****OFFICIAL NBA Regular Season Thread****

[dirk digler]

Let's get it on... finally

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I was watching the game. He was doubled and would have had to take a contested shot if he chose to take it.

As a Lakers fan, i hope James passes it to Haslem ALL the time in then. Like i said, if you ask every coach, he will tell you the same damned thing. One thing you hear all the time is, whatever happens, try not to let the big dawgs take the shot. Make him pass. lol

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Fruit Ninja

As a Lakers fan, i hope James passes it to Haslem ALL the time in then. Like i said, if you ask every coach, he will tell you the same damned thing. One thing you hear all the time is, whatever happens, try not to let the big dawgs take the shot. Make him pass. lol

LeBron has been very poor making contested shots in buzzer beater situations, so that makes little sense. Especially when it's Bosh that will be in that situation instead of Haslem in the future.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Don't be absurd. 30 games of subpar performance doesn't prove he can't hit a wide-open 15 foot jump shot that he's made throughout his career with regularity.

It doesn't mean that he can't, it just means that chances are that with the way he's been shooting the basketball this season, he's probably going to miss.

Once again, not "wide open". Watch the play. It's a rushed, awkward looking shot with a hand in his face.

I'm arguing that LeBron made the right basketball play, which should be obvious for anybody that actually understands the game or isn't out to just criticize LeBron whenever they can.

Drop the holier than thou bullshit. That's got to be the 10th time in three pages you've spouted some form of "If you think it was a bad play, you don't understand basketball" rhetoric. It's not helping your argument at all.

Let's put it in simple terms for you:

Michael Jordan passing out of a double team to Steve Kerr, the most accurate 3-point shooter in NBA history = good basketball play.

LeBron James passing out of a double team to Udonis Haslem, a declining big man who is shooting 39% from the particular place on the floor where he received the ball = dumb basketball play.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

It doesn't mean that he can't, it just means that chances are that with the way he's been shooting the basketball this season, he's probably going to miss.

He's probably going to miss a wide open jump shot, you say?

This isn't college basketball. These guys actually make their shots when they're open regularly. His percentages this season only show what he's done overall, they don't show what he's done with nobody contesting him.

Once again, not "wide open". Watch the play. It's a rushed, awkward looking shot with a hand in his face.

If it was rushed, it's only because he made it that way. He had time to set up and make that shot with nobody on him at all. The defense had shifted fully over to James.

Drop the holier than thou bullshit. That's got to be the 10th time in three pages you've spouted some form of "If you think it was a bad play, you don't understand basketball" rhetoric. It's not helping your argument at all.

I'm sorry, but what you're doing (criticizing a player for making an effective pass out of a double team) is so petty that I can only conclude that you really don't understand what you're talking about.

LeBron James passing out of a double team to Udonis Haslem, a declining big man who is shooting 39% from the particular place on the floor where he received the ball = dumb basketball play.

#1. 36 games this season doesn't prove Udonis Haslem is declining. His stats in past years were right along his career averages. Though even a declining Udonis Haslem should be expected to make such a shot, anyway.
#2. 36 games is a meaninglessly small sample size when compared to his entire career of successfully making that shot.
#3. That particular statistic, 39%, doesn't tell you anything about what he does on shots where he isn't contested at all (like he was on that play).
#4. Passing to a wide open NBA player with a history of making open 15 foot jump shots is not a dumb basketball play, it's the right basketball play. It's the kind of play that LeBron James makes successfully several times a game every night because of his passing ability and court vision.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

He's probably going to miss a wide open jump shot, you say?

This isn't college basketball. These guys actually make their shots when they're open regularly. His percentages this season only show what he's done overall, they don't show what he's done with nobody contesting him.

You don't figure that Haslem gets his fair share of uncontested shots with LeBron/Wade/Bosh on the court with him?

If it was rushed, it's only because he made it that way. He had time to set up and make that shot with nobody on him at all. The defense had shifted fully over to James.

Apparently, you need to watch the play again. Devin Harris is moving toward him as soon as he gets the pass. He still gets a hand in his face despite Haslem rushing the shot. Do you know what "wide open" means?

1. 36 games this season doesn't prove Udonis Haslem is declining. His stats in past years were right along his career averages. Though even a declining Udonis Haslem should be expected to make such a shot, anyway.
#2. 36 games is a meaninglessly small sample size when compared to his entire career of successfully making that shot.
#3. That particular statistic, 39%, doesn't tell you anything about what he does on shots where he isn't contested at all (like he was on that play).
#4. Passing to a wide open NBA player with a history of making open 15 foot jump shots is not a dumb basketball play, it's the right basketball play. It's the kind of play that LeBron James makes successfully several times a game every night because of his passing ability and court vision.

#1-2: What he's done this year tells us more than looking at what he did last year, or two or three years ago. He's older, his skills have eroded. He simply isn't making that shot, or any other shot, with the same consistency he used to. The stats bear that out and I've seen the Heat enough this season to see it with my own eyes.

#3: The shot was somewhat contested. He had a guy lunging at him and putting a hand up. It wasn't "wide open".

#4: Once again, I must say that I don't think these words mean what you think they mean. You keep saying "wide open" and "uncontested", but these simply aren't true.

Here's where I'll somewhat agree with you. In general, a basketball player passing out of a double team is a smart play. Meaning, if I was coaching a youth basketball team, I'd tell them to do that. If LeBron did that in the second quarter, I wouldn't care, because even though Haslem is likely to miss, there's still plenty of time to make up for it.

But it isn't that black and white. Everything is situational. Last play of the game? That play isn't OK. It's not OK to force a struggling shooter who is producing mediocre at best results this season to take the last shot of the game, the last attempt your team has to win, when you have been on fire for the last 12 minutes.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

You don't figure that Haslem gets his fair share of uncontested shots with LeBron/Wade/Bosh on the court with him?

Few would have been as wide open as that was.

Apparently, you need to watch the play again. Devin Harris is moving toward him as soon as he gets the pass. He still gets a hand in his face despite Haslem rushing the shot. Do you know what "wide open" means?

I've seen the play. Nobody was near him as his man left him off the screen. Harris' late lunge should have had no effect on his open shot.

#1-2: What he's done this year tells us more than looking at what he did last year, or two or three years ago. He's older, his skills have eroded. He simply isn't making that shot, or any other shot, with the same consistency he used to. The stats bear that out and I've seen the Heat enough this season to see it with my own eyes.

What he's done over 30+ games this season doesn't tell us more than an entire career of success. His struggles this year could be the result of little more than a shooting slump. Impossible to say until we have more information. Regardless, that's still a shot that a "declining" Haslem should make.

Here's where I'll somewhat agree with you. In general, a basketball player passing out of a double team is a smart play. Meaning, if I was coaching a youth basketball team, I'd tell them to do that. If LeBron did that in the second quarter, I wouldn't care, because even though Haslem is likely to miss, there's still plenty of time to make up for it.

But it isn't that black and white. Everything is situational. Last play of the game? That play isn't OK. It's not OK to force a struggling shooter who is producing mediocre at best results this season to take the last shot of the game, the last attempt your team has to win, when you have been on fire for the last 12 minutes.

If it's the right play earlier in the game, it's the right play at the end of the game. If LeBron starts changing the way he plays at the end of the game to fit other people's definitions of greatness or clutchness, that will only lead to getting him out of his comfort zone, more failure, and more mistakes.

Haslem knew when he screened that there was a possibility he'd get the ball back like he has so many other times with LeBron. And yet he missed the shot regardless. I'm still failing to understand why LeBron deserves criticism for being an unselfish basketball player and a great passer. Those are two of the attributes that make him one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

[kcxiv]

Keep passing right there then lebron. Do it everytime lol. Especially in the play offset. Do the right thing. Defer

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Few would have been as wide open as that was.

That term does not mean what you think it means. I'm now completely convinced.

I've seen the play. Nobody was near him as his man left him off the screen. Harris' late lunge should have had no effect on his open shot.

Nobody is near him when his man left him, but once the ball is passed Harris is moving toward him. Once he catches and rises to shoot, Harris is about two feet away and also jumping with his hand in the air to contest the shot. Let me repeat that, TO CONTEST THE SHOT. That would eliminate any possibility of this shot being "uncontested", or of Haslem being "wide open". Haslem isn't a good offensive player right now. Statistics don't lie. Statistics tell you that exactly what happened was more than likely to happen. He's only shooting 39% from that spot. That tells you he's probably going to miss and, what do you know, he missed. LeBron was 9 of his last 10. Why do I have to keep explaining this? WHY DO YOU KEEP ARGUING THINGS THAT MAKE PERFECTLY LOGICAL SENSE?!

What he's done over 30+ games this season doesn't tell us more than an entire career of success. His struggles this year could be the result of little more than a shooting slump. Impossible to say until we have more information. Regardless, that's still a shot that a "declining" Haslem should make.

Why is this concept so hard for you to grasp? This is professional sports. Players fall off the face of the earth in every sport on a yearly basis. Ladanian Tomlinson went from being a Pro Bowler to a fringe player in one season. Larry Johnson did the same. Haslem was a solid player in the past, but he's not now. Whether it's regression or just a long slump, he's not playing well right now and shouldn't be put in the position to take that shot.

If it's the right play earlier in the game, it's the right play at the end of the game. If LeBron starts changing the way he plays at the end of the game to fit other people's definitions of greatness or clutchness, that will only lead to getting him out of his comfort zone, more failure, and more mistakes.

You don't get it. The only change LeBron made in his game was passing to Haslem on the last play. Throughout the fourth quarter LeBron was doing exactly what he should have done at the end - taking over the game. Taking on double teams, getting to the basket, making jumpers.

[KC native]

I don't give a shit about what's going on in this thread, just wanted to say while I'm drunk

GO SPURS GO

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

That term does not mean what you think it means. I'm now completely convinced.

Oh, I'm quite sure that you are. I'm also quite sure that you're wrong.

Nobody is near him when his man left him, but once the ball is passed Harris is moving toward him. Once he catches and rises to shoot, Harris is about two feet away and also jumping with his hand in the air to contest the shot. Let me repeat that, TO CONTEST THE SHOT. That would eliminate any possibility of this shot being "uncontested", or of Haslem being "wide open".

That shot was basically as wide open as it gets. If Harris' late lunge at him had any effect on him at all, it shouldn't have. The shot wasn't contested by any real definition of the term.

Haslem isn't a good offensive player right now. Statistics don't lie. Statistics tell you that exactly what happened was more than likely to happen. He's only shooting 39% from that spot. That tells you he's probably going to miss and, what do you know, he missed.

A statistic from only 30+ games doesn't really tell me much about anything, especially when it doesn't differentiate between a wide open jump shot and a contested one.

Why do I have to keep explaining this? WHY DO YOU KEEP ARGUING THINGS THAT MAKE PERFECTLY LOGICAL SENSE?!

The question here is why exactly you continue to argue against what was a perfectly sound basketball play and decision by LeBron James. I can only conclude that you don't understand the game or that you hate James enough to criticize him for something that was actually the right play.

Why is this concept so hard for you to grasp? This is professional sports. Players fall off the face of the earth in every sport on a yearly basis. Ladanian Tomlinson went from being a Pro Bowler to a fringe player in one season. Larry Johnson did the same. Haslem was a solid player in the past, but he's not now. Whether it's regression or just a long slump, he's not playing well right now and shouldn't be put in the position to take that shot.

Even a declining Haslem should be able to make an open shot that he's made consistently for his entire career. Spoelstra wouldn't have put him in that position to set the screen if he didn't believe he was capable of making a shot like that.

You don't get it. The only change LeBron made in his game was passing to Haslem on the last play. Throughout the fourth quarter LeBron was doing exactly what he should have done at the end - taking over the game. Taking on double teams, getting to the basket, making jumpers.

Passing isn't a change for LeBron (particularly out of double teams). He does it frequently and successfully every game and was doing it successfuly against Utah as well. The great thing about him is that he can take over the game through multiple facets (scoring, playmaking, defense, rebounding) and that's exactly what he was doing that night.

[Jim Jones]

Your idiocy is giving me a headache and I now realize that repeating the same factual, statistical data has no effect on your sound "uhh durrr he was good two years ago" argument, so I'm not going to bother to reply to anything but this:

A statistic from only 30+ games doesn't really tell me much about anything, especially when it doesn't differentiate between a wide open jump shot and a contested one.

The statistic tells you he's probably going to miss the shot. He missed the shot. Not just any shot, but a shot that was apparently uncontested and as "wide open as it gets". See, the stats don't lie, do they?

Are you just trolling now? Is this real life? I'm confused and scared and worried all at the same time.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

Your idiocy is giving me a headache and I now realize that repeating the same factual, statistical data has no effect on your sound "uhh durrr he was good two years ago" argument, so I'm not going to bother to reply to anything but this:

I'm not the guy who is criticizing LeBron James for a perfectly sound basketball play (when the only other choice would have been to take a contested shot at the buzzer that he's failed at repeatedly in his career) or citing meaninglessly small sample sizes as justification for believing a NBA player can't make a wide open jump shot.

The statistic tells you he's probably going to miss the shot. He missed the shot. Not just any shot, but a shot that was apparently uncontested and as "wide open as it gets". See, the stats don't lie, do they?

No, all it tells you that that over 30 games this season Udonis Haslem has been poor from that range. It doesn't tell you anything about the situations those shots were taken in or that he's made a career out of making such shots with consistency when open.

Are you just trolling now? Is this real life? I'm confused and scared and worried all at the same time.

No, trolling was when you entered the Jose Bautista thread to claim that he took steroids without any evidence or reason to make such a claim. This is defending a good basketball play and a good basketball player from those who are just reaching for ways to criticize him.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I'm not the guy who is criticizing LeBron James for a perfectly sound basketball play (when the only other choice would have been to take a contested shot at the buzzer that he's failed at repeatedly in his career) or citing meaninglessly small sample sizes as justification for believing a NBA player can't make a wide open jump shot.

In and of itself, passing out of a double team to let a teammate shoot a jumper might be a sound basketball play, but the best player in the world passing up the last shot attempt of the game to let a guy 39% shooter put up a 20-foot jumper is not a sound basketball decision.

No, all it tells you that that over 30 games this season Udonis Haslem has been poor from that range. It doesn't tell you anything about the situations those shots were taken in or that he's made a career out of making such shots with consistency when open.

Thank god you aren't GM of the Royals. Our lineup would be filled with guys like Manny Ramirez and Jim Thome because they were good a few years ago. You probably think Ken Griffey Jr. has a 30 homer season left in him, don't you? Why the hell did he retire so early? Are you expecting an MVP campaign from Derek Jeter this year?

No, trolling was when you entered the Jose Bautista thread to claim that he took steroids without any evidence or reason to make such a claim. This is defending a good basketball play and a good basketball player from those who are just reaching for ways to criticize him.

Still don't believe I'm wrong about that.

[kcxiv]

Some dudes will just not give in, no matter how wrong they are. lol Just let it go Jim! I actually perfer he just defer the ball to someone else. lol



Kobe-im upset i didnt get to face the challenge! lol

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

In and of itself, passing out of a double team to let a teammate shoot a jumper might be a sound basketball play, but the best player in the world passing up the last shot attempt of the game to let a guy 39% shooter put up a 20-foot jumper is not a sound basketball decision.

I'll take a wide open jump shot from a NBA player who's proven he can hit such a shot over a much more difficult, lower percentage, contested jump shot any time regardless of who is taking it.

NBA fans still aren't used to a superstar that passes as often and as well as LeBron does. Perhaps they never will be.

Thank god you aren't GM of the Royals. Our lineup would be filled with guys like Manny Ramirez and Jim Thome because they were good a few years ago. You probably think Ken Griffey Jr. has a 30 homer season left in him, don't you? Why the hell did he retire so early? Are you expecting an MVP campaign from Derek Jeter this year?

I'm just the type of manager that trusts in my star catcher to call the right pitch at the end of the game.

Jim Thome is still good, by the way. He had a near .850 OPS last season following a 1.039 OPS season in 2010. The Royals could use a hitter like that. Pretty much every team could.

Still don't believe I'm wrong about that.

You've shown yourself to be the kind of person that believes in things regardless of reason or legitimate evidence, so yes, I'm sure you still do.