2018 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018




Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen.

Outfielders:
Dexter Fowler
Tommy Pham
Marcell Ozuna

Infielders:
Matt Carpenter
Paul DeJong
Kolten Wong

Catchers:
Yadier Molina
Francisco Pena

Utility:
Jose Martinez
Greg Garcia
Yairo Munoz
Jedd Gyrko

Starters:
Carlos Martinez
Michael Wacha
Luke Weaver
Miles Mikolas
Jack Flaherty

Relievers:
Dominic Leone
Tyler Lyons
Bud Norris
Brett Cecil
Sam Tuivailala
Matt Bowman
Jordan Hicks
Mike Mayers

On the DL:
Adam Wainwright
Luke Gregerson

[kcpasco]

.500 on the season. Perfectly balanced as all things should be.

[Frazod]

Apparently my merely considering turning on the game is enough to doom them.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by kcpasco

.500 on the season. Perfectly balanced as all things should be.

[bdj23]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Apparently my merely considering turning on the game is enough to doom them.

I turned it on, saw ponce was being taken out and turned it back off.

My bad guys

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'd like to see Hicks jam a lit cherry bomb up Norris' ass for that performance.

Schildt ****ing butchered that inning, too. There is no more braindead managerial philosophy than "it was his game either way." If he was pitching well and they were getting bullshit hits like the 2010-2014 Giants, than sure, leave him in, but when he's getting ****ing rocked by every batter you can't just leave him in there to lose the game.

I don't know how a baseball lifer can sit on his ass for an inning like that unless he's just as big of a strategic clod as the mong he replaced.

DeWitt needs to drop a neutron bomb in this organization in the offseason.

[jd1020]

Maybe the Cardinals could buy low on Gary Sanchez. He's been complete shit this year and ****ed up big time tonight.

Give them Carlos Martinez and Kelly and package Sanchez with some of their prospects.

Send Sanchez to the minors and let Molina work with him in the off season or work him at first base, which the Yankees have already done a little bit of.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

am I supposed to know who Bud Smith is?

Seriously?

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I'd like to see Hicks jam a lit cherry bomb up Norris' ass for that performance.

Schildt ****ing butchered that inning, too. There is no more braindead managerial philosophy than "it was his game either way." If he was pitching well and they were getting bullshit hits like the 2010-2014 Giants, than sure, leave him in, but when he's getting ****ing rocked by every batter you can't just leave him in there to lose the game.

I don't know how a baseball lifer can sit on his ass for an inning like that unless he's just as big of a strategic clod as the mong he replaced

Although I agree that it was obvious even to a layman like me that Holland didn't have it tonight. They were solid hits. Who do you put in? Thats the core of whats going on with out bullpen. We have one reliable pitcher out of 7.


In the few games since Meathead was fired, Schildt has been better at managing the pitching, and the bullpen way better than Meathead. I know thats a low low bar to clear but its still an improvement.

We should know by the end of the season whether he's the "most impressive new manager" as Ron Darling says or he's just Meathead II.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

DeWitt needs to drop a neutron bomb in this organization in the offseason.

I disagree with this approach. We don't need to go full Astros and Cubs and purposely tank for 3-4 years, lose 100 games each year to get to the top of the draft.

I think we can all agree that we have enough pitching to not blow this up. So why blow it up for just offense?

We need a good manager. 2 impact bats and we can realistically complete in the payoffs.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I think we can all agree that we have enough pitching to not blow this up. So why blow it up for just offense?

We need a good manager. 2 impact bats and we can realistically complete in the payoffs.

You need a whole new bullpen and at least 3 or 4 new starting position players.

The only way you are getting 2 impact bats is if you blow it up and sell your few good pieces or Ozuna and O'Neill suddenly develop the ability to hit MLB pitching.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Although I agree that it was obvious even to a layman like me that Holland didn't have it tonight. They were solid hits. Who do you put in? Thats the core of whats going on with out bullpen. We have one reliable pitcher out of 7.


In the few games since Meathead was fired, Schildt has been better at managing the pitching, and the bullpen way better than Meathead. I know thats a low low bar to clear but its still an improvement.

We should know by the end of the season whether he's the "most impressive new manager" as Ron Darling says or he's just Meathead II.

I disagree with this approach. We don't need to go full Astros and Cubs and purposely tank for 3-4 years, lose 100 games each year to get to the top of the draft.

I think we can all agree that we have enough pitching to not blow this up. So why blow it up for just offense?

We need a good manager. 2 impact bats and we can realistically complete in the payoffs.

They don't need to tank. They do need to fire Mozeliak and Girsch, as well as the entire big league coaching staff, save for Budaska, and maybe Warner and Marmol. The trainers and medical staff all need to be gone, too. The entire organizational philosophy regarding the health of the player needs to be re-evaluated.

There is one usable piece in the bullpen for next year: Hicks. Tui, Brebbia, and Mayers are all just above replacement level. I guess you can have them in the pen, but they aren't adding much value. Everyone else should be cut.

OF: Ozuna has been unlucky this year if you look at his exit velocity, but even then he projects to be someone about 10% better than league average and his defense has gotten worse for three straight years. He's probably only a 2-win player. They should have moved the pieces for Yelich, but Mozeliak is incompetent. Fowler needs to be cut ASAP. Bader is due some negative regression, but his defense makes him valuable. You hope that Pham's struggles in May and June were actually due to his hands not being in the slot when hitting, but I have no faith in the training staff to not misdiagnose and/or lie about what his issues are. O'Neill is always going to strike out 200 times a year, but if he can manage a 10% BB rate, it's palatable with his power.

IF: Gyorko's defense has been really bad lately, and he's not getting consistent ABs. His contact quality has been poor this year, which points to a decline in his power, and thus, his value as a player. Munoz is an atrocity on defense, and he should only be hitting about .240 with a .380 slugging percentage. At this point, he's nothing more than a bench utility player, just like Garcia. Martinez should be in the AL. Wong is Wong, a good defender who can't hit. He hasn't been unlucky this year. He's just a bad hitter and he always will be. Carp is playing like an MVP candidate, but he's 32.

SP: Flaherty has looked good but not great. Weaver has looked like a back-of-the-rotation guy. Hudson will never miss enough bats to be anything more than a #4-#5 starter. Martinez's year was derailed by his lat and oblique injuries, but someone with his stuff should be striking out more guys than he does (and this has always been the case). You can't count on Alex Reyes for anything at this point. Gant and Poncedeleon are #5 starter types. Maybe Gomber is a #4 b/c he's left-handed and can miss bats, but he's probably a #5, too.

Mozeliak basically turned this team into the St. Louis Truefans: a mediocre team with a few guys with talent that delude fans into thinking, "what if?"

There is no, "what if?" They need to start going after dollars instead of stacking together dimes and quarters.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I disagree with this approach. We don't need to go full Astros and Cubs and purposely tank for 3-4 years, lose 100 games each year to get to the top of the draft.

I think we can all agree that we have enough pitching to not blow this up. So why blow it up for just offense?

We need a good manager. 2 impact bats and we can realistically complete in the payoffs.

This team is much further away than you realize.

Look at the genuinely good teams in the league and compare them to ours. It isn't a question of getting back to 86-88 wins and sniffing for a wild card (that might be doable). It's a question of running with 3-4 genuine 100 win caliber squads in baseball right now. We're in an era of genuine superteams in Houston and Boston with that kind of ceiling for NYY, Chicago and LAD (especially if they can get some pitching).

When you say "we have the pitching to hang..." you sound like a Mets fan. There are still a few die-hards who believe the Mets should be pushing in to build a team around DeGrom and Syndergaard and that Matz/Wheeler will come into their talent and be genuine top of the rotation pitchers any day now.

Okay - lets say that all happens: the Mets will still suck. Now don't get me wrong, the Mets are the extreme version, but they also have 2 pitchers that I'd take over anyone on this roster (contract status excluded), especially if I were in a win now kind of mode.

The Cardinals probably have the pitching depth in the organization to tread water - yes. With a few breaks here and there, perhaps they can challenge 88 wins in '19. But Carpenter's not going to hit forever nor is Molina. Those are pretty much the sole offensive bright spots on the squad. DeJong has come back as the version of himself that I was worried we'd get all season. Wong...well I'm not the right person to talk to about Wong, he'd start on any team I build because he's a premier defensive player at a key defensive position. It's not his fault the guys that are getting paid to hit...can't.

Gyorko probably needs to be dealt again after we mind-****ed him (same thing happened to him in SD). The OF is a goddamn trainwreck for a myriad of reasons and the only person likely to provide immediate help is O'Neill, who's flaws are well established.

Don't ask yourself what we need to add to win a wild card - ask yourself what we need to add for the WC to matter. The bottom line is that it's just not doable in a single season and probably not over 2. I like the work Flores is doing a lot in the draft but we're 3+ years away from that being relevant.

The Astros had a young team that was close to getting over the hump - they added Verlander and tried to add Britton until the Orioles Orioled. It won them a championship and then they added Cole. Meanwhile the Cardinals won 100 games and also had another flag for the taking - they added Brandon ****ing Moss. And if they won a championship you can bet your ass they wouldn't go after the best young available SP in baseball the following offseason; that's too aggressive. Mozeliak is a pussy who doesn't have the chops to hang in a division with a guy who earned his stripes in the cut-throat AL East and a bold young executive in Milwaukee who learned under Luhnow.

I'd fire Mozeliak the moment the season is over (but I'd make him fire Girsch first just to be a dick; seriously, what a ****ing joke that whole thing is). Then I'd survey potential GM candidates and if I could manage it, I'd hire one that can work with Flores. If not, I'd grudgingly let Flores go for the right GM.

But the whole damn team is stale and needs a change.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

They don't need to tank. They do need to fire Mozeliak and Girsch, as well as the entire big league coaching staff, save for Budaska, and maybe Warner and Marmol. The trainers and medical staff all need to be gone, too. The entire organizational philosophy regarding the health of the player needs to be re-evaluated.

Agreed except for Oquendo. The medical staff can be charitably called incompetent.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

There is one usable piece in the bullpen for next year: Hicks. Tui, Brebbia, and Mayers are all just above replacement level. I guess you can have them in the pen, but they aren't adding much value. Everyone else should be cut.

Agree

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

SP: Flaherty has looked good but not great. Weaver has looked like a back-of-the-rotation guy. Hudson will never miss enough bats to be anything more than a #4-#5 starter. Martinez's year was derailed by his lat and oblique injuries, but someone with his stuff should be striking out more guys than he does (and this has always been the case). You can't count on Alex Reyes for anything at this point. Gant and Poncedeleon are #5 starter types. Maybe Gomber is a #4 b/c he's left-handed and can miss bats, but he's probably a #5, too.

Still disagree on the upside of Flaherty. I see the same motion and arm slot with the slider and fastball that will only get better. Thats going to miss bats and not allow hitters to center the ball.


Reyes injuries are a red flag. But, if healthy, still top shelf talent.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Mozeliak basically turned this team into the St. Louis Truefans: a mediocre team with a few guys with talent that delude fans into thinking, "what if?"

There is no, "what if?" They need to start going after dollars instead of stacking together dimes and quarters.

Agreed. They need to drop this we just need a better reliever and we can compete for the wild card mentality.


I think part of this is a result of 2006/2011. Just get into the tournament and you have a chance. Which is true. But............. do you want a realistic chance to win it all or just count on a lot of luck?

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

This team is much further away than you realize.

I'm coming around to that realization. You see the talent on other contenders..... we are not even close.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

But the whole damn team is stale and needs a change.

Totally agree

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'd fire Mozeliak the moment the season is over (but I'd make him fire Girsch first just to be a dick; seriously, what a ****ing joke that whole thing is). Then I'd survey potential GM candidates and if I could manage it, I'd hire one that can work with Flores. If not, I'd grudgingly let Flores go for the right GM

I just dont see Dewitt firing Mo this off season. Thats just not his style to totally clean house immediately. I didnt think he'd fire Meathead mid-season so hopefully I'm wrong on this one too.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

The roster is garbage, BRC. Mo must go...

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

The roster is garbage, BRC. Mo must go...

Since when have I said to keep Mo this year? I've just said Dewitt is not pulling the trigger.

FTR, I think the whole FO needs to be fired this off season. New GM hires the new manager.