DT Thread

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Your argument completely ignores our need. I think you have to consider that. Our defense was 2nd overall last year but our run defense was 18th. Our run defense is a problem and Sweat occupies two blockers like few lineman can. He also has the ability to rush the passer and even if he doesn’t get there, he likely gets double teamed and frees up another rusher. I get the third and long argument but he can play on all the rest of those down. I’d take sweat in a heartbeat at 64. Our run defense is instantly better and he can help rush the passer and free up Chris jones. Those two together would be lethal.

I agree with Chris. 2nd overall with only 18th in run defense means you don't don't really need to improve the run defense - you were 2nd overall. A guy like Sweat would be great in isolation, but not worth what he would cost.

Plus, this was the offenses worst season in the Mahomes era, opposing offenses had leads and could run the ball a healthy amount. You get this offense back to 2022 levels and start piling up some points, opponents are not going to be able to run the ball as much.

[kcbubb]

What? This makes no sense to me. We were fortunate that more teams didn’t stick with the run (ravens game) and we were probably better off with nnadi being injured bc pennell was better against the run in the playoffs. Don’t you think we should improve the worst part of our defense, especially with us losing one of the best cbs in league in sneed? I can’t understand not wanting to improve the run defense with a DT that probably is double teamed most of the time even if they pass.

Originally Posted by Chargem

I agree with Chris. 2nd overall with only 18th in run defense means you don't don't really need to improve the run defense - you were 2nd overall. A guy like Sweat would be great in isolation, but not worth what he would cost.

Plus, this was the offenses worst season in the Mahomes era, opposing offenses had leads and could run the ball a healthy amount. You get this offense back to 2022 levels and start piling up some points, opponents are not going to be able to run the ball as much.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

What? This makes no sense to me. We were fortunate that more teams didn’t stick with the run (ravens game) and we were probably better off with nnadi being injured bc pennell was better against the run in the playoffs. Don’t you think we should improve the worst part of our defense, especially with us losing one of the best cbs in league in sneed? I can’t understand not wanting to improve the run defense with a DT that probably is double teamed most of the time even if they pass.

They did that because we loaded up to stop the run and dared them to throw. We can stop the run when we need to.

It's all academic. There's almost nothing Veach can do in the draft that's going to anger me. I see a lot of viable paths.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Your argument completely ignores our need. I think you have to consider that. Our defense was 2nd overall last year but our run defense was 18th. Our run defense is a problem and Sweat occupies two blockers like few lineman can. He also has the ability to rush the passer and even if he doesn’t get there, he likely gets double teamed and frees up another rusher. I get the third and long argument but he can play on all the rest of those down. I’d take sweat in a heartbeat at 64. Our run defense is instantly better and he can help rush the passer and free up Chris jones. Those two together would be lethal.

That changed pretty dramatically when we brought Pennell in for the play-off run.

Now, you can absolutely argue that Pennell is old, and we really ought to bolster that spot some, but my point is that Pennell was sitting on his couch in October. So two down run stuffers are not expensive, nor worth using a high pick on. Just find another veteran on the cheap like Pennell and rotate snaps with him. A 'better Nnadi', if you will.

I just don't think it's worth significant resources UNLESS you think the player is a freak and offers three down potential as a pass rusher. Those are rare, and maybe Sweat is one of those unicorns, but at this point it's projection.

[kcbubb]

You might be right on his positional value but I like sweat’s ability to push the pocket and limit qbs opportunities to step up and also take on double team. I see your point but at 64, that’s fair value for a DT that can occupy two blockers? I don’t remember Nnadi and Pennll getting double teamed much. You have to double team sweat, he will push the center or guard right back into the qb. Take a look here.

https://youtube.com/shorts/zCDaVQ5U7...6idJ16kB-D9hMI

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

That changed pretty dramatically when we brought Pennell in for the play-off run.

Now, you can absolutely argue that Pennell is old, and we really ought to bolster that spot some, but my point is that Pennell was sitting on his couch in October. So two down run stuffers are not expensive, nor worth using a high pick on. Just find another veteran on the cheap like Pennell and rotate snaps with him. A 'better Nnadi', if you will.

I just don't think it's worth significant resources UNLESS you think the player is a freak and offers three down potential as a pass rusher. Those are rare, and maybe Sweat is one of those unicorns, but at this point it's projection.

[Nightfyre]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

That changed pretty dramatically when we brought Pennell in for the play-off run.

Now, you can absolutely argue that Pennell is old, and we really ought to bolster that spot some, but my point is that Pennell was sitting on his couch in October. So two down run stuffers are not expensive, nor worth using a high pick on. Just find another veteran on the cheap like Pennell and rotate snaps with him. A 'better Nnadi', if you will.

I just don't think it's worth significant resources UNLESS you think the player is a freak and offers three down potential as a pass rusher. Those are rare, and maybe Sweat is one of those unicorns, but at this point it's projection.

Yea, but if it wasn't projection Sweat would go like top 10-15, imo. So if you can have him in the second? And with Cullen as his coach, Jones as his teammate and mentor, and an unquestioned motor I like the odds.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

Yea, but if it wasn't projection Sweat would go like top 10-15, imo. So if you can have him in the second? And with Cullen as his coach, Jones as his teammate and mentor, and an unquestioned motor I like the odds.

I don't hate it, and one thing I have learned is that I have no idea what Brett's going to do before he does it. It always works out and makes sense after the fact. Even if it's a swing and a miss, I understand the thinking. So, I am excited but I have no clue which way they go.

[kcbubb]

Here’s another video of sweat at the senior bowl. Good look one on one blocking sweat.

https://youtube.com/shorts/PxUayAmG1...HlGKSyUdydbkaw

[Chris Meck]

The only thing about going Sweat in the second is that I don't see them waiting to the third to address WR.

A year from now, you have Rice under contract and a 36 year old Travis Kelce. And that's it.

If they go like Morgan at OT, they kind of need to go WR at #64. If they're flexible as to the TYPE of WR, there should be several good options. If they want a specific skillset, they're going to have to do it at #32.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

The only thing about going Sweat in the second is that I don't see them waiting to the third to address WR.

A year from now, you have Rice under contract and a 36 year old Travis Kelce. And that's it.

If they go like Morgan at OT, they kind of need to go WR at #64. If they're flexible as to the TYPE of WR, there should be several good options. If they want a specific skillset, they're going to have to do it at #32.

The same can be said at DT when you have Chris Jones and that's it because Veach hasn't addressed DT in years. That said, I think it's a bit cheaper to go to the FA well for DTs. You can always do the "bring in as many cheap, relatively shitty guys as we can and see what happens" route that Veach has employed once again this year. At some point though, he should draft a DT.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by kccrow

The same can be said at DT when you have Chris Jones and that's it because Veach hasn't addressed DT in years. That said, I think it's a bit cheaper to go to the FA well for DTs. You can always do the "bring in as many cheap, relatively shitty guys as we can and see what happens" route that Veach has employed once again this year. At some point though, he should draft a DT.

I don't disagree, except that we're really talking about a depth guy at 3t, and a two down 1t.

Versus someone for Mahomes to throw the ball to.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I don't disagree, except that we're really talking about a depth guy at 3t, and a two down 1t.

Versus someone for Mahomes to throw the ball to.

We're also talking about the 3rd WR and 4th option for him to throw the ball to. We can't overqualify one while underqualifying the other.

Do I think we should go WR before DT? Yes. Would I under any circumstance? No. For example, if Ruke Ororohoro is sitting there at 64, then there better be one hell of a WR option sitting there or I'd wait until Round 3 because I think this year will have good options there.

It's all relative. The only pressing need right now is LT, until Veach does something about that in the coming days.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by kccrow

We're also talking about the 3rd WR and 4th option for him to throw the ball to. We can't overqualify one while underqualifying the other.

Do I think we should go WR before DT? Yes. Would I under any circumstance? No. For example, if Ruke Ororohoro is sitting there at 64, then there better be one hell of a WR option sitting there or I'd wait until Round 3 because I think this year will have good options there.

It's all relative. The only pressing need right now is LT, until Veach does something about that in the coming days.

That's not quite accurate. At least not for anything after 2024. There's a Rice, and...Skyy Moore. That's what would be under contract in '25.

I don't know that Kelce at 36 should be considered a WR at all, much less WR1 or 2, and that's assuming he doesn't call it a career should they threepeat. I mean, that is a very real possibility, especially with his brother calling it.

Ororohoro is an interesting prospect, for sure, but what role does he play in a Chris Jones led defensive front? He's a 3 tech. So, he spells Jones when Jones needs a breather, and he plays some passing downs if you want to move Jones out to DE? I don't see him as a run down 1T. Given how much we just paid Jones, I don't think that's a great value pick. Had we NOT signed Jones, I'd be with you.

And please don't take any snark in my response; we're just talking theoretics.

Of course, now that I've said all of that, Veach will go all in on DL in this draft. LOL

[Nightfyre]

Originally Posted by kccrow

The same can be said at DT when you have Chris Jones and that's it because Veach hasn't addressed DT in years. That said, I think it's a bit cheaper to go to the FA well for DTs. You can always do the "bring in as many cheap, relatively shitty guys as we can and see what happens" route that Veach has employed once again this year. At some point though, he should draft a DT.

I agree with this conceptually, and how the Chiefs employ it.
I would think/hope that there is some universe of resources where the Chiefs convert everything to a common unit:

Veteran league minimum or whatever% of the salary cap is worth X of made up unit (We can reference them as Chiefsbux going forward.).
Pick 17 is worth Y Chiefsbux.

Now that picks and salary cap allocations are all now quantified in Chiefsbux, you can use that to evaluate value per production at a given position.

Then employed as follows:
We can get unsatisfactory/satisfactory/strong production for 1.25 Chiefsbux. We value on this type of production as being worth 3 Chiefsbux, so our value per unit of production is net +1.75 Chiefsbux.

It's contrived, but I think it would be helpful as a secondary measure of production vs. resources:
We expect a net Chiefsbux return of +1.5/player or 150%/player at WR. Therefore, MVS producing 1.5 Chiefsbux in value versus 3.0 Chiefsbux cost is -1.5 or 50% and we are going to trigger a review of him as a cut candidate.