****Official 2017-2018 Missouri Tigers Basketball Thread****

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Back up in your ass with the resurrection. Follow the Cuonzo Martin era here.

Recruiting Commitments:

2017:
Michael Porter Jr., SF, *****, Gatorade National Player of the Year
CJ Roberts, PG, ****
Blake Harris, PG, ***/****
Jeremiah Tilmon, F/C, ****
Kassius Robertson, Grad Transfer
Jontay Porter (possible re-classification from Class of '18), ****

Departures: No one that matters
Returning Players: No one that matters

Overall class ranking: #6 nationally.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Now you're just having the same conversation (argument) that many of us have had with the idiot blue hairs that wanted to go back to the good ol' days of Norm.

The Good Ol' Days yielded Norm Stewart pissing off the entire St. Louis area and MU trying to put together quality classes while getting no help from its most fertile local area. People kept wondering why he couldn't get to the Final 4 and the answer was almost invariably that he was a player short when the rubber hit the road.

Stewart's as much to blame as anyone for Mizzou's St. Louis problem. And as Duncan noted, there have been a couple 'saviors' since him. Here's hoping that Cuonzo can finally un**** that situation.

And when he does, it will be because the 'good ol' days' have been mercifully sent to live on a farm. The sooner we can distance this program from the Stewart era, the better.

Well, yeah, probably. I know that was a "good" era in MU history and he was a good coach, but time has a funny way of making guys look different. In any manner, Cuonzo has them on a good path out of the woods. I'm excited to see Porter.

[duncan_idaho]

The long issue with Mizzou hoops has been that it should land a top 20-25 recruiting class basically every year, with a top 10-15 class sprinkled in here and there, if it was getting its fair share of the in-state and regional talent.

That should result in a team that is top 25 most years, with a rebuilding year every 3-5 years that results in a bubble/NIt team, a couple teams good enough a decade to compete for a league title and a Sweet 16 run, and solid tourney teams the rest of the time.

But the program has never been that for long periods. Norm Stewart had a few stretches here and there, but his whole tenure wasn't that.

Martin's recruiting looks like he is capable of pulling in those types of recruiting classes and maybe more.

If his coaching improves on offense enough, the results should start to match. Exciting.


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[duncan_idaho]

Also: I will double-down on that Carte'are Gordon comment.


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[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I'll eat crow on this.

I never believed he would recruit this well in St. Louis. I've seen too many supposed fixes fail there (getting rid of Stewart, hiring Corey Tate, hiring DeMontie Cross, etc.).

He definitely would have been superior to Kim Anderson, which isn't saying a ton.

A big part of it, too, is his willingness to change his offense. That's probably the biggest transformation for me, because I think he wasted a lot of talent at Tennessee and Cal because the offensive approach was bad.




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This is an underrated issue, IMO. It may have served Missouri best to hire him now, given his willingness to change.

[KChiefs1]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

They're going to get Carte'are Gordon, too.

I was dead wrong about Martin's cache in the St. Louis area. He's just as much of a factor there as his protractors said he would be (to be fair, the same people were saying Corey Tate and Demontie Cross would allow Mizzou to dominate there, too).

Throw in the major shift in offensive philosophy, and my worries about Martin have all faded away.

The 18-19 Tigers are going to feature 3 top 40 players on the interior, all of whom were 5-stars at one point or another. Sexy.


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That would be huge.

St Louis is the key to Mizzou basketball.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I was dead wrong about Martin's cache in the St. Louis area.

Didn't somebody tell you that.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Didn't somebody tell you that.

Some did.

Problem was, there were no facts that could be pointed to as evidence. It was all based on feel.

It's still weird to me he didn't work those connections while at Tennessee or SMS.


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[O.city]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Some did.

Problem was, there were no facts that could be pointed to as evidence. It was all based on feel.

It's still weird to me he didn't work those connections while at Tennessee or SMS.


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MSU

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Some did.

Problem was, there were no facts that could be pointed to as evidence. It was all based on feel.

It's still weird to me he didn't work those connections while at Tennessee or SMS.

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4 of his 11 high school recruits were from the St. Louis metro during his time at Missouri State. 5th was Otto Porter's cousin from the bootheel.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

4 of his 11 high school recruits were from the St. Louis metro during his time at Missouri State. 5th was Otto Porter's cousin from the bootheel.

I see 3/12 on 247. Is there a transfer in there I'm missing, or are you counting Versailles or Miller as part of the metro?


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['Hamas' Jenkins]

Martin was the right hire this time, but it doesn't mean that he was the right guy six years ago or three, even if he was clearly a superior choice to Haith or Anderson. Sometimes guys need to fail and struggle to improve. That might also be the problem with Odom. He might be a good coach, but he might not be a good coach yet.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I see 3/12 on 247. Is there a transfer in there I'm missing, or are you counting Versailles or Miller as part of the metro?


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Deron Hobbs - Vashon
Jerome Jones - Miller Career Academy (its somewhere around SLU or Forest Park I think)
Keith Pickens - Oakville
Nathan Scheer - Borgia

Also Otto Porter loved Zo. Kept Missouri State in his top schools a lot longer than he should have because of that relationship.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Martin was the right hire this time, but it doesn't mean that he was the right guy six years ago or three, even if he was clearly a superior choice to Haith or Anderson. Sometimes guys need to fail and struggle to improve. That might also be the problem with Odom. He might be a good coach, but he might not be a good coach yet.

This seems like a sadly inescapable conclusion.

10 years from now I worry that Odom will be a damn good coach somewhere after taking some lumps for awhile at a mid-major. But it won't be here. The ground beneath him just will not firm up and he doesn't seem equipped to fix it on his own.

Damn he could've used some time at a non Power 5 school. Maybe a lower level FBS squad; MAC team kind of apprenticeship. This is just too much, too fast.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

This seems like a sadly inescapable conclusion.

10 years from now I worry that Odom will be a damn good coach somewhere after taking some lumps for awhile at a mid-major. But it won't be here. The ground beneath him just will not firm up and he doesn't seem equipped to fix it on his own.

Damn he could've used some time at a non Power 5 school. Maybe a lower level FBS squad; MAC team kind of apprenticeship. This is just too much, too fast.

The Mack Rhoades Corollary: if Mack Rhoades is involved in the decision, it will end poorly.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Deron Hobbs - Vashon

Jerome Jones - Miller Career Academy (its somewhere around SLU or Forest Park I think)

Keith Pickens - Oakville

Nathan Scheer - Borgia



Also Otto Porter loved Zo. Kept Missouri State in his top schools a lot longer than he should have because of that relationship.

Jones is the one I wasn't counting. I took that as Miller, Mo, which is in the southwest corner of the state.

Still seems weird that a guy with Martin's level of impact in St Louis now wasn't getting more guys like Scheer, at his level, out of St. Louis, than he did.

But cest la vie

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

This seems like a sadly inescapable conclusion.



10 years from now I worry that Odom will be a damn good coach somewhere after taking some lumps for awhile at a mid-major. But it won't be here. The ground beneath him just will not firm up and he doesn't seem equipped to fix it on his own.



Damn he could've used some time at a non Power 5 school. Maybe a lower level FBS squad; MAC team kind of apprenticeship. This is just too much, too fast.

Like Memphis?

He would have taken that job, most likely, had he not gotten Mizzou... if he hadn't taken a D.C. Job at a SEC school. He would have had a few options there, too.



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