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Old 11-21-2018, 08:27 AM  
Mile High Mania Mile High Mania is offline
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NFL MVP... Brees or Mahomes
So, I think the race comes down to these two guys and could honestly support either winning it all. Take away either player and that team is going to suck. One has vastly better stats, one has fewer losses on the season (team stat).

67.5% Completion / 117.9 QBR / 3,628 yards / 37 TD / 10 INT (186 rushing yards / 2 TDs)
76.9% Completion / 126.9 QBR / 2,964 yards / 25 TD / 1 INT (28 rushing yards / 3 TDs)

Both have their teams at the top of their conferences. One is at the end of the road, the other just getting started. Brees has never earned an MVP and is breaking career records left and right.

Are you fine either way... do you feel that Mahomes without question is the MVP over Brees? Maybe this is the ultimate test of "does the leauge really hate KC"?
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Old 11-21-2018, 10:51 AM   #61
milkshock milkshock is offline
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Except 3 of those picks were essentially hail marys. LOL. The Saints have basically never been in a hail mary position all season. Not surprising Brees doesn't have any of those garbage time picks. All Qbs have those. Rodgers/Manning/Brady. Not sure why Mahomes is getting penalized for that.

And even if all 10 were poor in-game decisions, 10 ints is still ridiculously low for someone who leads the league in passing yards. Go look up the passing yardage kings all these years. Almost no one has fewer ints than Mahomes does.

As far as completion percentage, yes Brees is killing it but Mahomes isn't shabby himself at almost 68%. Considering Brees has 60 plus fewer passing attempts, of course, his completion percentage will be inflated. That's basically equivalent to Mahomes having to play almost 2 more games than Brees. So, of course, Mahomes percentage will be hurt because of variance and Brees percentage will be better.

Ironically I am of the mindset that the lifetime award aspect of this conversation actually hurts Brees here. If Brees never winning an MVP is weighted into this conversation then I am weighing the fact that Mahomes is essentially a rookie vs Brees and of course because of that it's way easier for Brees to do what he's doing after 15 whatever years of experience than it is for Mahomes to be doing this. I don't buy the, "he's young, he'll have other chances...." MVP years are specifically designed to recognize abnormal playing years. Mahomes year is 10x more abnormal considering Mahomes age and experience than Brees not throwing picks as a 15-year vet.

Look at Cam Newton/Rodgers/Matt Ryan/ none of them had a year quite like their MVP seasons. There is no evidence Mahomes will catch lightning in a bottle again. Defenses were not planning for Mahomes until well after his 14-0 TD to int ratio start. If I was voting no way I vote Brees.
yes another interesting stat is that Mahomes has thrown no picks in 5 of the 11 games, which supports the idea that a lot of the picks were hail mary's/garbage time INT's.
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Old 11-21-2018, 10:51 AM   #62
Imon Yourside Imon Yourside is offline
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I don't care and neither does Pat, SB champs or bust. Learn some clock management and git gud.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:04 AM   #63
ChiefBlueCFC ChiefBlueCFC is offline
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Gotta say: really don't care if Mahomes gets MVP. Obviously, it would be cool if Mahomes won MVP and we got the recognition deserved but I'd rather just win in Jan and Feb.

But if I had to pick, I'd say Brees, but its basically a coin-flip.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:04 AM   #64
Mile High Mania Mile High Mania is offline
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Originally Posted by milkshock View Post
yes another interesting stat is that Mahomes has thrown no picks in 5 of the 11 games, which supports the idea that a lot of the picks were hail mary's/garbage time INT's.
Jags game he threw two, one in the 1st half and one in the 4th.
Pats game he threw two, both in the first half.
CIN game he threw one in the 3rd.
DEN game he threw one in the 4th.
CLE game he threw one in the first half.

So, I don't know if you can say they were all hail mary's/garbage time. It's not terrible by any means, QBs throw INTs.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:13 AM   #65
Imon Yourside Imon Yourside is offline
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Originally Posted by Mile High Mania View Post
Jags game he threw two, one in the 1st half and one in the 4th.
Pats game he threw two, both in the first half.
CIN game he threw one in the 3rd.
DEN game he threw one in the 4th.
CLE game he threw one in the first half.

So, I don't know if you can say they were all hail mary's/garbage time. It's not terrible by any means, QBs throw INTs.
Cleveland game was a half ending hail mary, the two in the Jags games were one a great defensive play and 2 a miscommunication with his receiver. Pats game the 2 were painful and one was just a bait job. Bengals game he was just being greedy. Denver game was a legit pick i think, I don't remember that one. Rams game the one of the helmet was a head scratcher, the 2nd he was hit as he threw but still a horrible playcall, last one was a hail mary basically with 15 secs left from our own 25.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:25 AM   #66
BigCatDaddy BigCatDaddy is offline
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Guy is on pace for 53 TDs and 5200 yards and might not get MVP. Thats crazy to me.
If he gets 5000 yards and 50 TDs he should definitely win..May not, but should.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:26 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Mile High Mania View Post
Jags game he threw two, one in the 1st half and one in the 4th.
Pats game he threw two, both in the first half.
CIN game he threw one in the 3rd.
DEN game he threw one in the 4th.
CLE game he threw one in the first half.

So, I don't know if you can say they were all hail mary's/garbage time. It's not terrible by any means, QBs throw INTs.
A 23 year old QB who hasn't played 16 games has thrown 37 TD's and damn near 4k yards.......

LET THAT SINK IN
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:29 AM   #68
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I know I’m biased but Mahomes is having the more impressive season. Completion % is great an all, but I think its as much the function of the system as it is a reflection of Brees’ ability. I mean, the completion % record once belonged to Sam Bradford. No one is gonna argue that he is a HOF’er. Just compare the Qb’s who lead the league in completion % to those who have thrown the most TD’s. The TD list is comprised of franchise QB’s, while the completion list is more of a mixed bag. Put it this way, the Saints offense wouldn’t be much different with Alex Smith at QB, and Alex’s stats wouldn’t be much different from Brees’ in the Saints system. While Mahomes has already exceeded Alex’s production in Andy’s system in just 11 games.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:31 AM   #69
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If he breaks to record he gets it unless brees collapses.

If brees keeps pace it is his.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:31 AM   #70
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If Scandrick catches that INT and Mahomes finishes that game with 1 INT and a win, Mahomes has the edge.

Because Scandrick sucks ass, those INT's are going to kill Mahomes chances... regardless of the scenario in which they happened.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:33 AM   #71
bowener bowener is offline
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I'm glad the Todd Gurley for MVP talk has subsided.

This is down to 3 candidates IMHO.

Patrick Mahomes OPOY
Drew Brees MVP
Andrew Luck Comeback Player of the Year

I think the next month separates them.
That is how I see it ending up.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:34 AM   #72
Imon Yourside Imon Yourside is offline
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Originally Posted by Molitoth View Post
If Scandrick catches that INT and Mahomes finishes that game with 1 INT and a win, Mahomes has the edge.

Because Scandrick sucks ass, those INT's are going to kill Mahomes chances... regardless of the scenario in which they happened.
Makes me wish we had thrown some picks out there for PP before the trade deadline.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:43 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Molitoth View Post
If Scandrick catches that INT and Mahomes finishes that game with 1 INT and a win, Mahomes has the edge.

Because Scandrick sucks ass, those INT's are going to kill Mahomes chances... regardless of the scenario in which they happened.
Yep. And to be clear - SCANDRICK DOES INDEED SUCKS ASS.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:44 AM   #74
Graystoke Graystoke is offline
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Brees has the upper hand on this. He is indeed having a hell of a year.
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Old 11-21-2018, 11:46 AM   #75
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Worthless award. If he throws 50 tds and doesn't get it, thats just plain stupid.
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