Star Wars Episode IX - SPOILER THREAD

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

There was no way to repair the whole thing after TLJ. It's a damn shame

Yep.

I'm not going to attempt to defend JJ here, but the Rise of Skywalker was a mess due specifically to KK and RJ going full on SJW with The Last Jedi, and nobody can refute that. Abrams did all he could with what he was given, which wasn't much at all.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Yep.

I'm not going to attempt to defend JJ here, but the Rise of Skywalker was a mess due specifically to KK and RJ going full on SJW with The Last Jedi, and nobody can refute that. Abrams did all he could with what he was given, which wasn't much at all.

I didn’t like TFA and liked TLJ and thought, while TLJ tried doing expanding on the story of TFA and doing things that were different and that a lot of people didn’t like, at least made some logical flow.

ROS didn’t do any of that. It completely undermined Anakin’s and Palpatine’s story arc while killing off the best part of the trilogy(Kylo).

There was no context that was earned for Palptine coming back and the Kylo/Rey lightsaber fight was just her fighting based off rage. I felt completely unemotionally attached from the fight.

Say what you will about TLJ, but the Kylo/Luke fight was earned. Kylo/Rey fight in TFA, while Rey shouldn’t have won, was warranted.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I didn’t like TFA and liked TLJ and thought, while TLJ tried doing expanding on the story of TFA and doing things that were different and that a lot of people didn’t like, at least made some logical flow.

ROS didn’t do any of that. It completely undermined Anakin’s and Palpatine’s story arc while killing off the best part of the trilogy(Kylo).

Bringing back Palpatine was a mistake for what you are saying, but due to the disaster of TLJ they weren't given much of a choice in that regard.

TLJ was a beautiful looking film, and they did try to be bold and take the story in unexpected directions, but they gambled and failed on what they were putting out. Even without all the political and SJW angles, why in the hell would you kill off Snoke? The whole movie was a turd and didn't leave any foundation for RoS to build on.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Bringing back Palpatine was a mistake for what you are saying, but due to the disaster of TLJ they weren't given much of a choice in that regard.

TLJ was a beautiful looking film, and they did try to be bold and take the story in unexpected directions, but they gambled and failed on what they were putting out. Even without all the political and SJW angles, why in the hell would you kill off Snoke? The whole movie was a turd and didn't leave any foundation for RoS to build on.

Killing Snoke would’ve been fine if a different approach was taken with regards to Kylo.

Imagine Kylo struggling to deal with being in charge of the First Order and having a conflict with Leia. I don’t think TLJ ruined ROS as much as Carrie Fisher dying did(which I believe they handled Leia well given the circumstances in ROS).

Instead, they took the cop out with Palpatine-who had no business being in the movie as his return wasn’t even brought up in the prior 2 films-to try to do something to advance the plot.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

There was no way to repair the whole thing after TLJ. It's a damn shame

I disagree 100% - Abrams just got lazy.

A creative screenwriter could have created a believable plot, with Kylo as the bad guy, eventually feeling conflicted because of Leia's death, and unable to control the monster of the First Order he had created.

You already have the setup there with Hux hating Kylo and wanting him out.

First Order turns on Kylo, he turns back to the lightside, teams with up with Rey and sacrifices himself for the good of the galaxy, since he's basically unredeemable anyway (audience would never buy it).

In the hands of a competent writer you can spin that into a satisfying ending.

Unfortunately it was in the hands of Jar Jar ****ing Abrams, who gave us PALPS BACK NO EXPLANATION AND LOL THEIR FLEET COULDN'T TAKE OFF IN TIME

[ScareCrowe]

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

I disagree 100% - Abrams just got lazy.

A creative screenwriter could have created a believable plot, with Kylo as the bad guy, eventually feeling conflicted because of Leia's death, and unable to control the monster of the First Order he had created.

You already have the setup there with Hux hating Kylo and wanting him out.

First Order turns on Kylo, he turns back to the lightside, teams with up with Rey and sacrifices himself for the good of the galaxy, since he's basically unredeemable anyway (audience would never buy it).

In the hands of a competent writer you can spin that into a satisfying ending.

Unfortunately it was in the hands of Jar Jar ****ing Abrams, who gave us PALPS BACK NO EXPLANATION AND LOL THEIR FLEET COULDN'T TAKE OFF IN TIME

While I didn't like Palpatine being brought back either, I don't think Kylo as the bad guy would have worked. There's no sense of danger from Kylo as Rey had beaten him before she ever trained. Now after having time to train we're somehow supposed to feel a sense of danger when she goes to fight someone she's already beaten.

That basic plot would have worked well. (and honestly that's pretty close to the plot we got, Kylo turned back to fight the Final Order monster he created by joining with Palpatine) The problem is there has to be someone left to fight that provides some sense of danger against Rey & Ben, who have been shown to both be very powerful force users. Snoke would have worked well, but Rian Johnson took care of that. JJ could have set Kylo up better by not having him defeated by someone who'd never used a lightsaber, so he's not blameless either. But the plot specifically with Kylo turning requires there to be a threat for them to face together that doesn't feel like a forgone conclusion.

There were no characters that feel like they could reasonably fight Rey & Ben. Hux was painted as completely ineffectual, allowing Poe to stall him leading to a dreadnought being destroyed & the rebels to escape on their low speed chase in the first place. Now we're supposed to feel danger from him leading the First Order? So you're left with bringing back an existing character like Palpatine or create a new big bad and somehow establish them as a threat and be destroyed all in one movie.

I really wonder what Rian Johnson had planned as a 3rd film after TLJ. Where he left off with TLJ definitely left whoever directed episode IX in a difficult position. I mentioned the other day (in a different thread) I rewatched TLJ & it actually isn't as bad as I had built it up into my head. As a standalone film it wasn't bad. It just doesn't work as act 2 of a trilogy IMO

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

There was no way to repair the whole thing after TLJ. It's a damn shame

TLJ was a fine movie on the whole. It was Disney giving in to the vocal minority of critics of TLJ that led to TROS and its absurd plot.

The fact that they did that only gives those people more power too, so I'd imagine this won't be the last property that Disney will destroy.