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Old 12-17-2019, 09:46 PM  
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Star Wars Episode IX - SPOILER THREAD
Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker had its premiere last night at the Dolby Theater in Hollywood. Non-Spoiler reviews and Twitter mentions are trickling out and they're overwhelmingly positive.

I'll be seeing the film Thursday night, 6:30pm PST but I'm not sure if I'll have time to post because we're traveling for the holidays, leaving at 4am the next morning. If I can't post Thursday evening, I'll get to it at some point over the weekend, maybe after I've seen it a second time.

It's a Spoiler thread but let's try to keep the real spoilery stuff in the Spoiler Tags through the weekend, just so we don't ruin the movie for someone that accidentally clicks on the thread.

Let's hear it!
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Old 12-30-2019, 12:07 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by Hammock Parties View Post
In the established context of the Star Wars galaxy, yes, Palpatine ****ing and also losing track of his offspring...doesn't sound believable to me.

At all.

At the very least, he'd just kill them. His son apparently didn't even have force powers? Even more unbelievable.
Poe Dameron's mother had Force Powers: Poe has none.

I don't think it's ever been made Canon that the only way to have Force Powers is to inherit them through a parent.

On the contrary, Finn's Force Sensitivity seems to stem from a belief in The Force, much like Luke in A New Hope.

Personally, I liked RJ's "Democratization" of The Force.
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Old 12-30-2019, 12:10 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Hammock Parties View Post
In the established context of the Star Wars galaxy, yes, Palpatine ****ing and also losing track of his offspring...doesn't sound believable to me.
Vader interrogated Princess Leia on the Death Star and had no idea that she was his daughter.

Vader was a few meters from Luke in A New Hope and had no idea that he was his son and was actively trying to kill him as he was flying over the Death Star.

The Jedi Council routinely met with Palpatine in his chambers and had no idea he was a Sith Lord, including Yoda.

I don't think that Force powers have been clearly defined as of yet.
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Old 12-30-2019, 12:13 PM   #243
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Hell, add to that, we're still finding out what it means to be a Mandalorian!
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Old 12-30-2019, 12:28 PM   #244
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Maybe not in the movies but in the Clone Wars series, the Sith were definitely family. Mother Talzin, a Sith Witch, helped to heal Darth Maul's mind and created his new legs using Sith Black Magic.

She also imbibed Maul's brother Savage Oppress (dumbest name in the Star Wars Universe, for my money, anyway), with Sith powers.

While I understand that there are several concepts introduced in this film that at first mention or first thought don't make sense or don't have a foundation in the movies, the foundation does exist in other Star Wars media that has been made Canon since George sold it to Disney.

As I mentioned earlier, there have been calls for Lucasfilm to include the EU or at least aspects of the EU and for whatever reason, Abrams and Terrio listened to those voices and made them a part of this film.

Now, that doesn't mean that anyone has to like it, of course, but many of the complaints are based in the EU, even RJ's Force Astral Projection Luke was a Jedi power that appeared in the old EU.
Talzin was a Nightsister. Not Sith, even though she used dark force powers. She actually fought against the Sith. That's completely different.
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Old 12-30-2019, 12:45 PM   #245
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Talzin was a Nightsister. Not Sith, even though she used dark force powers. She actually fought against the Sith. That's completely different.
She worked in concert with Sidious and as a Nightsister, knew of the Sith ways. She turned on Sidious when he took her son, Maul. But that's a different story.

Palpatine knew of his son and didn't murder him until he refused to turn over his grandaughter. So the idea that he would just "kill" his family members for no reason has no basis at this point in time.

The fact of the matter is that there is very little information available about the Sith and to just say "I don't find it believable" is an opinion, not a fact.

I personally don't find it "believable" that a man that rules a galaxy doesn't have any concubines. He IS a man, at least given his description in the Star War data bank and as far as we know, there's no rule preventing Sith from bearing children or having attachments or sex.

I've provided a few examples of powerful Force users that have no idea that their children are present, right in front of them. Snoke/Sidious had no idea who "The Girl" was in TFA, nor did he realize that Kylo Ren and Rey Palpatine were a "Force Dyad" until he had them in his grip.

To me, it's fairly evident that neither the Sith nor the Jedi or Omniscient.
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Old 12-30-2019, 01:37 PM   #246
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I'm just saying that parenting isn't a common trait among Sith. They're typically very selfish and cruel, obsessing over power and distrustful of everyone. Not a lot of family tales involving Sith.
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Old 12-30-2019, 01:40 PM   #247
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On the contrary, Finn's Force Sensitivity seems to stem from a belief in The Force, much like Luke in A New Hope.
You're better than this.
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:28 PM   #248
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You're better than this.
I'm just calling it as I see it.

I really couldn't care less about Finn. I don't even know what purpose his character serves and if he was completely wiped from this sequel trilogy, would it even matter? Would anything change?

From my perspective, the answer is no.
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:31 PM   #249
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I'm just saying that parenting isn't a common trait among Sith. They're typically very selfish and cruel, obsessing over power and distrustful of everyone.
I totally get that but once it was confirmed that he was alive, Darth Vader scoured the galaxy for his son.

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Not a lot of family tales involving Sith.
Not yet, anyway.
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Old 12-30-2019, 04:28 PM   #250
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All the mental gymnastics are kind of pointless. The only real reason for it is that JJ decided that was how he was going to retcon her origin.

I think it's kind of silly and any number of alternatives would have been better for me. I still like the idea of Satine keeping a child secret from Obi-wan, creating potential for a Kenobi grandchild. Or Ezra and Sabine. Or pretty much any two characters not named Palpatine.

Abrams went for too many moments that were cool from the perspective of a 40+ year old who'd lived their entire lives fantasizing about the SW universe, moments that made no sense in the context of a new movie trilogy with new characters. Too much was tied to the original trilogy, and not much really survives even a cursory examination of the plot, themes, events or motivations of the final trilogy or the characters within.

That's the main issue I have with episode 9 (and 8 and 7...).

But maybe it wasn't ever possible to really do it right.
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Old 12-30-2019, 05:59 PM   #251
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Old 12-30-2019, 07:38 PM   #252
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I totally get that but once it was confirmed that he was alive, Darth Vader scoured the galaxy for his son.



Not yet, anyway.
Soooo...are you saying we might be getting a series about the Sith? That would be awesome.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:03 PM   #253
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Soooo...are you saying we might be getting a series about the Sith? That would be awesome.
No, it was a joke since there are two series set to debut in 2021, with more in development.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:04 PM   #254
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All the mental gymnastics are kind of pointless. The only real reason for it is that JJ decided that was how he was going to retcon her origin.

I think it's kind of silly and any number of alternatives would have been better for me. I still like the idea of Satine keeping a child secret from Obi-wan, creating potential for a Kenobi grandchild. Or Ezra and Sabine. Or pretty much any two characters not named Palpatine.

Abrams went for too many moments that were cool from the perspective of a 40+ year old who'd lived their entire lives fantasizing about the SW universe, moments that made no sense in the context of a new movie trilogy with new characters. Too much was tied to the original trilogy, and not much really survives even a cursory examination of the plot, themes, events or motivations of the final trilogy or the characters within.

That's the main issue I have with episode 9 (and 8 and 7...).

But maybe it wasn't ever possible to really do it right.
It's called damage control.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:17 PM   #255
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Lucas always said the main character in all the stories was Darth Vader. He was totally absent in these last 3 tho and I’d make the argument Palpatine is now the stories main character
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