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Old 01-27-2017, 08:06 PM  
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Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread
My as well get it started. Here's my "Matheny" lineup.....

Fowler CF
Diaz SS
Carpenter 1B
Piscotty RF
Grichuk LF
Molina C
Peralta 3B
Wong 2B
Pitcher

My "Matheny" Starting rotation

Martinez
Reyes
Wainwright
Lynn
Leake
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:26 PM   #1606
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:35 PM   #1607
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If the Ozuna trade also includes Flaherty I would almost have to say it would be mandatory for the Cardinals to make a hard push for Archer + Colome. By the time anyone in the minors outside of Flaherty is ready to play in MLB or has a spot open for them Ozuna will be walking out the door unless they re-sign him and his agent is Scott Boras so the chances of extending him are very low before he is a FA, especially if he doesn't regress.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:39 PM   #1608
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San Fran newspaper is saying it's Yario Munoz for Piscotty. Know nothing about the guy.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:40 PM   #1609
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If that's legit and the best thing the Marlins get out of a trade for Ozuna is Alcantara then every investor just needs to cut them off.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:42 PM   #1610
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San Fran newspaper is saying it's Yario Munoz for Piscotty. Know nothing about the guy.
Just saw that. That had damn well better not be the end of that deal. There had better be a similarly regarded arm coming over.

A likely utility IFer who's unlikely to stick at SS and refuses to take a walk doesn't do anything for me when he's the only piece coming back in a trade for a 2-3 WAR player who's sitting in his prime and making next to dick for the next 5 years.

That would be such a shockingly typical 'sell low' move. We've really gotten damn good at those.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:43 PM   #1611
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If that's legit and the best thing the Marlins get out of a trade for Ozuna is Alcantara then every investor just needs to cut them off.
Depends.

The Cardinals have some guys like Hicks and Helsley in the low minors that are a year away from being considered top 100 guys, IMO.

If it's Alcantara, Hicks, Helsley and say Jose Adolis Garcia then they've gotten some lesser known but still extremely high ceiling guys.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:48 PM   #1612
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Depends.

The Cardinals have some guys like Hicks and Helsley in the low minors that are a year away from being considered top 100 guys, IMO.

If it's Alcantara, Hicks, Helsley and say Jose Adolis Garcia then they've gotten some lesser known but still extremely high ceiling guys.
That seems to be a fair deal for 2 years of Ozuna.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:52 PM   #1613
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:52 PM   #1614
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That seems to be a fair deal for 2 years of Ozuna.
I'd rather give up Hudson than Hicks. I'd rather give up Wacha than either of them.

I am irrationally high on Jordan Hicks. The last time I was as excited about an 'under the radar' Cardinal pitcher it was Trevor Rosenthal and then the organization set about wasting him.

So why should this be any different?
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:52 PM   #1615
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Helsley is listed as 23 in AAA. A year away from being a top 100 guy when he sits at #23 in the organization at that level seems a bit "generous."

It would be as if the Marlins completely ignored 2017 when trading Ozuna.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:55 PM   #1616
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Helsley is listed as 23 in AAA.

It would be as if the Marlins completely ignored 2017 when trading Ozuna.
That's the nature of small-school mid-round draft picks.

Helsley works easily at 96, touches 99-100 and holds his velocity late into outings to go with 2 plus off-speed pitches. I think he'll be a full time starter in the majors by 2019.

Can't always trust the lists; sometimes a deep dive is necessary. I really like what a lot of our low minors pitchers bring to the table, they just don't have the track record yet to hit national radars.

I absolutely think they'll get there.
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Old 12-13-2017, 02:07 PM   #1617
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That seems to be a fair deal for 2 years of Ozuna.
That seems like a shit return. 2 years for a guy who put up the numbers he did last year and to get a projected relief pitcher as the centerpiece of the deal? That is about on par to the deals you were scoffing at for Archer + Colome at that party, only the Marlins are stupid enough to make the deal.

Derek Jeter went to the Chip Kelly School of Team Management.
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Old 12-13-2017, 02:10 PM   #1618
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That seems like a shit return. 2 years for a guy who put up the numbers he did last year and to get a projected relief pitcher as the centerpiece of the deal? That is about on par to the deals you were scoffing at for Archer + Colome at that party, only the Marlins are stupid enough to make the deal.

Derrek Jeter went to the Chip Kelly school of team management.
Several teams were involved in the bidding so I'd imagine the other pieces are pretty good - plenty of teams would've liked to add Ozuna.

As a Cardinals fan, I'm just hoping that the Marlins are infatuated with Alcantara and that's why this deal got done. I'm just not terribly optimistic about that because I'm sure they see the same things I do - a scrawny young pitcher with a lot of velocity and iffy command.

So...Pedro Strop.

Unless they see him as Pedro Martinez, which would frankly be insane, the other parts of this deal are going to be some pretty damn nice arms in their own right.
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Old 12-13-2017, 02:27 PM   #1619
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Old 12-13-2017, 02:30 PM   #1620
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Several teams were involved in the bidding so I'd imagine the other pieces are pretty good - plenty of teams would've liked to add Ozuna.

As a Cardinals fan, I'm just hoping that the Marlins are infatuated with Alcantara and that's why this deal got done. I'm just not terribly optimistic about that because I'm sure they see the same things I do - a scrawny young pitcher with a lot of velocity and iffy command.

So...Pedro Strop.

Unless they see him as Pedro Martinez, which would frankly be insane, the other parts of this deal are going to be some pretty damn nice arms in their own right.
I dunno. Derrick Goold is saying an outfielder is heading back in return.

They said the return for Ozuna would be greater than Stanton and if it does turn out that Alcantara is the best prospect they are getting I'm not convinced that Starlin Castro wouldn't have returned something similar.

Now they are saying that Yelich is available and will cost more than Ozuna, but if its the same "cost more" (once again assuming Alcantara is the crown jewel) than Ozuna from Stanton then the Cubs better get on that ****ing phone right now. Throw Ian Happ at them and call it a ****ing day.
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