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Old 01-27-2017, 08:06 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread
My as well get it started. Here's my "Matheny" lineup.....

Fowler CF
Diaz SS
Carpenter 1B
Piscotty RF
Grichuk LF
Molina C
Peralta 3B
Wong 2B
Pitcher

My "Matheny" Starting rotation

Martinez
Reyes
Wainwright
Lynn
Leake
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Old 12-19-2017, 04:44 PM   #1891
VAChief VAChief is offline
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I am pretty content with the lineup currently. Only thing I'd want an upgrade on would be someone who can split time with DeJong at SS and play adequate defense and offense.

Gyorko doesn't really need anyone like that. I am starting to believe Wong doesn't either.

I still don't like Grichuk, but him as a 4th OF is perfectly fine.
Grichuk as a 4th outfielder gives you versatility in late inning switches. I suppose Bader and O’Neill could also, but I think defensively Grichuk is the most versatile.

Right now if nothing changes I think we likely have Martinez, Garcia, Kelly, and whoever wins the true 4th outfielder derby among Grichuk/Bader/O’Neill if they start the year with 13 pitchers.

We had an awful roster leaving spring training last year. Martinez as the only extra outfielder along with the Matt Adams experiment.
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:23 PM   #1892
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is offline
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Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Aren't places are projecting him for 150 PAs?

Don't know. Have the projections caught up to him signing with an AL team?

He wants to hit. If he hits well enough, they could get him 3 days a week at DH in addition to letting him hit on days he pitches.

That would put him in range to pick up about 400 ABs. All will come down to how well he hits, I think.

I'm also intrigued by the idea of them going to a six-man rotation. Seems like the extra position depth you pick up by having Otani able to hit would make it possible.

Of course, it would be nice to have a more versatile guy than Cron as your backup 1B/DH in that situation...
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:33 PM   #1893
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Molina should never, ever ,ever hit in front of the pitcher. How successful is he going to be lumbering down to second on a sac bunt from the pitcher? If you hit Wong 8th, then when he gets on, he has the speed to potentially steal a base, and if not, he won't get gunned down on anything but a perfectly placed bunt.

Hit him seventh and that problem largely goes away.
I like 7th too.

Carp
Pham
Fowler
Ozuna
Gyrko
Dejong
Molina
Wong
P
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Old 12-19-2017, 08:41 PM   #1894
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"Still"

Never even knew they were involved in the first place. Would have to imagine that they would have to have a sign and trade in place before making that trade because they dont have minor league pieces to make it happen.
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:17 PM   #1895
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:19 PM   #1896
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Dont see it happening. The Cubs would have to give up core MLB players to make it work and that wouldnt happen without an extension in place which is something that Machado's agent said wont happen and the Orioles aren't allowing 72 hour windows to talk to him.
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:21 PM   #1897
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I know. Cards aren't competing this year, so you can give up whatever for a rental.
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:28 PM   #1898
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Cant say I wouldnt be tempted if it only took Russell from the MLB roster + whoever in the minors to make it happen, though. Get Machado for at least a year and if he doesnt re-sign then you move Baez over to SS and open up a spot for Happ at 2B.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:10 AM   #1899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Molina should never, ever ,ever hit in front of the pitcher. How successful is he going to be lumbering down to second on a sac bunt from the pitcher? If you hit Wong 8th, then when he gets on, he has the speed to potentially steal a base, and if not, he won't get gunned down on anything but a perfectly placed bunt.

Hit him seventh and that problem largely goes away.
I know that's always a concern of Dan and Al but I think it's wildly overblown.

Cardinals pitchers executed 33 successful sacrifice bunts last year. Now lets make some assumptions that are slanted 'your' way here and assume that they were successful 80% of the time (far more than average, but again - assumptions in your favor). That's 41 total bunt attempts. Now let's also say that with Molina there they'd only be successful, I dunno, 20% of the time. So we'll say 10 bunts are successful instead of 33.

So that's 23 times a runner has made it over a base ahead of Carpenter/Fowler. Let's assume they're ALL with nobody out so you get 2 shots at getting that runner in and we'll say both hitters are .285 hitters - again, wildly overstating things.

That's about 11 'additional' times Wong scores over Molina given those extremely slanted assumptions. More realistically we're probably talking 7-8.

Now offset that by the number of runs that Wong can score from the 7 hole on a double by Molina due to his speed (and Molina's a nice doubles hitter when he's right). Or the number of times he can go from 1st to 3rd due to a Molina single and then score off a pitcher sac fly or some kind of safety/suicide squeeze; something that is unlikely to happen if the roles are reversed. Or the fact that Wong could still run from the 7 hole knowing that if he's thrown out, he hasn't sabotaged the inning by getting thrown out ahead of the pitcher so he can steal an additional run or two that way.

Additionally, each spot in the batting order is about 15-20 additional PAs and I'd rather see Wong get those. Finally, there's the advantage of further spreading your lefties. If you have Wong batting 8, a manager goes to his lefty, gets Wong out, doesn't care about picking off the opposing pitcher and leaves the lefty in to face Carpenter so you face a tactical disadvantage as well.

Ultimately I think Wong is the better offensive player and his versatility ahead of Molina's bat control is worth a fair amount of offense. I think it more than offsets the handful of runs that you may lose by having a more difficult bunt play.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:52 AM   #1900
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:53 AM   #1901
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Good.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:01 AM   #1902
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And there was much rejoicing...
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:12 AM   #1903
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:12 AM   #1904
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In related news, I realized last night who Gyorko's swing reminds me of. It's going to sound blasphemous and trust me, I realize this.

I was watching GIFs of his swing and I noticed that very strong top hand, extremely quiet but powerful lower half and a bit of a truncated follow through. Then I saw the HR he hit off Jeanmar Gomez to tie it in the 9th and it hit me:




This one really solidified it:




That remind anyone of anything?

Spoiler!


I'm not saying he's as good. But he has a similar swing and similar approach. He's not as strong because NOBODY is that strong. But he also plays defense the same way - a very utilitarian approach. Nothing terribly pretty about it, but Rolen played the corner through a complete lack of fear and a cannon. Obviously Gyorko lacks that arm but a lot of his movements and mechanics over there are similar.

Gyorko is very much a poor man's Rolen. There are far worse things to have over there.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:13 AM   #1905
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I'm really glad this happened. Longoria seemed to be an option to make a move just to make a move. Too costly and his no trade would've been a killer later on.

Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times reports that the Rays have traded Evan Longoria to the Giants.

Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports says the Rays will receive third base prospect Christian Arroyo, veteran outfielder Denard Span, and minor league pitchers Matt Krook and Stephen Woods. Outside of the Span throw-in this is a decent haul for the Rays, given that Longoria is owed $86 million and hasn't posted an on-base percentage north of .328 since the 2013 season. Maybe the 32-year-old can bounce back offensively in a new environment, but San Francisco is a tough place for such an attempt.
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