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Old 07-22-2018, 02:30 PM  
RunKC RunKC is offline
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**Official Chiefs 2018 Training Camp Thread**
A new era is born!

Mods please feel free to update this OP. Someone please put the twitter scroll in this post as well.'


Last edited by DaFace; 07-23-2018 at 09:07 AM..
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:52 PM   #781
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Meanwhile, there's been little to no criticism of Veach's draft, that on paper, looks ugly as sin.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:52 PM   #782
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This.

The Dorsey hate is idiotic. He was absolutely LOVED here until he was fired. Upon his firing, people were pissed.

Then, after weeks of debate, people convinced themselves that Dorsey was junk and that Veach was THE MAN.

Veach's first draft, on paper, is underwhelming as hell yet he gets the genius treatment because homerism.

I disagree with some things in here. People didn't convince themselves he was junk, the cap was a legit mess and players, top players, were pouting and not showing up to OTAs based directly on Dorsey's actions.

Veach's draft is going to be underwhelming without a first round pick but he appears to have nailed one on Tremon Smith anyway. Weren't you just saying people should give KPass time? and you're already burying this draft?
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:53 PM   #783
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Yet Dorsey somehow doesn't get credit even though he was drafted under Dorsey?

See, that's that moronic shit i'm talking about.
PMII was 100% a Veach guy per Reid, and it has been covered ad nauseam
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:55 PM   #784
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Originally Posted by Kiimosabi View Post
I disagree with some things in here. People didn't convince themselves he was junk, the cap was a legit mess and players, top players, were pouting and not showing up to OTAs based directly on Dorsey's actions.

Veach's draft is going to be underwhelming without a first round pick but he appears to have nailed one on Tremon Smith anyway. Weren't you just saying people should give KPass time? and you're already burying this draft?
I said on paper, regarding this draft. Initially, this draft looks like shit. Of course we'll have to see how it pans out.

And the cap issue was bound to clear up. What cap saving move has Veach done that Dorsey wouldn't have?

We all knew that Hali, DJ and Alex were going to be off the books. That was a given. The cap doesn't stay stagnant.

The fact that Tremon Smith is your shinning hope for this draft class should say enough.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:57 PM   #785
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Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare View Post
PMII was 100% a Veach guy per Reid, and it has been covered ad nauseam
Wrong.

Reid did not say that. He said Veach was adamant about him.

DORSEY is who engineered the trade. You think he wouldn't have engineered that trade if he wasn't in agreement?

He's the ****ing GM, regardless of who supported what pick, he gets credit. He gets blame for the busts, he gets credit for the stars. It happened under his watch. That's how this works.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:57 PM   #786
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Veach didn’t have a pick this year until 59, so it’s not all that fair to judge right now. Also, I think on paper it looks pretty darn decent given what he had to work with.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:59 PM   #787
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First I don't know why you're immediately strident whenever someone disagrees with you. Second Tremon looks legit and he's a 6th rounder. That's a good pick. Your take on the draft is pure opinion and one I don't disagree with necessarily but I know better than to make snap judgements.

But this cap issue being bound to clear up is just wishful thinking and not based on any kind of reality whatsoever.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:00 PM   #788
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Wrong.

Reid did not say that. He said Veach was adamant about him.

DORSEY is who engineered the trade. You think he wouldn't have engineered that trade if he wasn't in agreement?

He's the ****ing GM, regardless of who supported what pick, he gets credit. He gets blame for the busts, he gets credit for the stars. It happened under his watch. That's how this works.

Veach brought him to forefront and statements like "one of the best players I've scouted" dude. you are skewing the narrative.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:00 PM   #789
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Also, I think on paper it looks pretty darn decent given what he had to work with.
No, no the **** it doesn't. Again, this is you being glass half full. IMO, this draft reeks of scouting arrogance. A bunch of small school prospects. We'll see of course, but there's no way in hell you can look at this draft class and call it decent.

Maybe it turns out that way, it's impossible to know. But purely from a big name, high pedigree stand point, this draft sucked. There's no blue chippers in there that you can say, "Yup, that guy will be good. For sure."
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:02 PM   #790
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First I don't know why you're immediately strident whenever someone disagrees with you. Second Tremon looks legit and he's a 6th rounder. That's a good pick. Your take on the draft is pure opinion and one I don't disagree with necessarily but I know better than to make snap judgements.

But this cap issue being bound to clear up is just wishful thinking and not based on any kind of reality whatsoever.
I don't get strident. I argue an opinion, otherwise, wtf are we here for? To sing songs and hold hands in unison about everything?

What i notice is that people get all sensitive and shit while they interpret my tone. The pussification of CP continues.

And again, before Dorsey was let go, it was common knowledge that those 3 huge cap hits would be gone and would in fact clear up cap space. So i ask, what big cap moves did Veach do to clear space that weren't already a given?
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:04 PM   #791
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Veach brought him to forefront and statements like "one of the best players I've scouted" dude. you are skewing the narrative.
The only ones skewing the narrative are the ones that want to dump busts on Dorsey while not giving him credit for those he drafted. That's not how this works. That's not how this has EVER worked.

But how convenient that the rules changed for Dorsey, after Dorsey was fired, eh? But i'm skewing the narrative? Mmmkay...
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:07 PM   #792
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Doresy deserves credit for drafts.... But the guy was DOG SHIT when it came to contracts
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:10 PM   #793
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
The only ones skewing the narrative are the ones that want to dump busts on Dorsey while not giving him credit for those he drafted. That's not how this works. That's not how this has EVER worked.

But how convenient that the rules changed for Dorsey, after Dorsey was fired, eh? But i'm skewing the narrative? Mmmkay...


LOL, on PMII yes you are. Veach was hired because of him, Brett will sink or swim on Mahomes' success.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:11 PM   #794
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Meanwhile, there's been little to no criticism of Veach's draft, that on paper, looks ugly as sin.
Depends on what your expectations are. I don’t think there is a true “star” but a bunch of solid players.

This defense needs those kind of guys badly.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:12 PM   #795
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
This.

The Dorsey hate is idiotic. He was absolutely LOVED here until he was fired. Upon his firing, people were pissed.

Then, after weeks of debate, people convinced themselves that Dorsey was junk and that Veach was THE MAN.

Veach's first draft, on paper, is underwhelming as hell yet he gets the genius treatment because homerism.
I think people were hating on Dorsey for cap management reasons and letting too many big money deals consume the team. I don't think anybody said he was shitty at drafting or going dumpster diving for random players off waivers and practice squads who made some decent contributions.

The criticism I put up about his drafts wasn't just a, "Oh, he's fired? Well, I never liked this aspect of his drafts!" kind of thing. It was something discussed on CP going all the way back to the Dee Ford pick: Dorsey tended to shoot for the moon a lot in the first 3-4 rounds when he didn't necessarily have to. He'd draft a lot of high-ceiling and low floor players with really valuable draft stock, and many of those players were guys who would need redshirt rookie seasons because they'd otherwise simply get abused during the regular season. People pointed out that when he made those picks, there were plenty of guys throughout those drafts who had close to the same potential without so many hurdles to cross early in their careers.

Yes, you have to do that sometimes. Every GM does it occasionally. Even Scott Pioli did it with the Dontari Poe pick. But you need balance in case those raw, high ceiling guys don't hit at the rate you want them to.

You can criticize him for a draft strategy without saying, "I think he sucks at drafting!" Although, damn... I'm still pretty stunned how he handled the Browns' first two picks in 2018.
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