Should the Chiefs have drafted Watson over Mahomes?

[Deberg_1990]

Another strong game today for Watson. 3 TDs against the Titans so far.

Kid just seems to have 'It'.

Discuss.....

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DRM08

Watson still had plenty of chances to keep that game competitive. If the roles were reversed, Mahomes would not have lost by 20 after leading by 24.

Same thing that has me scratching my head in the Peyton vs. Brees debates. Brees NEVER takes shit for the number of god-awful playoff losses he has. He always gets a pass for some late-game catastrophe that wasn't of his making, but the 3 or 4 unproductive drives that led up to it sure were.

You stack the post-season performances of Manning and Brees side by side and they're really comparable. But Peyton gets labeled a choker while people call Brees unlucky. Doesn't seem rooted in fact to me. Watson's 2019 effort vs. the Colts was straight out of the Alex Smith 'dink and run' playbook (a post-season butthole pucker to say the least for a guy who's game is built around attacking downfield) and the Texans collapse against KC was made possible by Watson's inability to seize back any momentum.

Like I said - I just don't think Watson is as good as some say he is. Fine player who will have a very good career and will spend most of it as a top 10 QB in this league. But he's more than likely going to be forgotten to history...because he probably should be.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Same thing that has me scratching my head in the Peyton vs. Brees debates. Brees NEVER takes shit for the number of god-awful playoff losses he has. He always gets a pass for some late-game catastrophe that wasn't of his making, but the 3 or 4 unproductive drives that led up to it sure were.

You stack the post-season performances of Manning and Brees side by side and they're really comparable. But Peyton gets labeled a choker while people call Brees unlucky. Doesn't seem rooted in fact to me. Watson's 2019 effort vs. the Colts was straight out of the Alex Smith 'dink and run' playbook (a post-season butthole pucker to say the least for a guy who's game is built around attacking downfield) and the Texans collapse against KC was made possible by Watson's inability to seize back any momentum.

Like I said - I just don't think Watson is as good as some say he is. Fine player who will have a very good career and will spend most of it as a top 10 QB in this league. But he's more than likely going to be forgotten to history...because he probably should be.

The Peyton thing is probably because he was maybe the best regular season QB ever. We saw how valuable he was when he got injured and the Colts completely fell apart. Meanwhile Brady goes down and the Patriots still have a very good record with Cassle. Or the Saints recently with Bridgewater instead of Brees. Or even the Chiefs last year with a very competitive team led by Matt Moore.

In the playoffs, Peyton ran into Belichick & Brady. Struggled a lot with them early in his career. Plus he was not very good in the playoffs for both of his championship seasons. Brother Eli seemed to be a bigger factor in his team’s playoff success.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DRM08

The Peyton thing is probably because he was maybe the best regular season QB ever. We saw how valuable he was when he got injured and the Colts completely fell apart. Meanwhile Brady goes down and the Patriots still have a very good record with Cassle. Or the Saints recently with Bridgewater instead of Brees. Or even the Chiefs last year with a very competitive team led by Matt Moore.

In the playoffs, Peyton ran into Belichick & Brady. Struggled a lot with them early in his career. Plus he was not very good in the playoffs for both of his championship seasons. Brother Eli seemed to be a bigger factor in his team’s playoff success.

But can't you also make a really good argument that Brees is the best regular season QB ever?

The Bridgewater/Brees thing is essentially late-stage Brees - or the same thing we saw when the Broncos did most of the heavy lifting in their Super Bowl run with Osweiler instead of Manning.

It just seems to me that any attempts at drawing a distinction between the two are largely because Brees has just been a bit less of a goober and a little more likeable throughout his career. And it should be even more damning for Brees because he DIDN'T have to get through Tom Brady every season.

[DJ's left nut]

Seriously - look at his run from 2008 through 2016

That's a nine year run where he AVERAGED 5,000 passing yards and 37 scores/season. There have been twelve 5,000 yard seasons in league history and Brees has five of them. And if you era-adjust it, in his last 5k yard season (2016) he'd turned the trick for the 5th time - the rest of the league had done it 4 times in league history combined.

So as his prime ended, he had more 5K yard passing seasons than every other quarterback in league history put together.

He's the career leader in passing yards and passing touchdowns and is 3rd all time in Quarterback rating.

I mean it's REALLY hard to argue that he hasn't been the best regular season quarterback of all time. Dude has practically re-written the record book.

[carcosa]

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis

He's not. No one will in the AFC as long as the Chiefs have Mahomes.

THATS RIGHT!!!!

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

But can't you also make a really good argument that Brees is the best regular season QB ever?

The Bridgewater/Brees thing is essentially late-stage Brees - or the same thing we saw when the Broncos did most of the heavy lifting in their Super Bowl run with Osweiler instead of Manning.

It just seems to me that any attempts at drawing a distinction between the two are largely because Brees has just been a bit less of a goober and a little more likeable throughout his career. And it should be even more damning for Brees because he DIDN'T have to get through Tom Brady every season.

I think that is why Brees gets more of a pass. You go against Brady & Belichick, it is the biggest stage possible. Nobody really cares if you lose to the Vikings.

Brees is still performing at an extremely high level. Very high passer rating last year. I think Sean Payton doesn’t get enough credit. They plugged in Bridgewater and there wasn’t a noticeable difference.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Seriously - look at his run from 2008 through 2016

That's a nine year run where he AVERAGED 5,000 passing yards and 37 scores/season. There have been twelve 5,000 yard seasons in league history and Brees has five of them. And if you era-adjust it, in his last 5k yard season (2016) he'd turned the trick for the 5th time - the rest of the league had done it 4 times in league history combined.

So as his prime ended, he had more 5K yard passing seasons than every other quarterback in league history put together.

He's the career leader in passing yards and passing touchdowns and is 3rd all time in Quarterback rating.

I mean it's REALLY hard to argue that he hasn't been the best regular season quarterback of all time. Dude has practically re-written the record book.

Dome stadium and pretty good weather in their division. They play at least 9 games in domes every year when you include the trip to Atlanta. Tend to think this helps inflate the stats. Sean Payton is a hell of a coach/schemer as well.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DRM08

Dome stadium and pretty good weather in their division. They play at least 9 games in domes every year when you include the trip to Atlanta. Tend to think this helps inflate the stats. Sean Payton is a hell of a coach/schemer as well.

Manning played in the RCA dome and Lucas Oil stadium with the Colts (also a dome). Also got a dome game against the Texans and fair weather in Jacksonville/TN in the AFC South. There's effectively no difference there.

Again - just saying that there really are not that many differences between the two. The Sean Payton thing is fair to point out - but if we're gonna talk about what happens w/ X element removed, how about the fact that Brees threw for 5,200 yards and 43 scores the year that Payton was barred from team activities?

Brees deserves far more credit AND far more shit than he gets. He deserves to be considered at least Mannings regular season equal and probably his superior. He also deserves to be at least as big a post-season choker and probably a bigger one.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Manning played in the RCA dome and Lucas Oil stadium with the Colts (also a dome). Also got a dome game against the Texans and fair weather in Jacksonville/TN in the AFC South. There's effectively no difference there.

Again - just saying that there really are not that many differences between the two. The Sean Payton thing is fair to point out - but if we're gonna talk about what happens w/ X element removed, how about the fact that Brees threw for 5,200 yards and 43 scores the year that Payton was barred from team activities?

Brees deserves far more credit AND far more shit than he gets. He deserves to be considered at least Mannings regular season equal and probably his superior. He also deserves to be at least as big a post-season choker and probably a bigger one.

In a season where Brees had an extremely high passer rating, they plugged Bridgewater in there and kept rolling. Hell, Bridgewater had their most impressive win of the season: blowout on the road against Wilson & Seattle.

When Manning went down with the Colts? They became the worst team in the league overnight after being a consistent winner. That is where the Sean Payton factor has to be considered. The Colts were completely screwed without Manning. Not the case for the Saints because of Sean Payton.

[DaneMcCloud]

Payton and the Saints screwed up by choosing Lattimore over Watson.

Lattimore's been a fine corner but Watson and Payton could have kept their train rolling for at least another decade.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DRM08

In a season where Brees had an extremely high passer rating, they plugged Bridgewater in there and kept rolling. Hell, Bridgewater had their most impressive win of the season: blowout on the road against Wilson & Seattle.

When Manning went down with the Colts? They became the worst team in the league overnight after being a consistent winner. That is where the Sean Payton factor has to be considered. The Colts were completely screwed without Manning. Not the case for the Saints because of Sean Payton.

It's fair to note that Curtis Painter was never an NFL caliber QB and Kerry Collins was WELL past his sell-by date.

Dan Orlovsky, who was a credible backup and still had some life left in him, went 2-3 in the 5 games he started.

Teddy Bridgewater is a far FAR better quarterback than Curtis Painter or even Orlovsky. And he wasn't leading a team that knew it's season was effectively over - the Saints knew the cavalry was coming whereas the Colts were walking dead.

In a team sport that mindset is crucial. The Colts wholly embraced 'suck for luck' almost immediately. The Saints, OTOH, played their asses off around Bridgewater.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Payton and the Saints screwed up by choosing Lattimore over Watson.

Lattimore's been a fine corner but Watson and Payton could have kept their train rolling for at least another decade.

Pretty good point.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Payton and the Saints screwed up by choosing Lattimore over Watson.

Lattimore's been a fine corner but Watson and Payton could have kept their train rolling for at least another decade.

That would have been fun. Mahomes would have gotten to beat him multiple times in the SB.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's fair to note that Curtis Painter was never an NFL caliber QB and Kerry Collins was WELL past his sell-by date.

Dan Orlovsky, who was a credible backup and still had some life left in him, went 2-3 in the 5 games he started.

Teddy Bridgewater is a far FAR better quarterback than Curtis Painter or even Orlovsky. And he wasn't leading a team that knew it's season was effectively over - the Saints knew the cavalry was coming whereas the Colts were walking dead.

In a team sport that mindset is crucial. The Colts wholly embraced 'suck for luck' almost immediately. The Saints, OTOH, played their asses off around Bridgewater.

I am curious about those losing seasons during Drew’s prime. They had a poor defense, but that is not a great excuse when you look at the 2018 Chiefs. One of the worst defenses ever and lost a conference title game in overtime.

[smithandrew051]

You could pretty much cancel the NFC for the next 15 years had the Saints been able to draft Mahomes.

Instead, you can go ahead and cancel the AFC as long as Mahomes is wearing a Chiefs jersey.