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Halfcan · 11-21-2018, 11:24 PM

We need faster LB's- they can't cover RB's or TE's.

Our Safties can't tackle or cover CB's.

jaa1025 · 11-22-2018, 01:24 AM

Pass rushers, coverage LB's and ball hawking, rangy DBs. Gone are the run stuffer lineman and linebackers. Gone are the hard hitting in the box SS. It's about creating turnovers and rushing the passer.

I'd like to say there will be a team that bucks the trend and goes old school since no defense will be able to stop a power running game but with colleges not developing big time offensive lineman like they used to with all the passing and teams making their best prospects go Dline, then I see this happening.

Chris Meck · 11-22-2018, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaa1025

Pass rushers, coverage LB's and ball hawking, rangy DBs. Gone are the run stuffer lineman and linebackers. Gone are the hard hitting in the box SS. It's about creating turnovers and rushing the passer.

I'd like to say there will be a team that bucks the trend and goes old school since no defense will be able to stop a power running game but with colleges not developing big time offensive lineman like they used to with all the passing and teams making their best prospects go Dline, then I see this happening.

exactly. and more than just 'pass rushers' INTERIOR pass rushers.

oldman · 11-22-2018, 09:21 AM

OK, Chris, you've convinced me. The bottom line is we want 2 guys applying pressure inside and guys that can rush or seal from the edge. I think your point about a 4-2-5 is well taken when 1 of your 5 is a hybrid S/ILB to cover the back or react to the run. With our current crop of young players such as Speaks, O'Daniel, and perhaps KPass, your scheme would better suit their talents and still allow for a pure edge rusher you could move side to side. I remember that we'd do that with DT and Smith on occasion. Speed and hands become the weapons at the CB spot and you could even convert bad hands WRs to that pretty easily. The key are the safeties and the ability to both cover and tackle. The only problem with that is the demand may outstrip the supply.
BTW, kudos for starting this discussion. I've enjoyed reading.

**Renegade** · 11-22-2018, 09:49 AM

So this brings up an interesting thought. With the NFL geared towards offense, what will it take for a current or future defensive player to get selected to HOF? Will the HOF become lopsided ie leaning towards offense instead of defense?

If they continue at current pace would D. Donaldson, K. Mack, JJ Watt be considered HOF material?

oldman · 11-22-2018, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade

So this brings up an interesting thought. With the NFL geared towards offense, what will it take for a current or future defensive player to get selected to HOF? Will the HOF become lopsided ie leaning towards offense instead of defense?

If they continue at current pace would D. Donaldson, K. Mack, JJ Watt be considered HOF material?

Good point. If you look at pure stats, it's going to be hard to measure the effectiveness of some positions. Can you measure a speed and hands guys against someone like Emmitt Thomas, master of the bump and run? But to answer your 2nd question, yes, those guys are game changers.

Hydrae · 11-22-2018, 11:07 AM

I think we are well set for this. Andy and Brett have been heading this direction already and it shows. Ragland would be better as a thumper in the middle (I hope at least, not sure he is smart enough to make the defensive calls). But the main thing is, have you noticed that at least our top 3 CBs are all slot corners? Able to cover close for a short period of time by which time you hope that interior rush is getting home. We just need the over the top safeties to cover the deep routes (Berry just might be helpful here

).

crayzkirk · 11-22-2018, 11:48 AM

This is an interesting topic. The changes in the rules around DBs has made it very difficult to play defense. Even with limited contact, offenses still run rub routes to get players open without really being concerned about the consequences. Being able to dictate what the other team does seems like a good strategy however you have to have the players to do it.

Players like Mahomes have to make it hard of defenses; his is mobile and throws the ball on the run as well as he does in the pocket, maybe better. I'm not sure we are going to see dominant defenses like the Ravens, which the Chiefs routinely torched, again.

It's going to be even tougher if you are always drafting in the end of each round like the Chiefs have been.

Blick · 11-22-2018, 03:48 PM

I agree that you want to find interior pass rushers. The problem with that is they are far less common than edge rushers. Donald is extremely rare. So I think you'll still see teams go after edge rushers because even though it's a longer route to the QB, it has still been proven effective even in this era.

I have some extreme ideas about secondary play. I disagree with going after safeties unless they are elite cover guys. I think you should go after all corners pretty much unless there are elite safeties. Generally, corners are faster and better cover guys than safeties. You can't hit guys over the middle now, so having an intimidating hitter at safety is useless in this era. I think you go all corners and convert them to safety. That puts more speed and coverage ability on the field. With the way teams spread out on offense now, walking out a safety to go man to man on a TE is kinda pointless. Might as well be a corner, a guy who is more comfortable in that role.

To get even more extreme, I wonder if you couldn't start converting more receivers to corner. With the way you can't use your hands in coverage anymore, having former receivers able to mirror routes and use their ball skills would be interesting. Poor tackling and big plays are going to be the norm anyway. Might as well have a bunch of fast guys out there who can catch the ball on defense.

KChiefs1 · 11-22-2018, 10:25 PM

Saints defense looked good tonight.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Demonpenz · 11-22-2018, 11:11 PM

1-10 scheme would be ideal. The 1 get pressure and the other 10 man zone coverage with 2 deep safeties

**J Diddy** · 11-23-2018, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonpenz

1-10 scheme would be ideal. The 1 get pressure and the other 10 man zone coverage with 2 deep safeties

Wait. Who's doubling the lineman who reported as an eligible receiver?

Demonpenz · 11-23-2018, 10:25 AM

One thing teams are really scouting for is if players raise their hand as a fist as a gesture to everyone that is 4th down. It is really key on 3rd down stops for them to put their fist in the hair while taking out mouthpiece.

jaa1025 · 11-23-2018, 12:50 AM

I don't think the offenses have changed much to be honest. There are just more offenses doing what Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees etc led offenses did: Spread teams out and pass more. It's the changing of the guard and scoring will dip as those QB's retire.

2018 is a mere .8 PPG higher than the 2013 season. 2017, scoring was down to the lowest since 2009 at 21.7 PPG, a full point lower at least than the previous 3 seasons.

11-21-2018, 11:24 PM	#2
Halfcan In Search of a Life Halfcan's Avatar Join Date: Aug 2005	We need faster LB's- they can't cover RB's or TE's. Our Safties can't tackle or cover CB's.
Posts: 43,200	1 0

11-22-2018, 01:24 AM	#3
jaa1025 Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006	Pass rushers, coverage LB's and ball hawking, rangy DBs. Gone are the run stuffer lineman and linebackers. Gone are the hard hitting in the box SS. It's about creating turnovers and rushing the passer. I'd like to say there will be a team that bucks the trend and goes old school since no defense will be able to stop a power running game but with colleges not developing big time offensive lineman like they used to with all the passing and teams making their best prospects go Dline, then I see this happening.
Posts: 2,922	1 0

11-22-2018, 09:21 AM	#5
oldman Curmudgeon oldman's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North by Northwest	OK, Chris, you've convinced me. The bottom line is we want 2 guys applying pressure inside and guys that can rush or seal from the edge. I think your point about a 4-2-5 is well taken when 1 of your 5 is a hybrid S/ILB to cover the back or react to the run. With our current crop of young players such as Speaks, O'Daniel, and perhaps KPass, your scheme would better suit their talents and still allow for a pure edge rusher you could move side to side. I remember that we'd do that with DT and Smith on occasion. Speed and hands become the weapons at the CB spot and you could even convert bad hands WRs to that pretty easily. The key are the safeties and the ability to both cover and tackle. The only problem with that is the demand may outstrip the supply. BTW, kudos for starting this discussion. I've enjoyed reading.
Posts: 5,319	1 0

11-22-2018, 09:49 AM	#6
Renegade Just Lurking Renegade's Avatar Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ozark Mountain Country	So this brings up an interesting thought. With the NFL geared towards offense, what will it take for a current or future defensive player to get selected to HOF? Will the HOF become lopsided ie leaning towards offense instead of defense? If they continue at current pace would D. Donaldson, K. Mack, JJ Watt be considered HOF material?
Posts: 2,015

11-22-2018, 11:07 AM	#8
Hydrae Sandbox: Leander Lasercats Hydrae's Avatar Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Austin, Tx	I think we are well set for this. Andy and Brett have been heading this direction already and it shows. Ragland would be better as a thumper in the middle (I hope at least, not sure he is smart enough to make the defensive calls). But the main thing is, have you noticed that at least our top 3 CBs are all slot corners? Able to cover close for a short period of time by which time you hope that interior rush is getting home. We just need the over the top safeties to cover the deep routes (Berry just might be helpful here ).
Posts: 14,691

11-22-2018, 11:48 AM	#9
crayzkirk Veteran Join Date: Nov 2016	This is an interesting topic. The changes in the rules around DBs has made it very difficult to play defense. Even with limited contact, offenses still run rub routes to get players open without really being concerned about the consequences. Being able to dictate what the other team does seems like a good strategy however you have to have the players to do it. Players like Mahomes have to make it hard of defenses; his is mobile and throws the ball on the run as well as he does in the pocket, maybe better. I'm not sure we are going to see dominant defenses like the Ravens, which the Chiefs routinely torched, again. It's going to be even tougher if you are always drafting in the end of each round like the Chiefs have been.
Posts: 4,372

11-22-2018, 03:48 PM	#10
Blick Veteran Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: South KC	I agree that you want to find interior pass rushers. The problem with that is they are far less common than edge rushers. Donald is extremely rare. So I think you'll still see teams go after edge rushers because even though it's a longer route to the QB, it has still been proven effective even in this era. I have some extreme ideas about secondary play. I disagree with going after safeties unless they are elite cover guys. I think you should go after all corners pretty much unless there are elite safeties. Generally, corners are faster and better cover guys than safeties. You can't hit guys over the middle now, so having an intimidating hitter at safety is useless in this era. I think you go all corners and convert them to safety. That puts more speed and coverage ability on the field. With the way teams spread out on offense now, walking out a safety to go man to man on a TE is kinda pointless. Might as well be a corner, a guy who is more comfortable in that role. To get even more extreme, I wonder if you couldn't start converting more receivers to corner. With the way you can't use your hands in coverage anymore, having former receivers able to mirror routes and use their ball skills would be interesting. Poor tackling and big plays are going to be the norm anyway. Might as well have a bunch of fast guys out there who can catch the ball on defense.
Posts: 1,209

11-22-2018, 10:25 PM	#11
KChiefs1 I’m a Mahomo! KChiefs1's Avatar Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mid-Missouri	Saints defense looked good tonight. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posts: 54,038

11-22-2018, 11:11 PM	#12
Demonpenz I got Rice cookin in the micro Demonpenz's Avatar Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!"	1-10 scheme would be ideal. The 1 get pressure and the other 10 man zone coverage with 2 deep safeties
Posts: 54,288

11-23-2018, 10:25 AM	#14
Demonpenz I got Rice cookin in the micro Demonpenz's Avatar Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!"	One thing teams are really scouting for is if players raise their hand as a fist as a gesture to everyone that is 4th down. It is really key on 3rd down stops for them to put their fist in the hair while taking out mouthpiece.
Posts: 54,288	0 1

11-23-2018, 12:50 AM	#15
jaa1025 Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006	I don't think the offenses have changed much to be honest. There are just more offenses doing what Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees etc led offenses did: Spread teams out and pass more. It's the changing of the guard and scoring will dip as those QB's retire. 2018 is a mere .8 PPG higher than the 2013 season. 2017, scoring was down to the lowest since 2009 at 21.7 PPG, a full point lower at least than the previous 3 seasons.
Posts: 2,922