NFL trade watch

[staylor26]

Lol I hope the Dolphins make this move so he doesn’t go to a contender

[O.city]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Lol I hope the Dolphins make this move so he doesn’t go to a contender

Me too.

It's getting to the point where, if you were the Chiefs and the Texans would take a 3rd (I doubt they would) youd have to think about renting him for a year?

[O.city]

Yes there has been a belief that Clowney would report this week. I heard rumblings there was friction and maybe both Clowney and Cook were not on the same page in terms of Clowney's future. Apparently there was enough to part ways at a very important time in Clowney's career. https://t.co/qolaGk5u18

— James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) August 27, 2019

[O.city]

Dolphins are very interested in trading for Jadeveon Clowney, according to league sources, but have to get him interested in going there. Prefers Seahawks, Eagles as potential destinations. Fluid situation because he has leverage as unsigned franchise player

— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL) August 27, 2019

Do it Howie.

[O.city]

#Texans franchised pass-rusher Jadeveon Clowney has met in person with #Dolphins coach Brian Flores and other members of the organization’s brass, sources say. There has been speculation that Miami is a possible landing spot.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) August 27, 2019

[O.city]

This again where teams do stuff and are impatient.

The Dolphins are gonna suck, they should fire sale everything and load up on picks.

Now they're gonna trade for a guy that they can't resign, give up a high pick and lose him next year?

I'd get it if the Eagles do it. But the Phins, eh.

[O.city]

The Texans did engage teams on Jadeveon Clowney some in the spring. The belief then, according to multiple clubs involved, was that he could be had for a second-round pick.

— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) August 27, 2019

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

The Texans did engage teams on Jadeveon Clowney some in the spring. The belief then, according to multiple clubs involved, was that he could be had for a second-round pick.

— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) August 27, 2019

{facepalm}

Clark for a 1st and 2nd or Clowney for a 2nd?

Yeah, I'd take the latter every time.

I still think Veach is prone to target fixation and that's how he ends up overpaying for guys like Watkins, Mathieu (FA) and Clark (trade). It's why he felt the need to trade up for Speaks. He just gets too inflexible, IMO.

[Buckweath]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

{facepalm}

Clark for a 1st and 2nd or Clowney for a 2nd?

Yeah, I'd take the latter every time.

I still think Veach is prone to target fixation and that's how he ends up overpaying for guys like Watkins, Mathieu (FA) and Clark (trade). It's why he felt the need to trade up for Speaks. He just gets too inflexible, IMO.

Clark was obtained for compensation equivalent to a late 1st round pick and a 4th round pick (same year).

Clark is the better passrusher which is more valuable.

I remember Clark tweeting that all he wanted was a bag and the sack record.

He's got the bag now. I wonder if he could actually have that monster year in terms of sacks. I mean, he won't beat the sack record but I don't know that 15-20 sacks is out of question.

I feel good about him.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Buckweath

Clark was obtained for compensation equivalent to a late 1st round pick and a 4th round pick (same year).

Clark is the better passrusher which is more valuable.

I remember Clark tweeting that all he wanted was a bag and the sack record.

He's got the bag now. I wonder if he could actually have that monster year in terms of sacks. I mean, he won't beat the sack record but I don't know that 15-20 sacks is out of question.

I feel good about him.

The cost to move up 8 spots in the 3rd was roughly the value of a late 4th round pick. So the Chiefs gave up a 1st rounder and a 3rd rounder (in real value) for Clark and a 4th rounder.

That's a fair amount more than a 2nd round pick. I mean you just crunch the numbers on the hallowed 'draft pick chart' and you're effectively talking about roughly the 22nd overall pick when you start setting everything off.

Again - that's quite a bit more valuable than a 2nd round pick. Somewhere around twice as valuable depending on where everything may ultimately shake out.

And it's just awfully difficult to say that Clark is worth twice the trade compensation as Clowney, is it not? Especially when both guys are looking at similar contract demands.

And again - I'm not saying this deal can't work out. I'm just saying that I think some folks are moving that bar pretty low, pretty fast. If I'm betting, I'd say that Clark goes out there and plays well. But probably more akin to Tamba Hali than prime Justin Houston (and that's acknowledging that Hali was underrated). And after giving up what we gave up and paying him as one of the top 5 defensive players in football, I'd like to think expecting something near a Peak Justin Houston impact isn't unreasonable. Hali's deal was worth about 11% of the cap over his peak years and Houston's worth around 12%. Clark will fall around 12% as well. That extra 1% is significant in a $180-$200 million cap era. And while peak Hali was a very good player - I think giving up what we gave up in terms of pick compensation and cap space for something less than Prime Houston when we're paying roughly similar to what we paid for Houston in that era has to be seen as a disappointment even though it isn't a disaster.

I'm just saying that the guy needs to be !@#$ing good to make that contract and that trade make sense. This isn't Okafor here - this guy is the centerpiece to a defensive rebuild and he needs to have a friggen monster year to justify this. The Chiefs gave up a lot.

[staylor26]

That’s a little unfair. This is a unique situation in that the Texans have totally ****ed up. They are an absolute mess right now and don’t even have a GM.

They’re going to end up giving a 3rd for ****ing Duke Johnson.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

That’s a little unfair. This is a unique situation in that the Texans have totally ****ed up. They are an absolute mess right now and don’t even have a GM.

They’re going to end up giving a 3rd for ****ing Duke Johnson.

But if that was the proposed compensation in the spring (per the Tweet) then it was still a time the Chiefs could've taken advantage of the discord.

It's not a one-off, is all I'm saying. He has several of these iffy sorts of deals on his register already. I mean that Clark trade/contract is such that he'd BETTER be a top 5 finisher for the DPOY. All the "man, Clark looks pretty good" stuff is kinda strange to me because we just traded for and paid the man as though he's nearly as good as Kalil Mack.

So if he goes out there and provides good run defense and 10-12 sacks, some people are going to say "hey, nice acquisition" whereas I see no way to call that anything but a failure. Brett Veach paid dearly for Frank Clark and if he's not a genuine difference maker, that's another L. Watkins is almost certainly an L; hard for him to do anything that will justify the $30+ million he's going to make in the 2 years of this deal. Hitchens isn't quite set in stone as an L yet because that's probably a 3 year deal with a reasonable possibility for 4 if he bounces back - there's time there.

And I'll ask the same thing I asked on Mathieu when we originally signed him - as much as I like the player, if Mathieu was seeking $10 million/season the year before after AZ cut him and had a solid but not eye opening season in Houston (he was essentially the same player he's always been), where the hell were the Chiefs in 2018 when he was available at $10 million/season and why was he suddenly worth $14 million in 2019? That's that target fixation at work again, IMO - when he wasn't on Veach's radar, he wasn't worth $10 million to this franchise. But once Veach decided he wanted Tyron Mathieu, plan B wasn't even a consideration and he was just going to pay what it took.

Some will applaud that - pick your guy and do what it takes to get him. Okay - but it had better work. It's what I said about Pioli way back when he was dumping over the roster, bringing in Patriot retreads and putting his eggs in the Matt Cassel basket. I thought it was foolish but acknowledged that if he's going to have that kind of tunnel vision - he'd better be right.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

But if that was the proposed compensation in the spring (per the Tweet) then it was still a time the Chiefs could've taken advantage of the discord.

It's not a one-off, is all I'm saying. He has several of these iffy sorts of deals on his register already. I mean that Clark trade/contract is such that he'd BETTER be a top 5 finisher for the DPOY. All the "man, Clark looks pretty good" stuff is kinda strange to me because we just traded for and paid the man as though he's nearly as good as Kalil Mack.

So if he goes out there and provides good run defense and 10-12 sacks, some people are going to say "hey, nice acquisition" whereas I see no way to call that anything but a failure. Brett Veach paid dearly for Frank Clark and if he's not a genuine difference maker, that's another L. Watkins is almost certainly an L; hard for him to do anything that will justify the $30+ million he's going to make in the 2 years of this deal. Hitchens isn't quite set in stone as an L yet because that's probably a 3 year deal with a reasonable possibility for 4 if he bounces back - there's time there.

And I'll ask the same thing I asked on Mathieu when we originally signed him - as much as I like the player, if Mathieu was seeking $10 million/season the year before after AZ cut him and had a solid but not eye opening season in Houston (he was essentially the same player he's always been), where the hell were the Chiefs in 2018 when he was available at $10 million/season and why was he suddenly worth $14 million in 2019? That's that target fixation at work again, IMO - when he wasn't on Veach's radar, he wasn't worth $10 million to this franchise. But once Veach decided he wanted Tyron Mathieu, plan B wasn't even a consideration and he was just going to pay what it took.

Some will applaud that - pick your guy and do what it takes to get him. Okay - but it had better work. It's what I said about Pioli way back when he was dumping over the roster, bringing in Patriot retreads and putting his eggs in the Matt Cassel basket. I thought it was foolish but acknowledged that if he's going to have that kind of tunnel vision - he'd better be right.

I didn’t want Sammy, but it’s hard to consider him an L after what he did when it truly mattered last year.

One could argue that he was well worth the investment based on his game against the Patriots. He was a focal point to getting us back in the game and damn near winning it. He got open and made some clutch catches to help bring us back in a game we should have won...ugh.

I did not like what Veach gave up for Clark, but anyone who has seen him knows he could be a key to this defense becoming respectable. I hate it when analyst say that Clark is a net loss or equal trade compared to Ford. Clark is one of the best rounded DE’s in football. He’s just genuinely good at everything and as seen last season, he’s capable of being an elite pass rusher.

I think Veach overspent bc he knew the time is now. He had extra resources and had to get a difference maker to get us over the top.

We can’t rely solely on a rookie 1st rd player this year after losing Ford and Houston.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

But if that was the proposed compensation in the spring (per the Tweet) then it was still a time the Chiefs could've taken advantage of the discord.

It's not a one-off, is all I'm saying. He has several of these iffy sorts of deals on his register already. I mean that Clark trade/contract is such that he'd BETTER be a top 5 finisher for the DPOY. All the "man, Clark looks pretty good" stuff is kinda strange to me because we just traded for and paid the man as though he's nearly as good as Kalil Mack.

So if he goes out there and provides good run defense and 10-12 sacks, some people are going to say "hey, nice acquisition" whereas I see no way to call that anything but a failure. Brett Veach paid dearly for Frank Clark and if he's not a genuine difference maker, that's another L. Watkins is almost certainly an L; hard for him to do anything that will justify the $30+ million he's going to make in the 2 years of this deal. Hitchens isn't quite set in stone as an L yet because that's probably a 3 year deal with a reasonable possibility for 4 if he bounces back - there's time there.

And I'll ask the same thing I asked on Mathieu when we originally signed him - as much as I like the player, if Mathieu was seeking $10 million/season the year before after AZ cut him and had a solid but not eye opening season in Houston (he was essentially the same player he's always been), where the hell were the Chiefs in 2018 when he was available at $10 million/season and why was he suddenly worth $14 million in 2019? That's that target fixation at work again, IMO - when he wasn't on Veach's radar, he wasn't worth $10 million to this franchise. But once Veach decided he wanted Tyron Mathieu, plan B wasn't even a consideration and he was just going to pay what it took.

Some will applaud that - pick your guy and do what it takes to get him. Okay - but it had better work. It's what I said about Pioli way back when he was dumping over the roster, bringing in Patriot retreads and putting his eggs in the Matt Cassel basket. I thought it was foolish but acknowledged that if he's going to have that kind of tunnel vision - he'd better be right.

I disagree. I’ll just leave it at that.