****OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread****

[KC_Connection]

Have been banned from the other thread by an apparently sensitive snowflake (ironically after dozens of pages of political discussion from others) so I'll stick my thoughts on the NBA Playoffs here from now on. We needed a new thread anyway.

[Perineum Ripper]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Wait...what?

Please do explain which one of those Brees lacks.

I'm curious to hear how how a 6-year run where he averaged 5k yards passing/season when prior to the start of that run there had been 4 such seasons in NFL history fails to qualify as a 'peak' or how being the all time leader in passing yards and passing touchdowns doesn't reach the 'longevity' mark.

Please - expound.

I was curious about that as well, it made no sense when I read it. So I too would love to hear more about which one Brees is missing.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Why do we care so much that LeBron isn't Jordan? Are there people that aren't happy with Mahomes because think peak Montana was better? Are there people that are upset with Mike Trout because they think Willie Mays was better?

Like seriously it's a petty argument, LeBron plays now, he's a top 10 player of all time, enjoy watching him you don't get to see that shit all that often.

Sometimes I think it's this weird nostalgia shit that everything was better when I was a kid.

Because there are still a great deal many people who insist he is.

[Mecca]

LeBron and Jordan aren't even stylistically similar players, LeBron is far more like Magic.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

KCC has been obsessed ever since 80% of the league identified MJ as the goat. Maybe more after the Last Dance aired. Thus his "True GOAT" shtick. Not sure if he cried more after the poll came out, The Royals kicked the Jay's ass in the playoffs or when Ador posterized Bautista with a beautiful right hand.

Poll? Haven't I been calling LeBron the GOAT here regularly since he beat the Warriors in 2016 (the greatest Finals performance in NBA History)?

[lcarus]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Because there are still a great deal many people who insist he is.

I totally agree that Lebron is the current generation's Michael. Kobe was the previous generation's Michael. There was some overlap between MJ and Kobe. There was some overlap between Kobe and Lebron.

I still say the overall product of the NBA was at its absolute best in the 90s. Nostalgia definitely plays a part in that, yes. But it's not the only reason.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Wait...what?

Please do explain which one of those Brees lacks.

I'm curious to hear how how a 6-year run where he averaged 5k yards passing/season when prior to the start of that run there had been 4 such seasons in NFL history fails to qualify as a 'peak' or how being the all time leader in passing yards and passing touchdowns doesn't reach the 'longevity' mark.

Please - expound.

To be the GOAT in any sport, you need to have an extended period of time in which you were the best player in the league (or in the case of quarterbacks, the best quarterback). I'm not convinced Brees has that period. Are you?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mecca

LeBron and Jordan aren't even stylistically similar players, LeBron is far more like Magic.

Which is why I focused on efficiency metrics.

If Lebrons style is more conducive to wins then it would show up in PER and VORP.

It doesn’t.

And yes, LeBron vs Magic is an apt comparison. And LeBron wins that one even if comparing mere apexes. Then again, every team ever built around James was built FOR James whereas Riley’s Lakers were weirdly slavish to getting Kareem looks in the post.

The best version of the showtime Lakers was the brief period after Mychal Thompson showed up before he aged out. When he was on the floor instead of Kareem, Magic could really show off and was every bit the monster LeBron was at his peak.

Different era.

[O.city]

I've always kind of wondered, whats the point of the "GOAT" arguments? Has anyone actually changed their minds?

This one for instance, is there anything Lebron could do at this point to change your mind? If not, whats the point in the conversation?

[KC_Connection]

Looking at Brees' career, I'm not even convinced he was the best player in the league at any point in his run. Peyton Manning was a better QB for most of his early run and Aaron Rodgers was a better QB for most of his later run (and then Mahomes showed up and has been the best QB for the past 2+ years).

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by lcarus

I totally agree that Lebron is the current generation's Michael. Kobe was the previous generation's Michael. There was some overlap between MJ and Kobe. There was some overlap between Kobe and Lebron.

I still say the overall product of the NBA was at its absolute best in the 90s. Nostalgia definitely plays a part in that, yes. But it's not the only reason.

I'd say the 80s.

There were so many styles that could win then. And you had so many truly great teams then. Boston, LA, Philly, Detroit, Houston. It was such an incredible era that somehow the Moses Malone 'fo, fo, fo' squad that won 65 games in the regular season and went 12-1 in the playoffs gets lost to history.

Ball movement was pristine, teams oftentimes truly hated each other and the differences in styles league-wide made for fascinating matchups. The whole 'styles make fights' thing really applied in the 80s.

[Mecca]

The players hating each other stuff has died in all of the leagues.

[KC_Connection]

LeBron actually has a pretty good argument that he's been the best player in the league since the start of the 2005-2006 season. There are some years recently where guys have had better regular seasons (Giannis, Harden, Curry, etc.), but I don't think anybody would seriously argue any of those guys were better overall basketball players than LeBron in any of those years. It's a pretty incredible and unprecedented run of dominance in a league like this.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

To be the GOAT in any sport, you need to have an extended period of time in which you were the best player in the league (or in the case of quarterbacks, the best quarterback). I'm not convinced Brees has that period. Are you?

I've made that precise argument a time or two 'round here.

It's more difficult to reach a real conclusion in what I believe is clearly the most 'team' dependant sport, but I think during that 5-6 year period Drew Brees absolutely has an argument to be the best QB on the planet. If you ding him for system, I think you have to ding Brady as well so he stands up there. And from '11 - '16 when Brees was torching creation, Manning wasn't Manning anymore (had his neck injury in 2011).

So at that point I'd say your best argument is Brees vs. Rodgers and yeah, you'd have a good one there. But at some point Rodgers was universally hailed because he did things more spectacularly - but that doesn't necessarily give him the clear edge over Brees unbelievable productivity in that period of time.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mecca

The players hating each other stuff has died in all of the leagues.

For sure.

Someone made a point (Dane, I think) in another thread and it's absolutely right - the rise of club ball has really thrown open the gates here. These top-level players have all known each other for years by the time they get to the pros. And there's a kinship that develops among the true cream of the crop.

I think it's more prevalent in basketball as I think there's just more travel ball played in those leagues (football and baseball are often camps). I mean these AAU and summer league teams are oftentimes how guys get scholarships anymore - the HS stuff just gets them in the door.

They share agents. They share publicists. They have shared history.

It's not reasonable to expect these guys to hate each other anymore. They have a shit load more in common with each other than they have with any other group of people on the planet.

I understand it - doesn't mean I have to like it.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

For sure.

Someone made a point (Dane, I think) in another thread and it's absolutely right - the rise of club ball has really thrown open the gates here. These top-level players have all known each other for years by the time they get to the pros. And there's a kinship that develops among the true cream of the crop.

I think it's more prevalent in basketball as I think there's just more travel ball played in those leagues (football and baseball are often camps). I mean these AAU and summer league teams are oftentimes how guys get scholarships anymore - the HS stuff just gets them in the door.

They share agents. They share publicists. They have shared history.

It's not reasonable to expect these guys to hate each other anymore. They have a shit load more in common with each other than they have with any other group of people on the planet.

I understand it - doesn't mean I have to like it.

We could get more hatred if we could get dudes to knock up then break up with other dudes sisters. Seemed to work for Ramsey and golden tate.