Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

My as well get it started. Here's my "Matheny" lineup.....

Fowler CF
Diaz SS
Carpenter 1B
Piscotty RF
Grichuk LF
Molina C
Peralta 3B
Wong 2B
Pitcher

My "Matheny" Starting rotation

Martinez
Reyes
Wainwright
Lynn
Leake

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

Jesus, if we wanted somebody to hit .165 we could just bring Mejia up.

Yes, basically the "good" Kolten Wong for shortstop. Someone who can work a count, get on base at about a .350 clip, slug somewhere around .400 and provide solid defense, both range and reliability.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Fowler's hit extremely well in the 3 hole and his bat profiles nicely there, especially as a switch hitter. Carpenter in the leadoff spot is the only place where we may actually get plus value out of him given the fact that he can't play defense or run the bases.

Besides, we only have 3 lefties (including Fowler) so if you put Pham at leadoff, you're pretty much stuck going back to back at some point with Fowler/Carpenter and that seems like a bad idea.

Carpenter - Pham - Fowler - Ozuna goes LRLR at the top of the order with alternating OBP/Power strengths and Pham's speed ahead of a couple of guys that can score him from 1st on a double. Given the present roster, that's an easy call for 1-4.

Carpenter - Pham - Fowler - Ozuna - Gyorko - DeJong - Wong - Molina -P would be how I'd ultimately round out the present roster. Molina's such a damn clog out there that you don't want him higher in the order and DeJong can't move any further back in the order because he'll get more and more slop back there and given his shit discipline, he'll swing at it. He needs some protection on either side of him to get him pitches to hit. By the same token you can't put him any higher because he makes too many outs.

I could actually be convinced to flip Wong and Gyorko pretty easily as well. If I knew what I'd get out of Wong, I'd probably prefer it.

I agree on Molina, I just don't see the meathead putting him lower than 7th, but he actually could be a nice 8th place hitter. I like trying Jedd 5th, those are all higher than average on base guys ahead of him allowing him to cause a little more damage than he probably had opportunities to do in the past.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by VAChief

Yes, basically the "good" Kolten Wong for shortstop. Someone who can work a count, get on base at about a .350 clip, slug somewhere around .400 and provide solid defense, both range and reliability.

Can't decide if I'd want to ride the Jurickson Profar train or not.

As for availability - SS has gotten pretty thin apart from the superstars. It's tough to locate a 'middle class' shortstop tier right now. The person you're describing is probably Elvis Andrus though.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And who's glove is ACTUALLY good instead of just FORMALLY good.

Escobar isn't a major league starter at all these days.

Many don't realize how brutal the regression has been for him on D, starting in 2016.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Can't decide if I'd want to ride the Jurickson Profar train or not.



As for availability - SS has gotten pretty thin apart from the superstars. It's tough to locate a 'middle class' shortstop tier right now. The person you're describing is probably Elvis Andrus though.

Zack Cozart seemed like that type of guy. Really nice bridge player.

I think Profar is a bust, and Texas continues to want non-bust prices for him.

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

Many don't realize how brutal the regression has been for him on D, starting in 2016.

I just hope the Royals brain trust realizes that.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

Many don't realize how brutal the regression has been for him on D, starting in 2016.

I can't think of anyone that's managed to put up nearly 2,000 PAs in 3 seasons and still not even squeak out a single win share.

That combination of bad and still in the lineup is pretty unparalleled. And to get it from a player that isn't really all that expensive on a team who's top prospect is ALSO a shortstop....man, I do not understand Yost's fascination with Alcides Escobar.

Escobar has one decent season in the last 5 and that one decent season was fueled by one extremely good month. Apart from that extremely brief stretch in 2014, he's been a genuinely bad baseball player for half a decade.

Yet every day, like clockwork, he's in the lineup and usually at/near the top of the order. I mean ultimately all Yost has to do is say 'Scoreboard bitches" and I kinda have to shut up. But still...damn it's hard to find a guy with that long a period of poor production who has gotten to stay in the lineup.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Zack Cozart seemed like that type of guy. Really nice bridge player.

I think Profar is a bust, and Texas continues to want non-bust prices for him.

Was just mentioning Cozart to a friend of mine. Yeah, with the relatively small contract he got from LAA to play 3b, I gotta believe the Cards missed the boat there.

He's exactly the kind of guy you'd bring in if you didn't trust DeJong. Which tells me that the Cardinals trust DeJong.

Which worries me greatly...

[duncan_idaho]

That Angels D is going to be phenomenal, though.

I like the lineup, too, especially if Otani adds the LH thump he has the potential to add.


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[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I can't think of anyone that's managed to put up nearly 2,000 PAs in 3 seasons and still not even squeak out a single win share.

That combination of bad and still in the lineup is pretty unparalleled. And to get it from a player that isn't really all that expensive on a team who's top prospect is ALSO a shortstop....man, I do not understand Yost's fascination with Alcides Escobar.

Escobar has one decent season in the last 5 and that one decent season was fueled by one extremely good month. Apart from that extremely brief stretch in 2014, he's been a genuinely bad baseball player for half a decade.

Yet every day, like clockwork, he's in the lineup and usually at/near the top of the order. I mean ultimately all Yost has to do is say 'Scoreboard bitches" and I kinda have to shut up. But still...damn it's hard to find a guy with that long a period of poor production who has gotten to stay in the lineup.

That is your classic example where it's humans play the sport not the sabermetric numbers. Escobar voodoo magic made them go from the lead off spot for what ever reason.

But he is done. I was being a smart ass when I posted his picture.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by VAChief

I agree on Molina, I just don't see the meathead putting him lower than 7th, but he actually could be a nice 8th place hitter. I like trying Jedd 5th, those are all higher than average on base guys ahead of him allowing him to cause a little more damage than he probably had opportunities to do in the past.

Molina should never, ever ,ever hit in front of the pitcher. How successful is he going to be lumbering down to second on a sac bunt from the pitcher? If you hit Wong 8th, then when he gets on, he has the speed to potentially steal a base, and if not, he won't get gunned down on anything but a perfectly placed bunt.

Hit him seventh and that problem largely goes away.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

That Angels D is going to be phenomenal, though.

I like the lineup, too, especially if Otani adds the LH thump he has the potential to add.


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Aren't places are projecting him for 150 PAs?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

I have him as a .270 20 homer kind of guy. Last year was a fluke. Not 3 apot material in today's baseball.

In parts of three ML seasons split over 2015, 16, and 17, Pham has a wRC of 134. In the minors over the last several years before and including those seasons, his wRC was somewhere between 120-150.

Maybe he's just a really good hitter with a bad injury history instead of just a fluke?

[Rams Fan]

I am pretty content with the lineup currently. Only thing I'd want an upgrade on would be someone who can split time with DeJong at SS and play adequate defense and offense.

Gyorko doesn't really need anyone like that. I am starting to believe Wong doesn't either.

I still don't like Grichuk, but him as a 4th OF is perfectly fine.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Can't decide if I'd want to ride the Jurickson Profar train or not.

As for availability - SS has gotten pretty thin apart from the superstars. It's tough to locate a 'middle class' shortstop tier right now. The person you're describing is probably Elvis Andrus though.

I’ve always liked Elvis. He reminds me of an old school National Leaguer.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Molina should never, ever ,ever hit in front of the pitcher. How successful is he going to be lumbering down to second on a sac bunt from the pitcher? If you hit Wong 8th, then when he gets on, he has the speed to potentially steal a base, and if not, he won't get gunned down on anything but a perfectly placed bunt.

Hit him seventh and that problem largely goes away.

Yes, but it’s not like he’s not going to be clogging the bases any less at 7th. There aren’t any perfect spots to hide how slow he is and if he is hitting with Wong on first and one out or less you can hit and run with him. There are positives and negatives to both, Wong has more pluses right now to hit higher.

None of this matters anyway, because Matheny will hit him 5th or 6th where he can kill rallies hitting into double plays.