Mock 11/23/19

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Dylan Moses make it to us in your world?

I very much doubt that he does because teams seem to dock guys maybe 5-10 spots for injuries like that if they're considered premier talents. So if he was maybe a top 10 pick before the injury, you figure late teens after. And if he tests well, he'll lose hardly any ground at all.

And with Bush and White both struggling this year (Bush came out on fire but has fallen off over the last several weeks) it seems like it's just !@#$ing hard to play MLB in this league right now.

Maybe we didn't understand just how friggen hard it is to find someone like Derrick Johnson. I mean everyone else we talk about when we say "X would fix so many problems for us on this defense at MLB" is a HoF guy. Schobert's the only dude I've seen who fits who isn't someone like Keuchly or Wagner who are possible first ballot dudes.

It just seems the 2nd tier of 'really good MLBs' is damn near barren right now. They're either elite or they're crap.

RunKc brought it up, but Breeland Speaks over Fred Warner is tough to swallow.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by O.city

RunKc brought it up, but Breeland Speaks over Fred Warner is tough to swallow.

Yeah and it happens to every team. There are other fan boards out there taking about taking player A over Kelce. I don’t get the need to whine about it. There is no team out there that hits on every pick.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Yeah and it happens to every team. There are other fan boards out there taking about taking player A over Kelce. I don’t get the need to whine about it. There is no team out there that hits on every pick.

Yeah, for sure. It's all a crap shoot.

It just sucks double the amount cause Speaks sucks.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by O.city

Yeah, for sure. It's all a crap shoot.

It just sucks double the amount cause Speaks sucks.

It does but no one gets to talk shit if they weren’t banging the table for someone like Warner.

Case in point. DJ and I were yelling for us to draft Kamara.

[TambaBerry]

Originally Posted by O.city

Yeah, for sure. It's all a crap shoot.

It just sucks double the amount cause Speaks sucks.

He's had one season playing the wrong position how do you know he sucks already

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by TambaBerry

He's had one season playing the wrong position how do you know he sucks already

I'm open for a bet of some sort here.

I don't KNOW the sun will rise tomorrow...but I'm pretty sure of it. And I'm pretty damn sure that Breeland Speaks sucks. Sure enough that I don't feel the need to qualify it every time I say it.

We ain't in a court of law and I don't stand on ceremony. So rather than repeatedly say "I'm pretty sure Breeland Speaks sucks" I'm just gonna say "Speaks sucks" as a shorthand.

Because Speaks sucks.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

RunKc brought it up, but Breeland Speaks over Fred Warner is tough to swallow.

I've mentioned Warner as the kind of guy we should've stumbled onto at least once over the last decade if we had just TRIED.

The problem is how little effort we've put into the off-ball linebacker spot. The team post-Carl has treated ILB/MLB like Carl treated QBs. And to nobody's surprise, it's not going well.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I've mentioned Warner as the kind of guy we should've stumbled onto at least once over the last decade if we had just TRIED.

The problem is how little effort we've put into the off-ball linebacker spot. The team post-Carl has treated ILB/MLB like Carl treated QBs. And to nobody's surprise, it's not going well.

Yep.

A few 2nds, and a 3rd here or there and maybe you've got someone.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Yep.

A few 2nds, and a 3rd here or there and maybe you've got someone.

Just look at this shit:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1496

Spoiler!

Well you run into the same problem we run into when asking why Dorsey didn't draft more difference makers on defense - priority.

I mean...we haven't really tried.

Lets look at all the capital spent on off-ball LBs since DJ (I assume you're not including Hali, Houston or Ford in this and mean strictly off-ball guys not edge players):

2006: None
2007: None
2008: None
2009: None

So right away we have a 4 year stretch where we put literally NOTHING at the position. Not even a 7th round pick.

2010: Maybe you squint and say Cameron Sheffield at pick 142; a converted DE.
2011: Gabe Miller - pick 140
2012: None
2013: Nico Johnson - pick 99
2014: None
2015: Ramik Wilson -Pick 118 and DJ Alexander at 172
2016: None
2017: Ukeme Eligwe - pick 183
2018: DoD - Pick 100


In 14 years --- FOURTEEN YEARS -- we've drafted seven guys who might be classified as off-ball linebackers and even that includes DJ Alexander and Cam Sheffield who were always seen as some kind of hybrid/edge sort of players. But give ya all 7 just to be sporting; one every other year.

And in that lot we have a 3rd rounder (dead back of the round) two 4th rounders and four 5th rounders. I mean shit, since 2005 we've spent a 3rd and a 7th on a kicker and a punter. Even the trades are 5th rounders in 2 seasons for Ragland and stuff like that; nominal assets.

Now to some degree it's explained by the time we spent in a 3-4 over that period AND the presence of DJ. You've never felt the need to prioritize the position. But it's still worth pointing out that we've struggled there because we haven't tried - rightly or wrongly, we simply haven't made an effort at that position. We've drafted better than half that lot in the 5th round and spent a 5th rounder on Ragland. Value the position at roughly the 5th round and you probably shouldn't be surprised by a pittance of a return.

It's past time to change that thinking.

Same thread:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1547

Spoiler!

Which is how you get to the "maybe just try a few times?" stage of the program.

I'm not gonna kill them for not spotting every single decent potential 4-3 backer; I get that it can be difficult.

But if you won't even spin the wheel here and there, you can't even get a guy like, say, Fred Warner in here. And Warner's a solid player who you'll stumble onto every few seasons if you just make a damn effort.

Just seems strange that we don't.

Gotta at least pretend to give a shit about a position in the draft in order to get any kind of productivity from it.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Gotta at least pretend to give a shit about a position in the draft in order to get any kind of productivity from it.

I agree with this. I followed a bit of the Chiefs' recent philosophy and I threw a later pick at the position pretty much every year in the alternate reality mocks and finally may have hit on a 5th rounder in Cole Holcomb.

2016 (4-99) - Josh Perry - Whiff
2017 (5-148) - Blair Brown - Whiff
2018 - None
2019 - (5-178) - Cole Holcomb - Starting w/ 76 tackles

That's not going to cut it when you only have one somewhat decent LB on the entire team.

[Toad]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Dylan Moses make it to us in your world?

I very much doubt that he does because teams seem to dock guys maybe 5-10 spots for injuries like that if they're considered premier talents. So if he was maybe a top 10 pick before the injury, you figure late teens after. And if he tests well, he'll lose hardly any ground at all.

And with Bush and White both struggling this year (Bush came out on fire but has fallen off over the last several weeks) it seems like it's just !@#$ing hard to play MLB in this league right now.

Maybe we didn't understand just how friggen hard it is to find someone like Derrick Johnson. I mean everyone else we talk about when we say "X would fix so many problems for us on this defense at MLB" is a HoF guy. Schobert's the only dude I've seen who fits who isn't someone like Keuchly or Wagner who are possible first ballot dudes.

It just seems the 2nd tier of 'really good MLBs' is damn near barren right now. They're either elite or they're crap.

Moses dropping to KC would be good, but Schobert would be ideal in that he would hit the ground running as a true QB of the defense.

Here is a hair brained idea: player (and potential picks) tag and trade swap of CJones for Schobert.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Dylan Moses make it to us in your world?

I very much doubt that he does because teams seem to dock guys maybe 5-10 spots for injuries like that if they're considered premier talents. So if he was maybe a top 10 pick before the injury, you figure late teens after. And if he tests well, he'll lose hardly any ground at all.

And with Bush and White both struggling this year (Bush came out on fire but has fallen off over the last several weeks) it seems like it's just !@#$ing hard to play MLB in this league right now.

Maybe we didn't understand just how friggen hard it is to find someone like Derrick Johnson. I mean everyone else we talk about when we say "X would fix so many problems for us on this defense at MLB" is a HoF guy. Schobert's the only dude I've seen who fits who isn't someone like Keuchly or Wagner who are possible first ballot dudes.

It just seems the 2nd tier of 'really good MLBs' is damn near barren right now. They're either elite or they're crap.

If Moses declares after a season-ending knee injury. I haven't really put him on the radar until I see he does that. If he does, he certainly is in the realm of possibility. Obviously the situation isn't quite the same as Jaylon Smith because Moses should be able to run well by the time the draft rolls, but that injury may stick in people's heads when the draft comes.

Only reason I've pumped the brakes on Shobert was looking at the Browns free agent list. I think he gets tagged. He's been playing good enough football the past few years I think he's just as well on pace as Keuchly and Wagner at this point in his career. I don't think the Browns let that walk.

As for RB, I seriously considered mocking a FA pickup of Jordan Howard. He's the big back that can do everything that Veach seems to like and he won't come with the price tag that guys like Bell and Henry will.