any of that.

They may have liked Perkins and Basham better than anyone on the roster and any other edge rushers remaining but didn't have them valued as high as Bolton and Humphrey. It's not like LB and OC weren't also future needs at a minimum.

I personally valued both over Bolton but not over Humphrey, albeit Perkins was a fringe fit here. I'd have likely taken Humphrey over any of them at 58 which takes Basham out of play regardless. If it came to Bolton vs Perkins, that would have been an awfully rough choice to make but I likely would have gone Perkins. It's easy for me to look in retrospect and say Basham and Humphrey but the draft doesn't run that way and you have to think who you would have taken first. Hopefully, Veach comes out the smart one and we all look back and think he made great choices.

Chris Meck 05-13-2021 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 15672256)
I don't think it tells you any of that.

They may have liked Perkins and Basham better than anyone on the roster and any other edge rushers remaining but didn't have them valued as high as Bolton and Humphrey. It's not like LB and OC weren't also future needs at a minimum.

I personally valued both over Bolton but not over Humphrey, albeit Perkins was a fringe fit here. I'd have likely taken Humphrey over any of them at 58 which takes Basham out of play regardless. If it came to Bolton vs Perkins, that would have been an awfully rough choice to make but I likely would have gone Perkins. It's easy for me to look in retrospect and say Basham and Humphrey but the draft doesn't run that way and you have to think who you would have taken first. Hopefully, Veach comes out the smart one and we all look back and think he made great choices.

Listen, I like Perkins too, but he's not a great fit as a 4-3 DE. No real length, no real beef. He's a 3-4 rushbacker. Here in KC, he'd have been a situational pass rusher, and that's not a great value fit. You have to keep the situation in mind as well as you're looking at players and not just fall in love with the kid regardless of scheme fit.

I like Basham alright, but in all honesty, I see him as a high floor, low ceiling player. I seriously doubt he's ever a difference maker type, but will likely be a solid if unspectacular DE. I don't mind rolling the dice later on a guy like Kaindoh, who COULD be a monster player OR could be selling insurance in three years. We've got enough Mike Dannas.

htismaqe 05-13-2021 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 15672256)
I don't think it tells you any of that.

They may have liked Perkins and Basham better than anyone on the roster and any other edge rushers remaining but didn't have them valued as high as Bolton and Humphrey. It's not like LB and OC weren't also future needs at a minimum.

I personally valued both over Bolton but not over Humphrey, albeit Perkins was a fringe fit here. I'd have likely taken Humphrey over any of them at 58 which takes Basham out of play regardless. If it came to Bolton vs Perkins, that would have been an awfully rough choice to make but I likely would have gone Perkins. It's easy for me to look in retrospect and say Basham and Humphrey but the draft doesn't run that way and you have to think who you would have taken first. Hopefully, Veach comes out the smart one and we all look back and think he made great choices.

I agree with this.

We got Humphrey at 63 which nobody thought could happen. If they would have taken Humphrey at 58, Basham was gone.

I think they got good value and that's what they cared about. Not that they're in love with the guys already on the roster.

The Franchise 05-13-2021 11:39 AM

If they take Humphrey at 58 then I don’t think Bolton is there at 63.

O.city 05-13-2021 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 15672312)
Listen, I like Perkins too, but he's not a great fit as a 4-3 DE. No real length, no real beef. He's a 3-4 rushbacker. Here in KC, he'd have been a situational pass rusher, and that's not a great value fit. You have to keep the situation in mind as well as you're looking at players and not just fall in love with the kid regardless of scheme fit.

I like Basham alright, but in all honesty, I see him as a high floor, low ceiling player. I seriously doubt he's ever a difference maker type, but will likely be a solid if unspectacular DE. I don't mind rolling the dice later on a guy like Kaindoh, who COULD be a monster player OR could be selling insurance in three years. We've got enough Mike Dannas.

One could argue that Bolton is a similar high floor, low ceiling type player.

htismaqe 05-13-2021 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 15672378)
One could argue that Bolton is a similar high floor, low ceiling type player.

That's a bigger thing at MLB than it is at edge. When you're drafting in the 2nd round and are trying to replace Anthony Hitchens, high floor is something you want.

staylor26 05-13-2021 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 15672412)
That's a bigger thing at MLB than it is at edge. When you're drafting in the 2nd round and are trying to replace Anthony Hitchens, high floor is something you want.

Exactly.

Kaindoh might not have Basham’s high floor, but he definitely has more upside. You can’t find a LB like that in the 4th.

The thing people are missing about Basham is that he’s a guy that you would have to slide inside on passing downs to get the most out of his pass rush abilities.

We don’t need that. We have Jones, Reed, and Wharton. We need a true edge rusher.

RunKC 05-13-2021 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 15672378)
One could argue that Bolton is a similar high floor, low ceiling type player.

I think Spags was sick and tired of putting Neimann and Sorenson at LB. In our 2 losses to the Raiders and Bucs we got our shit pushed in at the 2nd level.

In the SB we didn’t have Willie Gay, and to their credit Wilson (goal line stop) and Hitchens (forced incompletion in end zone) made plays but if you watch the 2nd half of the SB Brady literally went to the line and audibled.

Is Sorenson in as a LB? Okay we’re running.
Is Neimann in but with Sorenson to put 8 in the box? Okay we’re doing play action.

We had nothing in the middle of the field. It was by far our biggest weakness heading into the draft. They just could not expose Ben Neimann and/or Sorenson at LB anymore.

Add that our biggest competition for a ring requires us to defend the middle of the field and the run. Browns, Ravens and Bucs.

I wasn’t a big Bolton fan but I completely understand the pick

The Franchise 05-13-2021 01:02 PM

Quote:

Bills signed second-round DE Carlos Basham to a four-year contract.
Basham (6'5/285) received a three-star ranking by all three major scouting outlets before taking a redshirt season in 2016. The well built Roanoke, VA product didn’t flourish until 2018 when he recorded a robust 52 pressures, 64 tackles, 4.5 sacks and a 80.4 overall defensive grade from PFF. “Boogie” didn’t stop there, as he actually increased his production to 60 pressures, 57 tackles, 11.0 sacks and three forced fumbles while boasting first team All-ACC honors in 2019. He has a well developed set of pass rush moves and tends to rely on playing angles rather than overwhelming opponents with his bull rush, and has deceptive agility for his size and often wins with technique. Basham wasn’t quite as productive in 2020, but he showed up ready for his pro day workout, recording a big time 4.64 forty-yard dash along with an excellent 4.25 shuttle to propel his profile to an exceptional 9.54 RAS. Basham has shown the ability to anchor against the run game and deploy an arsenal of pass rush moves over his four years at Wake Forest. He figures to move to the three-technique in Buffalo's 4-3 scheme.
If this is what happens....then I can see why they didn’t take Basham.

htismaqe 05-13-2021 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15672544)
If this is what happens....then I can see why they didn’t take Basham.

He's essentially going to play the same position as Chris Jones. So yeah, no wonder they didn't take him.


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