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Old 03-29-2023, 08:39 AM  
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***Official 2023 STL Cardinals Thread ***
2023 thread. Walker makes the roster. I'll update the rosters and opening day lineup when its official

2023 Opening Day Lineup
Spoiler!

2022 Opening Day roster.
Spoiler!

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.
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Old 07-06-2023, 05:42 AM   #826
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After half a year of broke Wainwright and now the emergence of walk with the bases loaded Hudson, things are looking rosier than ever at Busch.

It's past time for a major overhaul. Way past.
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Old 07-06-2023, 06:59 PM   #827
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Old 07-06-2023, 07:29 PM   #828
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Old 07-06-2023, 07:51 PM   #829
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DJ - what would Flaherty net us in a trade given his current hot streak?
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Old 07-06-2023, 09:05 PM   #830
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I'd see if the Dodgers would part with Dustin May given that he only has 2 years of service time left and has a history of arm troubles. The talent is immense - risk it.

Ryan Pepiot is hurt but has a ton of service time left and is a middle of the rotation talent (top of the rotation stuff; might have relief command). I believe the issue is an oblique so nothing long-term. You're not getting Stone or Sheehan but leveraging their desperate need right now could get you a really nice piece if you're willing to risk the health or command concerns that those guys bring.

One things for sure - Jack Flaherty should never make another start as a Cardinal. Deal him now. That's as good as he's looked in years - Mozeliak should've been on the phone with LAD, Philly and Baltimore before that outing was even over.
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Old 07-06-2023, 09:10 PM   #831
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Hell, the Dodgers could REALLY use Paul DeJong.

DeJong and Flaherty for Pepiot? Yeah, do that yesterday. Give Edman the SS gig back and see if that gooses his trade value for the off-season if need be.

There's a deal to be made here - Mozeliak needs to simply not be too chickenshit to make it.
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Old 07-06-2023, 09:16 PM   #832
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Hell, the Dodgers could REALLY use Paul DeJong.

DeJong and Flaherty for Pepiot? Yeah, do that yesterday. Give Edman the SS gig back and see if that gooses his trade value for the off-season if need be.

There's a deal to be made here - Mozeliak needs to simply not be too chickenshit to make it.
KTGR had someone on yesterday can't remember who it was some national guy, he said Cardinals are interesting in the trade market because what they need is starting pitching but what they have to bring the best returns in trades is starting pitching.
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Old 07-06-2023, 10:59 PM   #833
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KTGR had someone on yesterday can't remember who it was some national guy, he said Cardinals are interesting in the trade market because what they need is starting pitching but what they have to bring the best returns in trades is starting pitching.
What they need is starting pitching in 2024.

What they have are a couple solid starting pitchers in 2023.

Mozeliak shouldn't over complicate this by refusing to admit a mistake. I think they should trade Goldy and about anything else of value that isn't nailed down. But even IF that's too extreme, they should be making moves for 2024.

So that's your answer. It's not 'interesting' - it's self-evident. But this organization is absurd.
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Old 07-07-2023, 08:36 AM   #834
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What they need is starting pitching in 2024.

What they have are a couple solid starting pitchers in 2023.

Mozeliak shouldn't over complicate this by refusing to admit a mistake. I think they should trade Goldy and about anything else of value that isn't nailed down. But even IF that's too extreme, they should be making moves for 2024.

So that's your answer. It's not 'interesting' - it's self-evident. But this organization is absurd.
Cards are ****ed because Mo cant blow it up and admit that we aren't contenders anytime soon as he would be the person who put us into that situation.

DeWitt would have to fire him which we all want, but Mo is busy selling DeWitt on the idea we just need a few players for next season etc...

If DeWitt is smart he would be meeting with some baseball guys outside of the organization to get their thoughts on what the team issues are and how they would go about fixing it.
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Old 07-07-2023, 08:50 AM   #835
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Cards are ****ed because Mo cant blow it up and admit that we aren't contenders anytime soon as he would be the person who put us into that situation.

DeWitt would have to fire him which we all want, but Mo is busy selling DeWitt on the idea we just need a few players for next season etc...

If DeWitt is smart he would be meeting with some baseball guys outside of the organization to get their thoughts on what the team issues are and how they would go about fixing it.
I don't think they're that far off from contending with the lineup/field players.

Issue is pitching and until/unless they change their pitching development or spending philosophy, there will always be a cap to their potential.
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Old 07-07-2023, 09:15 AM   #836
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Cards are ****ed because Mo cant blow it up and admit that we aren't contenders anytime soon as he would be the person who put us into that situation.

DeWitt would have to fire him which we all want, but Mo is busy selling DeWitt on the idea we just need a few players for next season etc...

If DeWitt is smart he would be meeting with some baseball guys outside of the organization to get their thoughts on what the team issues are and how they would go about fixing it.
Yeah, this has gone beyond a Mozeliak problem - it's clearly a DeWitt issue.

He's allowing himself to be buffaloed by a used car salesman. It's really a poor reflection on him and how he's allowed himself to go to seed. Worse still, listening to his silver spoon kid say the same shit has me real worried that the next generation will be more of the same.

I've always been opposed to selling the team because the new ownership would carry debt service that impacts our ability to juice payroll. Unfortunately the DeWitt family and their insistence on $50 million operating profits is essentially the same thing but worse.

The team needs to be sold. This family has lost the thread.
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Old 07-07-2023, 09:53 AM   #837
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I don't think they're that far off from contending with the lineup/field players.

Issue is pitching and until/unless they change their pitching development or spending philosophy, there will always be a cap to their potential.
They have the worst outfield in the sport and a catcher who can't catch. The only way to strengthen their IF is to move the only guy they have that can play average CF back to SS (where he's a GG caliber player) thus further weakening a black hole of a position.

They have 3b playing 2b because they refuse to acknowledge that he's probably a LFer long-term and a 1b playing RF because they won't trade Goldschmidt. Oh, and Goldschmidt is 35 years old in his own right.

Yeah, they're a long way off.

This team needs to be torn down to the studs. Oh could a couple of the fringe moves that Mozeliak is likely to make get them back to .500? Sure - that's a reasonably likely outcome for 2024.

But a 'contender'? **** no. They're not close to that at all. Look at the Braves and Dodgers. Hell, look at the young talent coming up in Arizona or even Miami. Even the Phillies and Reds are light years ahead of STL in terms of core talent. Worse still, BAD teams like the Mets and Padres have significantly better foundations in place than STL has.

This team isn't likely to be a top half of the NL ballclub for the next several years. A 'slight course correction' won't get them anywhere. It needs to be fired into the sun.
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Old 07-07-2023, 11:38 AM   #838
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They have the worst outfield in the sport and a catcher who can't catch. The only way to strengthen their IF is to move the only guy they have that can play average CF back to SS (where he's a GG caliber player) thus further weakening a black hole of a position.

They have 3b playing 2b because they refuse to acknowledge that he's probably a LFer long-term and a 1b playing RF because they won't trade Goldschmidt. Oh, and Goldschmidt is 35 years old in his own right.

Yeah, they're a long way off.

This team needs to be torn down to the studs. Oh could a couple of the fringe moves that Mozeliak is likely to make get them back to .500? Sure - that's a reasonably likely outcome for 2024.

But a 'contender'? **** no. They're not close to that at all. Look at the Braves and Dodgers. Hell, look at the young talent coming up in Arizona or even Miami. Even the Phillies and Reds are light years ahead of STL in terms of core talent. Worse still, BAD teams like the Mets and Padres have significantly better foundations in place than STL has.

This team isn't likely to be a top half of the NL ballclub for the next several years. A 'slight course correction' won't get them anywhere. It needs to be fired into the sun.
The worst outfield is in part due to Nootbar and TON being injured, leaving guys like Burleson, Yepez, and Walker to play the corners when none of them should be out there aside from Walker, who projects as a 1B or DH and has only been playing OF full-time since August of last year. Carlson doesn't hit enough to justify playing him full-time, but Nootbar along with Donovan. Both of whom I consider to above average to average defensively in the OF.

Edman is awesome and can basically play anywhere, but should be moved to 2B long-term when Winn is ready. Still leaves a hole in CF unless they intend on keeping TON (which I don't foresee happening). This forces Gorman or Walker to DH. I'm willing to sacrifice this season to let Walker develop.

The rotation is a massive issue and I don't really see anyone signed for next season, aside from Mikolas, under contract that I would think can be relied on to be an above average starter. I'd consider Montgomery to be above average, but he'll be a FA.

That leaves a rotation of Mikolas and a bunch of dog shit.

To possibly resolve long-term problems by acquiring prospects or players under contract for the future, as well as allow younger players the opportunity to play, I'd do the following at the deadline:

-Trade Flaherty
-Either extend or trade Montgomery
-Trade Stratton
-Trade TON
-Trade DeJong and promote Winn
-Trade Burleson or Yepez
-DFA Kinzer and play Herrera
-DFA Matz

Probably results in 90-100 losses this year, but I don't care.

Next thing should be for Mo to be fired, but I doubt that makes a difference if DeWitt is unwilling to invest in pitching.
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Old 07-07-2023, 12:11 PM   #839
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They've been a long way off for a lot longer than most fans want to admit.
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Old 07-07-2023, 12:23 PM   #840
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They've been a long way off for a lot longer than most fans want to admit.
Depends on what you define as long way off from contending.

Last time this team probably could’ve seriously contended for a WS was 2015.

Last time they could’ve contended for a WS if the offense didn’t absolutely shit themselves with OK pitching? 2019.

2020- present has had serious issues in the rotation.
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