PBS Vietnam War Documentary

[gblowfish]

Anybody catch the first episode last night? Interesting background on Ho Chi Mihn. I knew some of that back story, but not all of it. The French are total assholes. I can see why the Vietnamese people hated them. Actually, my French Teacher at Mizzou was a Vietnamese guy in a wheelchair who had fought for South Vietnam in the war. He was fluent in French because his father worked for the French in Saigon.

Next chapter is on tonight. One of the American Soldiers they talked to who was a Marine went to my High School (Van Horn) in Independence.

[Easy 6]

Sorry I missed this thread, gb... will be adding to it in-depth when I can

Upon half a second viewing of tonights episode, I can see Burns politics at play in the narrative... but theres just not enough time to do it justice tonight

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Luke Atamadong

You think Ken is anti-american biased? Or anti-American military?
I'm not challenging you, I'm just curious.

Not the person you asked, but I think Ken would proudly admit to being a New Deal socialist and beyond nonracist to social justice antiracist [ie, equality of outcome advocate].

And he thinks that the parts of American history that aren't actively pursuing/progressing in those areas are universally 'dark times'

[Easy 6]

Watching Hal Moores interview after Ia Drang for the second time tonight doesnt get any easier... the 7th Cav outnumbered 7-1, and still he brought the majority of them through it

This short poem from an NVA is blunt and haunting as well

'The crab lies still on the chopping block, never knowing when the knife will fall'

[stumppy]

What a senseless waist of lives. Watching this series just pisses me off. **** Kennedy and **** Johnson. I hope they're both rotting in hell.

[EPodolak]

The doc mentions discussion of the war has gone silent in recent years. Hadn't thought much about it, but it's true. Seems like the same conversation, with the same divisions carries on, now we just have a thousand proxy topics that survey the same basics.

[OldSchool]

Yeah, I had several family members who fought in that war. One still has shrapnel in him.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by stumppy

What a senseless waist of lives. Watching this series just pisses me off. **** Kennedy and **** Johnson. I hope they're both rotting in hell.

It was a different era. The majority of people in the USA were genuinely scared of communism becoming global. They viewed the threat on the same level as Nazis but the Nazi's have nuclear weapons.

Once the public saw on TV what we were doing to "protect" us from the threat. Saw the dead bodies coming back, the lies they were told about the war, our society changed for the better.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by srvy

What happened to those letters have they since been released? For someone who didnt want communism he sure did embrace it.

No. He was never a "true" communist. He was an opportunist, and played the game necessary to get Russian/Chinese support.

That war was just a terrible, terrible mistake from every possible point of view. Not just blood and treasure, but strategically and in every other way you can possibly think of. A terrible, terrible misjudgment by America's leaders at that point in time.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

Watching Hal Moores interview after Ia Drang for the second time tonight doesnt get any easier... the 7th Cav outnumbered 7-1, and still he brought the majority of them through it

This short poem from an NVA is blunt and haunting as well

'The crab lies still on the chopping block, never knowing when the knife will fall'

In Congressional testimony supporting Truman's firing of MacArthur, General Omar Bradley, then the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, expressly (and famously) stated that MacArthur's inclination to go to war with China was "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with the wrong enemy".

It is completely lamentable that our leaders barely a generation later were incapable of applying that same logic. South Vietnam was NOT South Korea, and that entire war was massively misguided. The absolute and unquestionable proof of that can be found in just looking at Vietnam now. While hardly a paragon of democracy or human rights, it is certainly no threat to us, nor has it ever been. We went to war and, sadly, many lost their lives or were wounded for nothing.

[stumppy]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

It was a different era. The majority of people in the USA were genuinely scared of communism becoming global. They viewed the threat on the same level as Nazis but the Nazi's have nuclear weapons.

Once the public saw on TV what we were doing to "protect" us from the threat. Saw the dead bodies coming back, the lies they were told about the war, our society changed for the better.

I know, I was born in 62'. I think what pisses me off the most is how much getting reelected played in the decisions they made.

[stumppy]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

No. He was never a "true" communist. He was an opportunist, and played the game necessary to get Russian/Chinese support.

That war was just a terrible, terrible mistake from every possible point of view. Not just blood and treasure, but strategically and in every other way you can possibly think of. A terrible, terrible misjudgment by America's leaders at that point in time.

Something I didn't realize until I began watching this series.

[gblowfish]

The South Vietnamese Government being completely corrupt didn't help matters. We've had that same problem currently in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I was in grade school and junior high during the entire Vietnam Era. I had to register for the draft, but the war ended when I was a Freshman in High School. On our street, two brothers from a house up the block from mine were both drafted. Both came back wounded, ****ed up both physically and mentally. Both ended up being VA cases, I think both ended up being homeless dudes.

[Rain Man]

The line was really interesting where Westmoreland said, "We're killing them at a 10 to 1 ratio"," and the Senator replied, "The people don't care about the ten, they care about the one." Pretty astute, and it shows how things had changed since WWII. It was perhaps the first of the modern wars in terms of philosophy and strategy.

[gblowfish]

Oh, and I'm pretty sure "Moggie" is dead meat.

[eDave]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

My wife mentioned it, and I caught part of it last night since Monday Night Football didn't sound exciting. I found the music scores to be kind of odd, and they didn't seem to match the video, and honestly I thought the flow of the episode was also kind of choppy. But there was some good information and learning, since I knew little about the pre-buildup period of American involvement.

The music scores had a Social Network vibe, I thought. I liked it myself. I agree with your other assessments.