Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

My as well get it started. Here's my "Matheny" lineup.....

Fowler CF
Diaz SS
Carpenter 1B
Piscotty RF
Grichuk LF
Molina C
Peralta 3B
Wong 2B
Pitcher

My "Matheny" Starting rotation

Martinez
Reyes
Wainwright
Lynn
Leake

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

I'd love to see the O'Neil kid they traded Marco for get some time in the big club too.

You've seen him for three years, already. His name is Randal Grichuk.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

You've seen him for three years, already. His name is Randal Grichuk.

O'Niell draws more walks, Grichuk's probably better defender.

But yeah, we're talking marginal distinctions here. Just another of a similar mold of odd fitting players in this system.

I can't figure out at all what they're trying to do at this point but whatever it is, it isn't working.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

O'Niell draws more walks, Grichuk's probably better defender.

But yeah, we're talking marginal distinctions here. Just another of a similar mold of odd fitting players in this system.

I can't figure out at all what they're trying to do at this point but whatever it is, it isn't working.

He's loading up on two/three outcome players.

That's what Carpenter has turned into, that's what Grichuk has always been, that's what Bader is, that's what O'Neill is.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

He's loading up on two/three outcome players.

That's what Carpenter has turned into, that's what Grichuk has always been, that's what Bader is, that's what O'Neill is.

It'd be nice if any of them could play a defensive position well. Or at least more than LF/RF. Because so far I see a bunch of fringy CFers who profile best in the corners, guys like DeJong that are playing at least 2 spots too high up the defensive spectrum or guys like Carpenter who shouldn't be playing defense in any capacity.

[Miles]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'd love to see Fowler never wear the uniform again.

The Cardinals have nothing but outfielders, starting pitchers and lefthhanded relievers in their system and over the last two years they've burned $195 million on a replacement level OFer and lefty reliever and an average starting pitcher.

And that got John Mozeliak a !@#$ing promotion. I'd give anything to have a job in that organization. If you look good on camera and speak without saying anything, you have a job for life. Do a bad enough job and you'll get promoted.

It's incredible how bad a job John Mozeliak has done over the last 3 years. Just absolute dogshit.

Other brutal thing on his recent watch is forefeiting the ****ing first 3 round picks in the 2017 draft.

Hoping the team dumps off obvious guys like Oh at the deadline but getting that nothing going to happen feeling from only being 4 games out even though no chance in hell to overtake brewers and cubs.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It'd be nice if any of them could play a defensive position well. Or at least more than LF/RF. Because so far I see a bunch of fringy CFers who profile best in the corners, guys like DeJong that are playing at least 2 spots too high up the defensive spectrum or guys like Carpenter who shouldn't be playing defense in any capacity.

When was the last time we had anything but a fringe CFer, Edmonds?

Fowler has been a disappointment. I was prepared for a regression, but it has been worse than I expected defensively.

DeJong has looked better than I expected. I thought it might be Gyorko bad there. Small sample size, but his close to average play just reinforces how bad it had become the last two years.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Miles

Other brutal thing on his recent watch is forefeiting the ****ing first 3 round picks in the 2017 draft.

Hoping the team dumps off obvious guys like Oh at the deadline but getting that nothing going to happen feeling from only being 4 games out even though no chance in hell to overtake brewers and cubs.

They really need to trade Lynn as well, b/c they need to restock the system with multiple young players instead of just recouping a single pick when he turns down his QO.

They waited too long to pull the trigger on Carpenter, and now the Red Sox have short and long-term solutions at the corners.

Oh, Lynn, Rosenthal, Carpenter should all be spun off. That's enough to restock the system.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Miles

Other brutal thing on his recent watch is forefeiting the ****ing first 3 round picks in the 2017 draft.

Hoping the team dumps off obvious guys like Oh at the deadline but getting that nothing going to happen feeling from only being 4 games out even though no chance in hell to overtake brewers and cubs.

Goold says he does not think the Cardinals are interested in trading Lynn anymore.

Because of course they aren't.

Mozeliak sees the kids on this team pushing the team to wins and thinks "well clearly that means I have to hold onto my veterans and make a playoff push..."

As though the veterans are winning shit for this squad.

Trade every single person on this roster older than 28 and you'd have ONE guy lost that actually stings - Tommy Pham. The rest could easily be replaced by minor league reinforcements and we wouldn't be any worse off.

C - Carson Kelly
1b - Luke Voit
2b - Kolten Wong
SS - Paul DeJong
3b - Jedd Gyorko
LF - Grichuk
CF - Sierra
RF - Piscotty/Bader

SP1 - Martinez
SP2 - Wacha
SP3 - Weaver
SP4 - Flaherty
SP5 - Gant

CL - Rosenthal
RH - Tuivialala
RH - Matt Bowman
RH - John Brebbia
RH - Mike Mayers
LH - Kevin Siegrist (Lyons is better but 29)
LH - Ryan Sheriff

B1 - Bader
B2 - Diaz
B3 - Garcia
B4 - Wisdom
B5 -

Shit. I'm wrong. We don't have a backup catcher under the age of 28 who's as good as Eric Fryer. Then again, it is Eric Fryer we're talking about here so surely Andrew Knizner could come up from Springfield and never get a hit while not embarrassing himself defensively.

This team is maybe 5 games worse than the shit-show we run out there nightly. Maybe. It could just as easily be 5 games better. It's too RH heavy so that's a bit of an issue. At some point when Mozeliak kept acquiring the same type of player, he forgot to find any of them that hit lefthanded.

The bottom line is that there's no reason not to sell off - apart from Pham, the team wouldn't be any worse anyway. Or at least not enough to matter; it would go from an also-ran to a slightly worse also-ran. It wouldn't suddenly be a 100 loss club or anything. Carson Kelly might actually wee himself at some point without Molina around but otherwise we'd be just fine.

Mozeliak ****ing sucks at his job.

[Miles]

Could understand not trading Lynn if offers are crap but not even considering...

[O.city]

So is DeJong for real?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by O.city

So is DeJong for real?

-ish.

His walk rate has dropped at every level. It's really pitiful. Couple that with a high K rate, and once his BABIP drops the 40 or so points it should and the league gets the book on him, he's probably closer to a .240/.270/.500 guy.

Who does that sound like?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

FWIW, I'm starting to wonder if the next area of surplus value in baseball is going to be batting average and putting the ball in play.

Carpenter was on third with one out (because Pham got caught in a run down after a single, because Cardinals baserunning), and then DeJong and Gyorko failed to drive him in. In a game you trail 4-2 in the third, that's a significant shortcoming.

Hitters have to be able to adapt to the situation. At this point, baseball hitting philosophy has almost changed to a long drive competition. Scratching across those annoying runs by shortening your swing to protect yourself and altering your hitting philosophy based on the situation makes a huge difference over the course of a season, and it's not giving up outs like a mother****ing bunt.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

So is DeJong for real?

No. He's a less defensively capable version of Trevor Story but without Coors Field to boost him up.

His strike zone management is the worst I've seen in baseball this year. Miss in the zone and he'll kill it. Throw it wide and he'll swing and miss.

He's a bench bat for use against spotty middle relievers in the long term unless he learns the zone. I'll be STUNNED if he develops significantly in that regard. It's just soooooo bad.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

-ish.

His walk rate has dropped at every level. It's really pitiful. Couple that with a high K rate, and once his BABIP drops the 40 or so points it should and the league gets the book on him, he's probably closer to a .240/.270/.500 guy.

Who does that sound like?

I don't think he has .260 ISO raw power. That's truly elite.

I'm thinking .245/.260/.450. He'll fight to stay at/near a .725 OPS.

Hands are better than Diaz's but Diaz has a better arm and more range to his right, IMO.

[Rams Fan]

Getting tired of this tease of a team.

They might've swept of the Rockies, but that does nothing for the big picture nor does it significantly improve the Cardinals chances at winning the WS this year.

Worst thing Mo could do, IMO, would be to add only short term improvements(aka acquiring a reliever). I wouldn't like it, but I'd accept him doing jack shit and just riding out Lynn for the season.