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Deberg_1990 · 11-21-2017, 04:16 PM

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Yet, here we are looking at the same Kansas City Chiefs offense we've seen year after year.

The Chiefs have made three playoff appearances since Reid took over as head coach in 2013, losing once in the wild-card game (2013) and twice in the divisional round (2015, 2016). I'm a fan of Reid and quarterback Alex Smith, but with the way things are right now, they'll be sitting at home while Pittsburgh and New England duke it out on Championship Sunday.

I was Smith's teammate in San Francisco for one year (2010) and I got to know him well. When the weather starts playing a bigger factor in games late in the season, he's not a guy who can make tough throws in tough conditions. He's particular and wants the football a certain way. The colder the weather the firmer the ball and other conditions make the ball slippery. It's really hard to play in inclement weather as a quarterback, yet there are some guys -- like Brett Favre -- who could grab a ball out of a bucket of water or pile of mud and hurl it downfield. But everybody's not like that, including Smith. The conditions have to be right and the running game has to be there. As we've witnessed throughout his career, Smith isn't often going to transcend an offense and win a game on huge throws -- a frequent critique. He's just not that type of quarterback.

Early in the season, we saw Smith make those big plays and the Chiefs were rolling. We've seen downfield shots slowly digress as the season's gone on, a trend that goes back to at least the past two seasons. Since 2015, Smith has been far more effective throwing the ball down field (20-pus air yards) through the Chiefs' first eight games than he has in their final eight, completing more passes (42.1 percent vs. 36.7 percent) with a better TD-to-INT ratio (8:0 vs. 2:4) and a significantly higher passer rating (124.3 vs. 63.1).

Furthermore, since Smith's first year with the Chiefs in 2013, his passer rating on pass attempts of more than 20 yards has fallen off in the second half of the season.

September: 92.0
October: 111.1
November: 63.5
Dec.-Jan.: 68.8

The Chiefs' high-flying offense started to stall after the Steelers exposed a weakness in Week 6. Pittsburgh played more zone coverage and allowed them to throw the ball underneath by respecting the ability of Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce to make things happen downfield. In addition, the run game hasn't been as effective the last five games (the Chiefs are 1-4 in that stretch), averaging 81 rush yards per game. That's 70 yards per game fewer than Kansas City put up in its first five games (all wins). In my opinion, Smith needs the run game to improve or we'll likely see him continue to struggle throwing the ball downfield as this season progresses.

I know this sounds crazy, but there's a case for Patrick Mahomes, who played well in the preseason, to start in place of Smith as the playoffs near. The Chiefs gave up a third-rounder and next year's first to draft Mahomes, viewing him as their franchise quarterback of the future. He's a gunslinger who adds another dimension in the pass game when a) the weather worsens, and b) they're trying to go head to head with the AFC's best offenses.

It's definitely possible the Chiefs could find themselves in a Nathan Peterman situation, especially if they don't handle the timing of the switch well. We don't know. What I do know, though, is we can expect the same ending to the Chiefs' story if they don't change up their cast of characters.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...-limits-chiefs

**RealSNR** · 11-23-2017, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Hes been decent. Not spectacular, but definitely good enough to help the team win.

He most likely wont win in the playoffs though.

So why does Alex Smith deserve all this credit for turning the team around in 2013?

If it were Andy Reid and Case Keenum instead of Andy Reid and Alex Smith, we lose a few wins here and there, but we'd still make the playoffs a bunch.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 11-23-2017, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

Cool only problem with that whole post ..... I don't care what you think about me.

Then don't bother sharing your lame-assed opinions and/or seeking conversation, you ****ing twat.

**MahiMike** · 11-23-2017, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy Vagina

Someone that is remotely impartial should look deeper into how well most QBs perform when they have minimal run game to balance the offense.

Who is willing, and not the slackass that I am.

Heard aikman say today that Stafford has only had 1 rusher get 1000 yards in his 9 years with the Lions. Guys like him, Wilson, Rodgers, Brees for most of his career just show what great QBs look like.

**MahiMike** · 11-23-2017, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

So why does Alex Smith deserve all this credit for turning the team around in 2013?

If it were Andy Reid and Case Keenum instead of Andy Reid and Alex Smith, we lose a few wins here and there, but we'd still make the playoffs a bunch.

Agreed. Was actually thinking this during the Vikings game.

maninthemiddle · 11-23-2017, 08:43 PM

Couple things I noticed while watching the all 22:

Alex Smith has limited arm talent. He doesn't create offense. He's not going to turn a busted play into a 20-30 yard gain. The key to his success is when he makes good decisions pre-snap and post snap to put his team in manageable third downs and move the chains. After the game Reid spoke about how the offense is out of rhythm and how it's the QBs job to keep the team in rhytym. To me this means decision making.

I don't have posting permissions to post a gif but the play where Smith throws an interception on the shovel pass is a microcosm of his bad decision making in this game. Allow me to discuss the play without the visual:

It's a zone read run pass option play. Alex's read is JPP. If he stays at home on the Tyreek sweep option Alex shovels it to Kelce; if he crashes down because he recognizes Fisher doesn't even block him - pulling across his face to block the linebacker - Alex should hand to number 10. Pretty simple right? Guess not. Smith was fresh out of gigabytes on this play. The result is JPP wrecks Kelce, the ball pops up in the air and is intercepted. Let me be clear. Alex mentally took this play off. He was going to shovel it no matter what. He didn't even read JPP.

So, if Reid calls all these read option plays to play to Alex's strengths (or weaknesses depending on how you look at it) and he can't even read the weak side DE.... why is he in there? Mahommes can't do that? IF Alex gets replaced this year -- I think, believe it or not, it's because of his decision making. You know, the thing keeping the rookie on the bench.
There are more plays like this in the game but to me that's the perfect example of Smith's mental slump. Let the rookie play.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-23-2017, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maninthemiddle

Couple things I noticed while watching the all 22:

Alex Smith has limited arm talent. He doesn't create offense. He's not going to turn a busted play into a 20-30 yard gain. The key to his success is when he makes good decisions pre-snap and post snap to put his team in manageable third downs and move the chains. After the game Reid spoke about how the offense is out of rhythm and how it's the QBs job to keep the team in rhytym. To me this means decision making.

I don't have posting permissions to post a gif but the play where Smith throws an interception on the shovel pass is a microcosm of his bad decision making in this game. Allow me to discuss the play without the visual:

It's a zone read run pass option play. Alex's read is JPP. If he stays at home on the Tyreek sweep option Alex shovels it to Kelce; if he crashes down because he recognizes Fisher doesn't even block him - pulling across his face to block the linebacker - Alex should hand to number 10. Pretty simple right? Guess not. Smith was fresh out of gigabytes on this play. The result is JPP wrecks Kelce, the ball pops up in the air and is intercepted. Let me be clear. Alex mentally took this play off. He was going to shovel it no matter what. He didn't even read JPP.

So, if Reid calls all these read option plays to play to Alex's strengths (or weaknesses depending on how you look at it) and he can't even read the weak side DE.... why is he in there? Mahommes can't do that? IF Alex gets replaced this year -- I think, believe it or not, it's because of his decision making. You know, the thing keeping the rookie on the bench.
There are more plays like this in the game but to me that's the perfect example of Smith's mental slump. Let the rookie play.

Somebody give this man privileges to post gifs. Asap! Good post!

Deberg_1990 · 11-23-2017, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

So why does Alex Smith deserve all this credit for turning the team around in 2013?

If it were Andy Reid and Case Keenum instead of Andy Reid and Alex Smith, we lose a few wins here and there, but we'd still make the playoffs a bunch.

Your most likely right.

My opinion of Smith is that he isn't nearly as bad as his critics say he is, nor is is anything as great as his biggest defenders say he is. He's average.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-23-2017, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Your most likely right.

My opinion of Smith is that he isn't nearly as bad as his critics say he is, nor is is anything as great as his biggest defenders say he is. He's average.

I think most on cp acknowledge that he's a good qb but that he's not and never will be good enough to carry a team to a super bowl.

PAChiefsGuy · 11-23-2017, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think most on cp acknowledge that he's a good qb but that he's not and never will be good enough to carry a team to a super bowl.

Now that is fair but that is not what most people on CP say. They mostly say he sucks and is holding this team back.

pugsnotdrugs19 · 11-23-2017, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

Now that is fair but that is not what most people on CP say. They mostly say he sucks and is holding this team back.

Holding the team back and being unable to lead the team to a Super Bowl have largely synonymous meanings.

bigjosh · 11-23-2017, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

Now that is fair but that is not what most people on CP say. They mostly say he sucks and is holding this team back.

Agree with the bolded.

bigjosh · 11-23-2017, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

Holding the team back and being unable to lead the team to a Super Bowl have largely synonymous meanings.

Yessir, potayto potahto.

A large group of people here were against the acquisition of this guy in the first place, knowing his shortcomings. Was there a better option at the time? Debatable but probably not looking back. I have said before that I am grateful to the guy for his assistance in rebuilding this franchise from the ashes, and I wouldn't even be against him coming back to this place at a position coach capacity at some point. But I have had enough of watching him on Sundays. It may be a little more tolerable if we didnt have to watch his groupies slurping his average cock in every thread.

PAChiefsGuy · 11-23-2017, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

Holding the team back and being unable to lead the team to a Super Bowl have largely synonymous meanings.

He can lead a team to a SB but he can't carry them there. He wasn't brought here to do that and he is not being paid like a QB who does that.

You guys had unrealistic expectations for him. That's your fault, not his. He was brought here to stabilize the position and bring the winning culture back to KC. Win a playoff game which he did. Hopefully win the SB which he has not. But overall KC has done a lot better with him than they have without.

If he was truly holding this organization back Chiefs would have been winning SBs/playoff games without him. Chiefs haven't won a SB since 1970 and they didn't win a playoff gm since 1993... That's really bad and pathetic.

pugsnotdrugs19 · 11-23-2017, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

He can lead a team to a SB but he can't carry them there. He wasn't brought here to do that and he is not being paid like a QB who does that.

You guys had unrealistic expectations for him. That's your fault, not his. He was brought here to stabilize the position and bring the winning culture back to KC. Win a playoff game which he did. Hopefully win the SB which he has not. But overall KC has done a lot better with him than they have without.

If he was truly holding this organization back Chiefs would have been winning SBs/playoff games without him. Chiefs haven't won a SB since 1970 and they didn't win a playoff gm since 1993... That's really bad and pathetic.

Last year he was largely responsible for a good team exiting the playoffs early at home against Pittsburgh. He didn't have to carry them that night, he just had to hit the routine throws that were there all night. He couldn't, and now for the last month that same guy has resurfaced.

He can't carry a team to the Super Bowl, and he can't lead a team to the Super Bowl. Give him an all-timer defense and we can talk about it, but we all know that's asking for too much.

RunKC · 11-23-2017, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

He can lead a team to a SB but he can't carry them there. He wasn't brought here to do that and he is not being paid like a QB who does that.

You guys had unrealistic expectations for him. That's your fault, not his. He was brought here to stabilize the position and bring the winning culture back to KC. Win a playoff game which he did. Hopefully win the SB which he has not. But overall KC has done a lot better with him than they have without.

If he was truly holding this organization back Chiefs would have been winning SBs/playoff games without him. Chiefs haven't won a SB since 1970 and they didn't win a playoff gm since 1993... That's really bad and pathetic.

Alex was part of what got the Chiefs back to winning seasons, but now it's time to take the next step.

Pat Mahomes proves that this organization feels the same way.

11-21-2017, 04:16 PM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Deberg_1990's Avatar Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx.	David Carr " Chiefs have higher upside with Mahomes" The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Yet, here we are looking at the same Kansas City Chiefs offense we've seen year after year. The Chiefs have made three playoff appearances since Reid took over as head coach in 2013, losing once in the wild-card game (2013) and twice in the divisional round (2015, 2016). I'm a fan of Reid and quarterback Alex Smith, but with the way things are right now, they'll be sitting at home while Pittsburgh and New England duke it out on Championship Sunday. I was Smith's teammate in San Francisco for one year (2010) and I got to know him well. When the weather starts playing a bigger factor in games late in the season, he's not a guy who can make tough throws in tough conditions. He's particular and wants the football a certain way. The colder the weather the firmer the ball and other conditions make the ball slippery. It's really hard to play in inclement weather as a quarterback, yet there are some guys -- like Brett Favre -- who could grab a ball out of a bucket of water or pile of mud and hurl it downfield. But everybody's not like that, including Smith. The conditions have to be right and the running game has to be there. As we've witnessed throughout his career, Smith isn't often going to transcend an offense and win a game on huge throws -- a frequent critique. He's just not that type of quarterback. Early in the season, we saw Smith make those big plays and the Chiefs were rolling. We've seen downfield shots slowly digress as the season's gone on, a trend that goes back to at least the past two seasons. Since 2015, Smith has been far more effective throwing the ball down field (20-pus air yards) through the Chiefs' first eight games than he has in their final eight, completing more passes (42.1 percent vs. 36.7 percent) with a better TD-to-INT ratio (8:0 vs. 2:4) and a significantly higher passer rating (124.3 vs. 63.1). Furthermore, since Smith's first year with the Chiefs in 2013, his passer rating on pass attempts of more than 20 yards has fallen off in the second half of the season. September: 92.0 October: 111.1 November: 63.5 Dec.-Jan.: 68.8 The Chiefs' high-flying offense started to stall after the Steelers exposed a weakness in Week 6. Pittsburgh played more zone coverage and allowed them to throw the ball underneath by respecting the ability of Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce to make things happen downfield. In addition, the run game hasn't been as effective the last five games (the Chiefs are 1-4 in that stretch), averaging 81 rush yards per game. That's 70 yards per game fewer than Kansas City put up in its first five games (all wins). In my opinion, Smith needs the run game to improve or we'll likely see him continue to struggle throwing the ball downfield as this season progresses. I know this sounds crazy, but there's a case for Patrick Mahomes, who played well in the preseason, to start in place of Smith as the playoffs near. The Chiefs gave up a third-rounder and next year's first to draft Mahomes, viewing him as their franchise quarterback of the future. He's a gunslinger who adds another dimension in the pass game when a) the weather worsens, and b) they're trying to go head to head with the AFC's best offenses. It's definitely possible the Chiefs could find themselves in a Nathan Peterman situation, especially if they don't handle the timing of the switch well. We don't know. What I do know, though, is we can expect the same ending to the Chiefs' story if they don't change up their cast of characters. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...-limits-chiefs
Posts: 66,914

11-23-2017, 08:43 PM	#260
maninthemiddle Starter Join Date: Jan 2017	Couple things I noticed while watching the all 22: Alex Smith has limited arm talent. He doesn't create offense. He's not going to turn a busted play into a 20-30 yard gain. The key to his success is when he makes good decisions pre-snap and post snap to put his team in manageable third downs and move the chains. After the game Reid spoke about how the offense is out of rhythm and how it's the QBs job to keep the team in rhytym. To me this means decision making. I don't have posting permissions to post a gif but the play where Smith throws an interception on the shovel pass is a microcosm of his bad decision making in this game. Allow me to discuss the play without the visual: It's a zone read run pass option play. Alex's read is JPP. If he stays at home on the Tyreek sweep option Alex shovels it to Kelce; if he crashes down because he recognizes Fisher doesn't even block him - pulling across his face to block the linebacker - Alex should hand to number 10. Pretty simple right? Guess not. Smith was fresh out of gigabytes on this play. The result is JPP wrecks Kelce, the ball pops up in the air and is intercepted. Let me be clear. Alex mentally took this play off. He was going to shovel it no matter what. He didn't even read JPP. So, if Reid calls all these read option plays to play to Alex's strengths (or weaknesses depending on how you look at it) and he can't even read the weak side DE.... why is he in there? Mahommes can't do that? IF Alex gets replaced this year -- I think, believe it or not, it's because of his decision making. You know, the thing keeping the rookie on the bench. There are more plays like this in the game but to me that's the perfect example of Smith's mental slump. Let the rookie play.
Posts: 34	1 0