Avengers (4) Endgame - Spoilers Welcome Thread

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

I don't like that we missed the whole transformation into Prof Hulk... it was just, pow - 5 years later he controls it all now.

Yeah, that was one of my biggest complaints. They did almost nothing to resolve Hulk's refusal to help in the last one, and Banner didn't have the attitude to **** shit up. In essence, we lost Hulk and got a green Banner. That's a miss in my opinion.

[CoMoChief]

Hulk character was a massive disappointment on all levels....almost ruined the movie. It's almost as if the Russo bros don't really give a shit. Hulk was nothing more than a goofy clown who cracked jokes, pulled a couple levers and switches. Wow Good Job Russo Bros.

Same w/ Thor. It was funny at first, but should have ended once he regained Moljnir and had his chat w/ his mother. Once he has Moljnir he strikes down a bolt of lightning and he transforms back into regular Thor that we're all used to seeing. His drunken Lebowski character shouldn't have been dragged on through out the entire movie. Lame.

Bucky should have received Cap's shield. He's been w/ Cap since day 1. He's also an enhanced super soldier while Sam is not.

Needed more fight scenes....movie was too much hangin your head sob shit. The end battle should have been 3x longer than what it was. Movie should have had more run ins w/ their past selves in previous timelines. That would have made the movie much cooler. They did it a little bit, but there should have been more of it..more fight scenes....Cap vs Cap was cool...needed more of that kind of shit. Hulk vs Hulk would have been great to see.

Black Widow killed herself for the good of humanity....no one seemed to care.

This movie could have been a LOT better IMO. But they did make sure to spinkle in some sjw bullshit in there...gay characters, women's empowerment. Not that big of a deal, but it's not really genuine when it's forced like it was. Couldn't make 2 of their biggest characters worth a shit in the final movie, but hey at least we got some sjw sprinkled into the movie! That's what I wanted to see..

[DaFace]

Search for Thanos on Google and click on the gauntlet for some mild laughs.

[Sassy Squatch]

Thanos cosplaying as Shrek was odd.

[BigRichard]

Just got out of the move and here are my thoughts:

Thought it was good but not great. To many plot holes for me to truly love it. Several things have already been mentioned with the time line stuff but doesn't Thor taking Mjolnir completely **** up the timeline? How does Thor use it in the past if he stole it? Maybe I am missing something?

I also hated what they did with the Hulk. Completely neutered him. That is not what we wanted to see with the Hulk. And yes, jumping from the Hulk not wanting to fight to Professor Hulk with nothing else than a simple explanation just plain sucked.

And I believe they did what they did with Loki so they could bring him back which i am perfectly fine with.

Not sure if it has been mentioned but "dusting" Thanos and all of his men completely ****s up the timeline. If they aren't in the past to wreak all the havoc they had that is a huge change to the past.

Didn't like Captain Marvel either, she just seemed forced into the movie. Just seemed weird to me.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by BigRichard

Thought it was good but not great. To many plot holes for me to truly love it. Several things have already been mentioned with the time line stuff but doesn't Thor taking Mjolnir completely **** up the timeline? How does Thor use it in the past if he stole it? Maybe I am missing something?
.

Cap took it with him when he went to return the stones, I believe.

[BigRichard]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Cap took it with him when he went to return the stones, I believe.

That is right, forgot about that. But when Thor took it he didn't know if they would be able to return it. Your statement completes the plot hole for that but would still be a huge knuckle headed thing for Thor to do at the time.

[Valiant]

Originally Posted by BigRichard

That is right, forgot about that. But when Thor took it he didn't know if they would be able to return it. Your statement completes the plot hole for that but would still be a huge knuckle headed thing for Thor to do at the time.

No, they discussed they had to return everything if they won.

[BigRichard]

Originally Posted by Valiant

No, they discussed they had to return everything if they won.

I didn't think that was discussed until the Hulk tried to take the Time Stone but I could be wrong.

[Valiant]

Originally Posted by BigRichard

Just got out of the move and here are my thoughts:

Thought it was good but not great. To many plot holes for me to truly love it. Several things have already been mentioned with the time line stuff but doesn't Thor taking Mjolnir completely **** up the timeline? How does Thor use it in the past if he stole it? Maybe I am missing something?

I also hated what they did with the Hulk. Completely neutered him. That is not what we wanted to see with the Hulk. And yes, jumping from the Hulk not wanting to fight to Professor Hulk with nothing else than a simple explanation just plain sucked.

And I believe they did what they did with Loki so they could bring him back which i am perfectly fine with.

Not sure if it has been mentioned but "dusting" Thanos and all of his men completely ****s up the timeline. If they aren't in the past to wreak all the havoc they had that is a huge change to the past.

Didn't like Captain Marvel either, she just seemed forced into the movie. Just seemed weird to me.

They didn't dust him in the past. They dusted him once on the planet. Then past thanos came through the time machine setting up the reality that is current for the heroes and died there. In their reality he defeated them already. It won't change anything as they didn't alter their past.

[BigRichard]

Originally Posted by Valiant

They didn't dust him in the past. They dusted him once on the planet. Then past thanos came through the time machine setting up the reality that is current for the heroes and died there. In their reality he defeated them already. It won't change anything as they didn't alter their past.

He came from their past though. He came from their 2014 (I think that was the year) and then they dusted him in the present. Anything he would have done between 2014 and their present would have been eliminated. Hell, he would have never been around to dust half of everyone to begin with. After 2014, Thanos would no longer exist. To truly get it right, Tony should have sent everyone back to their time with no memory of what transpired. They still needed Thanos to do bad things or everything would be changed.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by BigRichard

He came from their past though. He came from their 2014 (I think that was the year) and then they dusted him in the present. Anything he would have done between 2014 and their present would have been eliminated. Hell, he would have never been around to dust half of everyone to begin with. After 2014, Thanos would no longer exist. To truly get it right, Tony should have sent everyone back to their time with no memory of what transpired. They still needed Thanos to do bad things or everything would be changed.

Time travel stuff is always messy, and I'm not sure that they really tried to explain it all fully, but...

From my perspective, it's all about multiple timelines. If you consider everything that we've seen thus far in the MCU to be "Timeline A," all of that stuff still happened. When Thanos showed up in the final battle, that created a new "Timeline B" in 2014 in which he never had a chance to gather the stones and basically nothing ever happened. There's a "Timeline C" where Loki got the Tesseract and is still alive. There's a "Timeline D" in which Cap went back to live out life with Carter. All of these timelines exist and were impacted by the results of Endgame, but we're still just watching "Timeline A" in 2018.

The question moving forward is whether they call time travel a "been there, done that" thing or if they decide to keep using it. If they keep using it, then Loki's series could be set just after the events of Avengers (the first one). He wouldn't have grown as a character in the same way we knew it through the later movies. If they don't, it'll be some sort of side story parallel to other events we've seen, or maybe we'll learn that he STILL didn't die in Infinity War after all.

[BigRichard]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Time travel stuff is always messy, and I'm not sure that they really tried to explain it all fully, but...

From my perspective, it's all about multiple timelines. If you consider everything that we've seen thus far in the MCU to be "Timeline A," all of that stuff still happened. When Thanos showed up in the final battle, that created a new "Timeline B" in 2014 in which he never had a chance to gather the stones and basically nothing ever happened. There's a "Timeline C" where Loki got the Tesseract and is still alive. There's a "Timeline D" in which Cap went back to live out life with Carter. All of these timelines exist and were impacted by the results of Endgame, but we're still just watching "Timeline A" in 2018.

The question moving forward is whether they call time travel a "been there, done that" thing or if they decide to keep using it. If they keep using it, then Loki's series could be set just after the events of Avengers (the first one). He wouldn't have grown as a character in the same way we knew it through the later movies. If they don't, it'll be some sort of side story parallel to other events we've seen, or maybe we'll learn that he STILL didn't die in Infinity War after all.

But they even addressed in the movie that they didn't want to alter the timeline. That right there was a huge plot hole for me.

I mean really why even return the stones at all? Some maybe since they affect others but like the Soul Stone would never need to go back. The next person to acquire it would be Thanos and since that is all ****ed anyway why worry about it.

They made the time travel stuff really messy.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Time travel stuff is always messy, and I'm not sure that they really tried to explain it all fully, but...

From my perspective, it's all about multiple timelines. If you consider everything that we've seen thus far in the MCU to be "Timeline A," all of that stuff still happened. When Thanos showed up in the final battle, that created a new "Timeline B" in 2014 in which he never had a chance to gather the stones and basically nothing ever happened. There's a "Timeline C" where Loki got the Tesseract and is still alive. There's a "Timeline D" in which Cap went back to live out life with Carter. All of these timelines exist and were impacted by the results of Endgame, but we're still just watching "Timeline A" in 2018.

The question moving forward is whether they call time travel a "been there, done that" thing or if they decide to keep using it. If they keep using it, then Loki's series could be set just after the events of Avengers (the first one). He wouldn't have grown as a character in the same way we knew it through the later movies. If they don't, it'll be some sort of side story parallel to other events we've seen, or maybe we'll learn that he STILL didn't die in Infinity War after all.

But with Gamora being brought back from a different timeline and inserted into this one, haven't the Avengers effectively defeated mortality? I mean, why can't they go back a bit to a timeline where Stark is still alive, take him out of it and drop him into this one?

I guess I can only come up with a single answer to that one and it's that removing someone FROM a timeline means that timeline would then exist without that person. So for Gamora, that's no big deal because she's not needed in that timeline anymore (and now I guess that timeline has a completely different outcome? One where she's not there to form up the Guardians of the Galaxy at all?).

But for Tony, the only way he'd be relevant in the 'new' timeline is if you took a Tony out that had already gone through the events of the Infinity War and had his kid. So you'd essentially need to scoop one up from right before the major battle and since Strange says there's only 1 outcome where they win, removing him from THAT timeline would serve to wreck it. So what's the point apart from being strictly selfish?

Best answer I can come up with, at least as it relates to Tony - he would effectively have to stay dead either way.

So to make the timeline thing work, you have to kinda understand what The Ancient One was getting at - anything you do for YOUR timeline still creates an alternate timeline where that thing has an impact. If you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul, I guess you leave well enough alone?